Hero Restoration Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) I am just curious why you took the before/after pics of the book in the bag? Show us the durn book! I thought it might have looked that way but the book is in front of the bag and board. I usually just use the board but I was in a hurry. I realize I didn't take many angles but I was getting tired of allot of pics just for the experiment to go wrong. I will do a better job of taking pictures next time. And I would not waste your money of SCPF. SRP is more then adequate. But Talas has a sample book of all the mylars and films they carry for $6 if you want to check it out before dropping big money on it. I saw the sample book but it didn't say what size the samples were. I will look into it, thanks. Edited September 27, 2009 by MasterCPU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Definitely don’t use a towel. It is not smooth and will leave marks. Regular printer paper is fine but it can stick to the cover. Something called silicon release paper seems to be very safe and is super non-stick. I think the temp for a iron would be light to medium and you would need some pressure. I hope that helps. You can buy parchment paper from the supermarket, too. (In the same aisle where you find the aluminum foil and plastic wrap.) It's essentially the same thing as the silicone release paper that conservators use. Their are cheaper substitutes but why would you want to use them? **Look up the word "cheapskate". Dude, I just bought a roll of SRP for under $50 shipped. 26" X 60'. You can find it HERE. That's enough to do around 100 comics, if you only used each cutting once. I've found I can get more than one usage out of each cutting. As far as your waffling issue, put something between the rubber mat and the book/SRP/etc. I went to a local metal shop and got a piece of aluminum cut to the dimensions of my press; cost me $15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PovertyRow Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Pressing Experiment 101101522 Ok, so I have been working at it hard and I think I am getting close to it coming out right and need opinions on the results. 2 min at 175 degrees or so, maybe lower , glass,backboard, Mylar on outside of book and release paper inside the cover so pages wont stick. My next experiment is going to be at 1 1/2 minutes. BTW has anyone tried silicon polyester film? Its $80 a roll and thats a little steep for me if it's not what I would want but it sounds like the best of both worlds since its smooth and has release properties. I used to use what I assume is the silicon poly film back in the 80's. Expensive but a roll was huge and would last ridiculous amounts of time. If I ever ge into this again will probably go with it as it is what I know and I really liked it. I agree with Ze-Man. Show the book out of the bag before/after. Showing the book like that tells us nothing. And one really important thing here. You say Ok, so I have been working at it hard and I think I am getting close to it coming out right and need opinions on the results. 2 min at 175 degrees or so, maybe lower - you have to KNOW. No "or so, maybe lower". While restoration is not quantum mechanics, it IS a science and you have to start being very accurate when testing as to the conditions your subject was put under. What did you do for humidification? Also, when Ze-Man asked why not take the pictures while the books were out of the bag/board you said "but I was in a hurry" - and yes, you said you would do better next time but - think about what you are doing here. Trying to regain something from a poor start - and you say you were in a hurry. It won't cut it. SLOW DOWN. Take things a step at a time. Really work on one book, with very clear images beforer and after. Really record what you did. No "175 degrees or so, maybe lower" - tell us exactly what you had the dial set to. While it seems your intentions are taking a good turn, your technique and process needs to catch up with those intentons. Take it slow. Record everything exactly. Make proper photographs. Like I say, not quantum mechanics but it IS a science. (and in Kenny's hand. an art as well!) ===swoon=== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Restoration Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) Pressing Experiment 101101522 Ok, so I have been working at it hard and I think I am getting close to it coming out right and need opinions on the results. 2 min at 175 degrees or so, maybe lower , glass,backboard, Mylar on outside of book and release paper inside the cover so pages wont stick. My next experiment is going to be at 1 1/2 minutes. BTW has anyone tried silicon polyester film? Its $80 a roll and thats a little steep for me if it's not what I would want but it sounds like the best of both worlds since its smooth and has release properties. I used to use what I assume is the silicon poly film back in the 80's. Expensive but a roll was huge and would last ridiculous amounts of time. If I ever ge into this again will probably go with it as it is what I know and I really liked it. I agree with Ze-Man. Show the book out of the bag before/after. Showing the book like that tells us nothing. And one really important thing here. You say Ok, so I have been working at it hard and I think I am getting close to it coming out right and need opinions on the results. 