Philly Con reports...????

[langur88]

Dave:

Nothing valid and tunnel vision. I guess you don't know that I have some knowledge of the convention business when I was working for Vinny who was an original owner of Big Apple. I do know something about the "finances" involved in running a show and what the profit margins on a show are. It's a lot of work for not a lot of money.

 

Let's see, I don't do your show based on business decisions.

 

Just so you know here is how I would classify a show and base my decisions

Grade A = Good buying and selling

Grade B = Bad buying and good selling.

Grade C = Good buying and bad selling

Grade D = Bad buying and selling but lots of inquiries/negotiation/few sales***

Grade F = Bad buying and selling without nobody to negotiate with

 

***Generally a show where I have to look that maybe I brought the wrong inventory. Now while Detroit has always been a weak market but I did a 50% off sale at the show and did very well. However, at some other shows it didn't matter what I brought to the show.

 

I have all my sales tracked by show. I give promoters more than a few chances before I base a decision not to do the show again. Boston show sales were sliding and I basically made a business decision. In addition I look at driving 4-5 hours up and 4-5 hours back. My prices may be a factor but I can't negotiate a lower price if there is nobody in front of the table looking for my type of material.

 

Dave, I don't see you as a Promoter. You are a dealer (primary focus) who runs local shows.

 

I also feel that there are very few "Promoters" who are well capitalized to put on a Comic show. Or know where advertising dollars can be best spent that will bring in buyers. Or understand the demographics of buyers who may need babysitting, things for the kids to do while Daddy shops etc.

 

Will a "cheap" show be a good show? I do very few local shows because they are cheap. Cheap doesn't always go in the same sentence as High grade or buyers with money. Is your mailing list more extensive than Mike's? Will you be bringing in those international buyers, out of town buyers for a one day show? Except for the drive I'm looking at the same numbers as a Boston show.

 

Bob, all I see is a lot of opinions stated as facts. No answers or substance. Your psychic predictions of sales are also interesting. If you can read the future why not just buy a lottery ticket? Substitute "less expensive" for cheap if it has a different meaning for you. I also do not understand why when I ask about New York you answer about Boston buyers. Classic misdirection. These are unrelated places, times and events. My mailing list contains comic book collectors. If you had such a great customer base you could tell them all to see you at the show because they are all such big spenders and admission is only five dollars! Your site states that Philly was great in 2005 but terrible now.Which is it? Read your post again. The promoter should provide daycare for elitist high grade comic book buyers? Why don't you lower your prices to market instead of speculative and maybe they will buy? Its not the promoters job to stroke your customers. Its yours. Please come down from your high horse and blame yourself for your own failures once in a while. You moaned at the Big Apple too. And Philly. But too busy for New York Comic-Con. Was that the promoters fault too? Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Do you ever have a good show that does not involve pillaging a new collection or selling at 50% off? Name one. How many are ever "good" shows for you? One a year? Two? Look in the mirror.

 

I am a promoter. I run comic book and record shows in five states. Collectors and real fans like them. Shysters, speculators and the easy money guys do not. I work harder than you could possibly imagine. I do it with my wife and family, not a team of unpaid volunteers. If my family of six had to live off comic book sales we would starve. Don't worry about my finances, Bob. I live on a half million dollar property by the Merrimack River. Not invested in two dollies of comic boxes.

 

I have always liked comics and people who like comics. Unfortunately there are too many people in the business who could care less about comics except as a means to the almighty dollar and a way to stroke their own egos. The faster that these people move on to coins, stamps or baseball cards the better.

[FlyingDonut]

Nobody says, I found a mid grade 60s DC Collection woo hoo!!!!

 

hey now!

[jkrk]

First of all I would like to thank, two dealers, Bob and Dave who are willing to participate on this forum despite the :"herd mentality" that will challange some of their ideas. They are first class professionals. It was also interesting to read footkillers views and seeing the responses. I found the exchanges interesting and somewhat informative.

 

I haven't attended a covention in awhile as my focal interest is to buy and sell comics. The guests are not much of a draw for me and I really am anti social so showing up in person doesn't really cut it. Besides, I would only be looking to buy very high grade GA books at 50% of guide.

 

I'm sure any promoter is looking for ideas on how to improve their convention. I'm sure any suggestions/comments will be taken into consideration and analyzed for their merits.