2 min at 175 degrees or so, maybe lower - you have to KNOW. No "or so, maybe lower". While restoration is not quantum mechanics, it IS a science and you have to start being very accurate when testing as to the conditions your subject was put under. What did you do for humidification? Also, when Ze-Man asked why not take the pictures while the books were out of the bag/board you said "but I was in a hurry" - and yes, you said you would do better next time but - think about what you are doing here. Trying to regain something from a poor start - and you say you were in a hurry. It won't cut it. SLOW DOWN. Take things a step at a time. Really work on one book, with very clear images beforer and after. Really record what you did. No "175 degrees or so, maybe lower" - tell us exactly what you had the dial set to. While it seems your intentions are taking a good turn, your technique and process needs to catch up with those intentons. Take it slow. Record everything exactly. Make proper photographs. Like I say, not quantum mechanics but it IS a science. (and in Kenny's hand. an art as well!) ===swoon=== I hear you bud, it wasnt in the bag but in front of it. Even so I agree I need to be more thorough and detailed. I said 175 or so because what my dial says and what my platen say are different. When dial is set to 180 the platen was 130 I think and right now my dial is set at 225 and platen is getting to 180. I don't know if that is a defective part or its suppose to be like that. So you were pressing back in the 80's ? How long have comics been getting pressed for? Edited September 28, 2009 by MasterCPU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicwiz Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 When dial is set to 180 the platen was 130 I think and right now my dial is set at 225 and platen is getting to 180. I don't know if that is a defective part or its suppose to be like that. Just curious, how do you know the exact temperature of the platen? Are you metering it out using a special device or using test strips which change to a different colour when the platen achieves a specific temperature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Restoration Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 When dial is set to 180 the platen was 130 I think and right now my dial is set at 225 and platen is getting to 180. I don't know if that is a defective part or its suppose to be like that. Just curious, how do you know the exact temperature of the platen? Are you metering it out using a special device or using test strips which change to a different colour when the platen achieves a specific temperature? I am using a temperate probe like the one you use to check food with. I have heard that the paper doesn't relax until it reaches 180 and any time I seem to go much below that nothing presses out. So when the Platen is at 160 I don’t get any results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd2416 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Wasnt there a post in here where someone was asking a bunch of questions from a few days, maybe 7-10 days ago? Between posts 3481792 and 3481863 Did it get deleted/removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Restoration Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I have been running a ton of experiments with Hydration, Silicon release paper and Mylar. I am putting together a comparison sheet and prepping a book for an example but I wanted to show this first just to get the topic fired up again. I think SRP is and here is why. I want you to look closely at this sample and notice the tight rows of wrinkles. This is caused by the book being slightly hydrated. Almost every book has at least a little humidity in it and the SRP is ruined on 1st use and sometimes ruins the book. These wrinkles will transfer to the book. Mylar does not do this and I also want to point out the Mylar last way longer than SRP and is much smoother and does not wrinkle. I also want to point out I think more people are using Mylar than they are letting on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Laminating pouches come with sheets of silicone-coated paper that are much heavier than the flimsy SRP you get on a roll - it doesn't wrinkle, is perfectly smooth, and can be re-used 100s of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeypost Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I have been running a ton of experiments with Hydration, Silicon release paper and Mylar. I am putting together a comparison sheet and prepping a book for an example but I wanted to show this first just to get the topic fired up again. I think SRP is and here is why. I want you to look closely at this sample and notice the tight rows of wrinkles. This is caused by the book being slightly hydrated. Almost every book has at least a little humidity in it and the SRP is ruined on 1st use and sometimes ruins the book. These wrinkles will transfer to the book. Mylar does not do this and I also want to point out the Mylar last way longer than SRP and is much smoother and does not wrinkle. I also want to point out I think more people are using Mylar than they are letting on. Your SRP looks like that because you still have way too much moisture in the book when you place it in the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Restoration Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) Pressing Experiment 10100101550 Ok I think I have it dialed in and I am going to share it all with you. I don't know if this came out perfect, but it came out so good I have goose bumps just thinking about it. I am so excited before I begin I want to show you this example. I want you to notice in after shot how much shiner the cover is. In the before it looks matte and in after you can actually see the light fixture is so smooth. You like? I like but I know what you’re thinking. Comic is warped bad right? Well I will let you be the judge of that for that is why I post these, to get both positive and negative feedback. So let’s start at the beginning