 

Everyone attends the conventions with different agendas. The promoter is looking to plaese fans, guests, and delaers alike. I assume dealers are looking for sales, purchases, and goodwill which lead to future sales. I aasume the dealers weigh the effort and dollars spent to attend against the rewards. The bottom line is whether dealers continue to commit to the next show. I remember selling books at a very small show in Springfield a number of years ago. The show was dreadful

in terms of attendance but low costs and one customer created a banner convention for me.

 

The fans are looking foward to the guests and the material available on the floor.

Often a few satisfactory purchases will make a "dissapointing convention" a great convention. My only anology would be the Summer Friday I go into work with low trading volume and limited volatiliy. I would be sitting around much of the day playing solitare. Then late in the day a short sharp move begins and gives me the opportunity to make a few purchases and unwind a position very profitably. You can only take advantage of the opportunity if you are involved and looking.

 

Again, I would like to thank all who participated in this thread, especially the dealers who some say avoid this board like the plague. All I can say is that comic buyers know the good guys from the bad guys and it's not the hat color that gives it away.

[blazingbob]

I do have a lot of great shows - San Diego, Wizard Chicago, Wizard LA and Toronto was a good show this year. I have had very successful Motor City Chicago shows but the hotel was torn down and the 2006 was not rescheduled. I had a very good Wizard Boston show last year and had prepaid for next year until it was cancelled for low attendance.

 

I moaned about Big Apple because it was booked as a 3 day event right after the largest NY show of the year. I wasn't at that show because I went on a belated Honeymoon. Exact quote from my site which quite frankly doesn't look like I'm blaming the organizers "I'm very sorry to have missed the 2006 show but my wife and I went on a belated honeymoon. From what I am hearing I missed a great show and look forward to attending the 2007 show".

 

We didn't speak at the end of the Philly show and I had a decent Sunday so it wasn't a terrible show, it was an ok show.

 

I have more than 2 dollies of books Dave but again feel free to continue your insults.

 

I have the same type of property and I work two jobs so spare me you work harder.

[langur88]

 

I have more than 2 dollies of books Dave but again feel free to continue your insults.

 

Where do you see insults? Don't make it personal. It's not. We can agree to disagree but don't change the direction of the thread.

 

It's a simple math problem. I missed one. 3 dollies of books. If you got a bigger dollie for that tremendous work load you could do it in one trip.

 

It is just disingenuous when you state that the shows are better without personalities and then in the same breath you state the opposite. Our New York City show had 500 comic book collectors. How many customers come for what you sell? 100? 200? 500? How many customers do you sell to at a show? 50? Did you sell a lot of high grade vintage comic books to the majority of folks that came to buy videos, newer comics, non-anal retentive graded comics that humans can read, toys, gaming, yada, yada. Or did you sell them to the small minority that you cater to? It's the total amount of comic buyers through the door that counts. Not the total admissions. A majority of the admissions at these personality driven shows laugh at the price of vintage comics. Better keep that day job.

[Foolkiller]

"Not the total admissions. A majority of the admissions at these personality driven shows laugh at the price of vintage comics."

 

Well -- it's hard to disagree with this. Still -- I think you guys are debating issues on two different wavelengths.

 

The problem is Dave, a show can have a lot of people through the door and still stink.

 

To me, from any perspective -- it was a disappointment from past WW Philly efforts.

[GACollectibles]

Please come down from your high horse and blame yourself for your own failures once in a while.

 

Might be time for you to listen to some of your own words. Focusing some of you energies into promoting the Boston show might be a good start. Plenty of comic collectors won't even come out to the show anymore because you(as the promoter) don't give them a reason to(fact, not opinion). You can continue to dismiss criticisms of the show or anyone who does not agree with you, but the fact is, there are collectors out there, they need to be attracted to the show. Comic collectors don't just include your .50/$1 book customers, they run the gamut from bargain bin divers to collectors looking to fill runs, folks looking for just older material, and yes, even "elitist high grade comic book buyers"(who are not the only ones who have kids that might need some suitable entertaining while at a show). And don't forget the creator interested customers. Come on, vendors hawking swords and knives fit the parameters of a properly promoted comic show(look no further than your avatar!)?

 

Dave, it's not always as simple as you always being right and everything you don't agree with is wrong, as a promoter it's time to step up to the plate and provide the Boston market with what it needs-a show people can get excited about! Then you can get back on your high horse!

[HouseofComics.Com]

Personally, I appreciate other aspects of what cons have to offer such as artists alley, panel discussions, collectible toys, etc... As such, I'm much less likely to be disappointed in a show because those elements of fandom (yes, a dirty word to some) appeal to me. I enjoy just being around this stuff. Clearly, wandering around not spending is not good for any of the dealers at a convention, but that's not the case with me. My collecting interests are such that I can always find more books than my budget allows. It's just a question of whether or not I'm in a spending mood.