shall we? ( I do notice now there is a little warp at top edge now that I have previewed this post. ) First thing I am going to do is humidify the book. I have experimented with different methods and using SRP and have been frustrated with absolute failure. I finally settled on a hand fabric steamer to humidify the book. I pass over the steam so fast, that paper still feels very dry. The paper is exposed to a single quick pass page by page like this. Then it is time to put it in my press. One of the mistakes I was making with my press is it was getting too hot and I didn't know it because it didn't have a temp probe built into the platen. Also what was misleading was the temperature knob. You can see here it has to be calibrated and then fastened down. I went ahead and installed a temp probe into the platen. Even then I found the dial unreliable and have to manual keep it at 185 F . Here you see my press nick named by the manufacture "Fog Eyes". It’s much bigger than I need but it gets the job done. Ok so I prep the comic by putting Mylar and backboard around it like this. Next I get the Press to 185 F and then set the comic in face down, close the press and wait 2 min. Beep goes the timer, I flip it over and let it go another 2 min. After time is up, I turn on a fan to cool the press quickly. I leave it pressed the whole time. Next day I pop it out and here is what I have to show you. Now I know it looks a little pancaked, But I am much happier with the way it looks now verses before and cant wait to try this out on a higher grade book. More to come soon. Phew, that was some work. Ok I am goping to unlease this and see what happends. Edited October 31, 2009 by MastrCntrlProgram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Comments: Still way too much humidity being introduced in way too aggressive a manner. If you don't want to build a humidity chamber, just do what some others have suggested and lightly spray three sheets of 11X17 acid-free paper with water from a misting spray bottle, let the sheets of paper soak up all of the water, and then put one sheet each between the cover and the interior pages. Take the third sheet of acid-free paper, fold it in half (top edge folded down to meet the bottom edge so you wind up with a 8.5X11 folded sheet) with a hard crease, and insert it at the centerfold so that the crease meets the staples. (It should stick out at all three edges of the book.) From here, use SRP above and below the book in the press. Dial the heat down to 165-170F. 185 is too hot for my liking and is unnecessary. Get rid of those back boards - they're not doing you any good and they absorb so much heat that they're probably the reason you weren't getting results at lower temperatures. Skip the Mylar too - the Mylar is making the covers unnaturally shiny, which is not a good thing. The problem you were having with the SRP is probably because you were using way too much humidity. With proper humidity, you shouldn't have that problem anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Man Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Wow... sure does make a bit of a difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Restoration Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Thanks for your input Scott and thanks for the compliment Mac Man. (thumbs u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etanick Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 seems like adding moisture to each page is more risky that any benefits. You weren't worry about the ink transfer at all? Unless I read your descriptions incorrectly about this step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Restoration Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) seems like adding moisture to each page is more risky that any benefits. You weren't worry about the ink transfer at all? Unless I read your descriptions incorrectly about this step. I am going to edit original post to add this: I pass over the steam so fast, that paper still feels very dry. The paper is exposed to a single quick pass. Still, you have brought up an interesting point . I wasn't worried because its an experiment to help me consider issue's I wouldn't have just thought of or ones I wanted to see if it would happen. I just checked every page and they seem fine. In future test I think I will slip some Mylar between the cover and pages. I also want to add that part of my experiments is pushing the boundaries to see what can be and cannot be done. This was intentional at the extreme of moisture, pressure and heat, and I could certainly throttle back on them some. Also I want to add this was only a $6.75 comic ( I got a good deal I think) which is why I choose to take a chance on it. Edited October 31, 2009 by MastrCntrlProgram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-mack Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 damn man! thats badass.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Restoration Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 damn man! thats badass.... Thanks C-mack !! your compliment is greatly appreciated. (thumbs u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Restoration Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Pressing Experiment 10100101553 Ok, at the advice of Scott, I performed this experiment with less heat and humidity. I did everything the same as before except I reduced the temp to 175 F and only steamed the outside of cover and focused a little extra on the spine. Enjoy that new comic shine. My next experiment will be to try a lower temperature like 155 F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 (thumbs u Much improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