 

Good post and I'm glad you mentioned panel discussions. Panels get almost no mention on these boards but I love them and regret having to miss out on all the Wondercon panels the past three years when we set up a booth. There were times in the years before that where I actually had a tough choice between two panels scheduled for the same time!

 

I wholeheartedly agree that promoters should be doing more to attract the hardcore back issue crowd.

 

What's an example of a way to do this? (Directed at everyone.) I mean, I can understand how to direct the advertising to reach broad divisions such as comic fans vs. anime fans vs porn fans. But how does one target the hardcore back issue crowd? Maybe Dave and Bob and Andrew can chime in here.

 

As a sidenote, who makes up this "hardcore" crowd? Maybe not exclusively the people we think. For instance, at Super-Con last month I made a sale to a guy who comes to every Steve Wyatt show and collects exclusively Uncle Scrooge, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, and Bugs Bunny related titles. Is he hardcore? He's a completist. He can spend $30 on a comic book that used to cost 10 cents. He comes to every show. But he has probably never subscribed to a comic periodical, he has never visited ebay or bought mail order, and he doesn't realize that Donald Duck 108 is different from Donald Duck Four Color 108. Yet he's the kind of guy I want shows to attract. Is he hardcore?

 

Marc

[HouseofComics.Com]

Aghh, I've waited until everyone on the east coast is in bed again.

[esquirecomics]

I have always liked comics and people who like comics. Unfortunately there are too many people in the business who could care less about comics except as a means to the almighty dollar and a way to stroke their own egos. The faster that these people move on to coins, stamps or baseball cards the better.

 

Excuse me, please not stamps. Keep them away from the stamps. They are already there in the coins and baseball card communities. Leave the poor stamps alone.

[jimm94]

I wholeheartedly agree that promoters should be doing more to attract the hardcore back issue crowd.

 

What's an example of a way to do this? (Directed at everyone.) I mean, I can understand how to direct the advertising to reach broad divisions such as comic fans vs. anime fans vs porn fans. But how does one target the hardcore back issue crowd? Maybe Dave and Bob and Andrew can chime in here.

 

Perhaps one way is to mention the attendence of both national and local dealers, if applicable, in promoting the show. i.e. "Bob Storms of highgradecomics.com is bringing his comic books to YOU!!! Don't miss this opportunity to add to your collection from his amazing inventory along with the vast selection of Golden, Silver, Bronze, and Modern age comics from all of our attending dealers! With a wide array of local and nationally known exhibitors, Jimmy-Con 2007 will be full of more great comics than you could ever hope to find in a single store. From $1.00 bargain bins to professionally graded key issues, we'll have something for everyone in the convenience of our spacious exhibit hall. Be sure to bring your want lists!" Or if a particular dealer is going to be unveiling new inventory from a recently acquired collection, find a way to promote that in advance in a way that benefits all the exhibitors. My basic idea is to make the dealers the stars of the show just as you would a headlining creator or celebrity.

 

As a sidenote, who makes up this "hardcore" crowd? Maybe not exclusively the people we think. For instance, at Super-Con last month I made a sale to a guy who comes to every Steve Wyatt show and collects exclusively Uncle Scrooge, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, and Bugs Bunny related titles. Is he hardcore? He's a completist. He can spend $30 on a comic book that used to cost 10 cents. He comes to every show. But he has probably never subscribed to a comic periodical, he has never visited ebay or bought mail order, and he doesn't realize that Donald Duck 108 is different from Donald Duck Four Color 108. Yet he's the kind of guy I want shows to attract. Is he hardcore?

 

A fair question. It could mean many things to many different people, but for the purposes of this discussion I would say it is any individual whose primary intent in attending a convention is to purchase back issue comic books.

[jbud73]

Seems to be an interesting time for conventions right now, with some new trends and/or hurdles out there for the Cons (SD and Chicago aside). As I reinterated in my earlier post, the Internet is now entrenched in the marketplace - and it ain't going anywhere. On one hand the internet's effect on conventions may have been mitigated over the past few years with the resurgence of the back issue market.

 

If the upswell plateaus, I think we have seen some evidence of that over the past 12 months, then the synergy which may have been staving off the Internet's market share of the back issue comics pie might be coming truly apparent for the first time. That is more business was moving to the internet, but the overall volume was increasing at a rate which sustained Conventions sales at their previous levels, with actual increases over the past 3-5 years.

 

Again if there is now price resistance on the part of the consumer, it very well might be that this is first realized at the convention level, which will always, by definition have a smaller pool of potential buyers.

 

Another topic that got some discussion at the previous con was the effect of Sticker Shock. That is, when the substantiated escalation in prices over the past 5 years is then added to the Convention Bump (whereby a book is jacked in anticipation of haggling to a lower consensus price) is the overall starting point scaring some customers away? I gotta admit that when I see slabbed books at priced at multiples of GPA records and raw book priced at multiples on Slabbed Prices, even on HG stuff, it really doesnt encourage me to go digging through a dealers table.

 

Hey I understand the concept of replacability and the costs involved in setting up, transport and table fees etc. I usually nab a few books off some of the Big National dealers almost as a way of saying "thanks for bringing the books to the show." Still if the goal of every dealer is to get the collector to their table and enter into discussions that lead to possible sales - I have to say that at the past few cons many dealers do themselves a disservice with the astronomical price structure methodology I discussed previously.

 

All in all I really hope Cons continue to thrive and that the current issue have some resolution. Cons are a vital cog in the dealer collector relationship and doing business face to face still seems to bring out more of the positives in the trasaction. If nothing else it trumps the whinning justified and not over shipping fiascos.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Okay, I like it. The con's website could have some good text like that. Otherwise, the way they have to communicate with you is an ad (probably much less than a full page in the local papers or weekly alternative papers) or a flier and not sure how much room they have to really discuss in depth what kind of comics will be available. But even a line or two would be a good improvement.

 

"but for the purposes of this discussion I would say it is any individual whose primary intent in attending a convention is to purchase back issue comic books."

 

Maybe the word hardcore should just be left out then? So would we be dividing the comic people up into these three primary types:

 

1) Back issue collectors

 

2) People attending primarily for the artists

 

3) Current collectors/readers who are coming just to buy TPBs and in-print stuff, ie no back issues

 

By the way, this is totally anecdotal but one of the most serious Bay Area collectors I know absolutely raved about meeting the Lost in Space woman at Super-Con. Just thrilled to speak with her and get a picture. So there is some crossover, however slight.

 

Marc

[langur88]

Please come down from your high horse and blame yourself for your own failures once in a while.

 

Might be time for you to listen to some of your own words. Focusing some of your energies into promoting the Boston show might be a good start. Plenty of comic collectors won't even come out to the show anymore because you(as the promoter) don't give them a reason to(fact, not opinion). You can continue to dismiss criticisms of the show or anyone who does not agree with you, but the fact is, there are collectors out there, they need to be attracted to the show. Comic collectors don't just include your .50/$1 book customers, they run the gamut from bargain bin divers to collectors looking to fill runs, folks looking for just older material, and yes, even "elitist high grade comic book buyers"(who are not the only ones who have kids that might need some suitable entertaining while at a show). And don't forget the creator interested customers. Come on, vendors hawking swords and knives fit the parameters of a properly promoted comic show(look no further than your avatar!)?

 

Dave, it's not always as simple as you always being right and everything you don't agree with is wrong, as a promoter it's time to step up to the plate and provide the Boston market with what it needs-a show people can get excited about! Then you can get back on your high horse!

 

The sword guy was three years ago and you will not see weapons or bootlegs again at a Primate Promotions show.

 

I agree with many of your points but please enlighten me on what the show needs to attract more attendees as long as it is comic book related and cost effective. Most "suggestions" that I receive involve throwing money at something. The attendence has been steady for ten years and has gone up and down with comic book sales in general. I would be glad to discuss conventions over a beer or three. Larry buys. We could make a round table discussion out of it.

 

I have never thought that I am always right. I am always opinionated with much experience to rely on. Please take a look at the info for our next Boston show and let me know what you think the show needs more of to attract comic book fans and collectors

 

DON’T MISS NEW ENGLAND’S PREMIER SHOW FOR COLLECTORS OF COMIC BOOKS FROM GOLDEN AGE TO TODAYS PLUS TOYS, GAMES, ANIME, VIDEO & OTHER POP CULTURE!

 

1 DAY ONLY! OVER 100 TABLES!

 

 OVER ONE MILLION COMIC BOOKS FROM 1938-2006!

 

 

IT’S BEEN “THE BOSTON COMIC BOOK SHOW” SINCE 1975!

 

 BOSTON COMIC BOOK SPECTACULAR 52!

 

SUNDAY JULY 23rd 10 A.M.-4 P.M.

 

 Boston Radisson Hotel

 

200 STUART ST. BOSTON 6TH FLOOR

 

$5 WITH COUPON ON SITE

 

 special guests

 

Norm Breyfogle -Long-time Batman artist! Prime, Metaphysique. Bitter Souls

 

Dennis O'Neil - Batman, Azrael, Nightwing

 

 Rick Leonardi - Superman, Batman, Batgirl, Spider-Man 2099, Hulk

 

Also featuring

 

Hannibal King, Paul Gould, Rob Larsen, Corbett Features,

The Harvard Lampoon, Undercover Fish Productions and

Josh Dahl of Monolith Press

 

 Confirmed Dealers include:

 

 WEB-HEAD ENTERPRISES

COMICALLY SPEAKING

LARRY'S COMICS

GOLDEN AGE COLLECTIBLES

CHRIS'S COMICS

JIM PAYETTE RARE BOOKS AND COMICS

SUPERWORLD

RON JOHNSEN

MONKEYHOUSE ENTERTAINMENT

RUBBER CHICKEN

CLUBHOUSE COMICS

BARON'S COLLECTIBLES

COLE'S COMICS

ODYSSEY COMICS

PAPERBACK BAZAAR

HEROES IN ACTION

SCOTT REILLY

MONNIE AYASH

CARD & COMIC COMPANY

SIGNED EDITION

FINAR COLLECTIBLES

STEVE BISAILLON COMICS

DIDIER MARTIN COMICS

PATRICK SULLIVAN COMICS

QUAHOG COMICS

BOP CITY COMICS

BEDROCK COMICS

CKB COMICS

DAVE MOULDER NON-SPORTS CARDS

MARK B'S COMICS AND CCG'S

with many more to be added!

 

 

Advance tickets are now available for all Primate Promotions shows. Paypal is accepted at monkeyhouse55@aol.com add 50 cents to the admission price and your Paypal receipt with name & address will serve as proof of purchase and pre-registration/raffle ticket. Please state which show you are purchasing tickets for

 

 

Primatepromotions.com

primatepromos@aol.com

978-388-6576

 

[Darrell F]

Norm Breyfogle -Long-time Batman artist! Prime, Metaphysique. Bitter Souls

 

Dennis O'Neil - Batman, Azrael, Nightwing

 

Any chance that there will be a signature series witness at this show?

[Pirate]

everything was good until you jacked up the paypal price. I can't stand that [embarrassing lack of self control]

[langur88]

everything was good until you jacked up the paypal price. I can't stand that [embarrassing lack of self control]

 

I will waive the 50 cents for you. I apologize for profiteering.

 

The paypal charge is 30 cents to me and for the other 20 cents you don't have to wait in the line to fill out the raffle ticket.

 

It's optional. I hope that you come to the show.

[langur88]

quote]

 

Perhaps one way is to mention the attendence of both national and local dealers, if applicable, in promoting the show. i.e. "Bob Storms of highgradecomics.com is bringing his comic books to YOU!!! Don't miss this opportunity to add to your collection from his amazing inventory along with the vast selection of Golden, Silver, Bronze, and Modern age comics from all of our attending dealers! With a wide array of local and nationally known exhibitors, Jimmy-Con 2007 will be full of more great comics than you could ever hope to find in a single store. From $1.00 bargain bins to professionally graded key issues, we'll have something for everyone in the convenience of our spacious exhibit hall. Be sure to bring your want lists!" Or if a particular dealer is going to be unveiling new inventory from a recently acquired collection, find a way to promote that in advance in a way that benefits all the exhibitors. My basic idea is to make the dealers the stars of the show just as you would a headlining creator or celebrity.

 

 

We list the confirmed dealers on our web-site for all shows. We also have links to the dealers so that they can do their own crowing. Even Mr. Storms who has not made the trip lately but is still on the Primate Promotions recommended dealer list. and Andy. and Odyssey. Oh yeah. Jim Payette too. His only convention appearance! You can see them July 23rd in Boston.

[langur88]

Norm Breyfogle -Long-time Batman artist! Prime, Metaphysique. Bitter Souls

 

Dennis O'Neil - Batman, Azrael, Nightwing

 

Any chance that there will be a signature series witness at this show?

 

Would that be Kevin or Peters domain?

[Kevin Boyd]

Well any CGC Signature Series Witnesses in the area could be available, I just don't know of any offhand who might be there. Perhaps if one of them is reading this thread they could let me know, if not, I will ask around.

 

Unfortunately I've got too many trips on my schedule with HeroesCon and SDCCI and WWChicago coming up to make more stop.