Punisher #1 CGC 9.8.....WTF??!?!?!?!?!

[SuperBird]

psst! 5- issue Punisher series.

[Scheradon]

Ok, in the case of the Champions #1, there are only 2 graded 9.8s out there right now.

 

You're in a real mindset rut, ain't ya?

 

I've already stated this earlier:

 

"Whether census numbers represent real or percieved scarcity, what do you predict the HG numbers will be in 5 years?"

 

So, whether these numbers mean the book is truly HTF in HG or people have them hoarded away, the bottom line is they are not out there to be had.

 

I would still like to know which book you think will pull more coin (however much that may or may not be) in cgc 9.8 in 5 years time from now?

 

I say Champions #1. I put it out there.

 

You aren't getting what he is saying. The market for either book is propped up by artificial scarcity, and as such they have a very slim chance of retaining their value. Bronze and modern 9.8s, 9.9s and 10.0s are MANUFACTURED rarities. Without the 9.8 label that Champions 1 or Punisher 1 are worth what? $30 each? Their value comes from an artificial designation and speculator interest, not from the book itself.

 

As for Champions 1 being tough in high grade, that just isn't accurate. I saw literally DOZENS of 9.4+ copies sold on eBay by Zillaf4. He probably had half a shortbox filled with pristine, uncirculated copies. Ask Norrin, he would remember too...

 

I get what he is saying, but you guys aren't getting what I was saying.

 

I already stated the disclaimer to the real or PERCIEVED scarcity in the census numbers. What do you guys think drives these prices? It doesn't matter if dealer X has 50 long boxes of uncirculated this or that if they are not out there to be had. There may be a bunch of 9.4s in that box, but if none grade out at 9.8, then they don't affect this scenario at all.

 

Here's the short of it...again...Which book do you think will pull more coin to a seller selling a CGC 9.8 copy of in 5 years? Forget about which character is more significant in the comic book realm, how many raw NM uncirculated books dealers X,Y, and Z have, etc, etc. Forget about whether you think one will be worth $0.50 and the other $1.00. Just interested which book you all think will pull in more $$$ in 5 years.

 

I think it will be Champions #1.

[THE_BEYONDER]

For all we know...CGC 9.8s could be bin fodder in 5 years if the structural manipulation continues.

[Scheradon]

Ok, in the case of the Champions #1, there are only 2 graded 9.8s out there right now. There hasn't really been the supply available to drive any speculation. It would take someone submitting a small stack of these in pristine condition to even get this ball rolling. I'm thinking that in 5 years time there will still be 10 or less of these, thus still not flooding the market.

 

2 years ago there were 0 copies of Daredevil #168 in 9.8. Now there are 9.

 

Maybe there will be 10 copies in 9.8 in 10 years, maybe not. Who cares? It's CHAMPIONS #1. How many people really *need* this book in 9.8? In contrast, how many people are going to be trying to get a set of Punisher 1-4 in 9.8? Just being the fact that it's the first Punisher book that wraps up neatly in a nice 4 issue set makes it more collectible. Is anyone trying to put together a run of champions in 9.8 besides a couple hardcore bronze completionists? If the book didn't have a "#1" in the top left corner and instead was part of the "Marvel Premiere" or "Marvel Feature" run, it would be worthless.

 

I'm one of them that is currently collecting this title and believe me there are others as the most recent sales of books from this title in 9.8 have soared above my spending budget.

 

You seem intent on turning this into a who's more important to you type debate. I really don't care about that.

 

Personally I'd prefer to have a Champions #1 or Invaders #1 over the Punisher LS #1 anyday. Hands down. 100%. I think I can be pretty sure you would prefer the Punisher book, so now that we have that out of the way...

 

Which book do you think will sell for more in 5 years from now in CGC 9.8?

 

A) Champions #1

 

B) Punisher LS #1

[Scheradon]

For all we know...CGC 9.8s could be bin fodder in 5 years if the structural manipulation continues.

 

Chuck's new mulch

[the blob]

I'd rather have ASM 129 in 9.6!

[joe_collector]

This kind of conversation makes me fear for the future of the hobby.

 

I say we round up all the old sportscard/action figure speculators who somehow drifted into comics, and burn them at the stake.

[Scheradon]

I'd rather have ASM 129 in 9.6!

 

Now there's an important book!

[valiantman]

For all we know...CGC 9.8s could be bin fodder in 5 years if the structural manipulation continues.

 

Then every book will be worthless.

 

Think about it, if a CGC 9.8 is "worthless" when it looks pristine,

then every ungraded book that looks pristine will be assumed to be a CGC 9.8 broken out of the slab.

So it too will be worthless. If graded and ungraded pristine books are worthless,

then every copy that's in lower condition is worth less than worthless.

 

The whole market is being propped up by CGC 9.8s.

 

A foundation made of plastic. I hope it doesn't get too hot.

[joe_collector]

Think about it, if a CGC 9.8 is "worthless" when it looks pristine,

then every ungraded book that looks pristine will be assumed to be a CGC 9.8 broken out of the slab.

 

"Worthless" is a relative term here. For instance, if all those pretty CGC 9.8 commons that sold for $500 suddenly resold for $50, I think the who invested in them would call the books "worthless".

[the blob]

"The whole market is being propped up by CGC 9.8s."

 

Which market, the one for high grade 9.4+ slabs? I understand that is the focus of many people here, but really, there are lots of back issue comics being bought by lots of people who do not even obsess about the difference between a nice VF+ copy and a NM+ one and are just looking for what they perceive as a "deal", which is something less than their local shop would charge them for something they're looking for.

[valiantman]

I'm just saying that if anyone is in it for the "dollar factor",

then regardless of their favorite condition (9.8, 9.4, 8.5, 6.0, etc.),

the dollars are driven from the top down.

 

If the top crumbles, it will ripple through all the other grades.

People who bought a 9.0 in "high times" could get a 9.6 for that price after a "crash".

Everyone would be affected by an implosion at the top.

 

Unless you're only buying readers and don't care about condition, value, etc.,

which is probably not the people buying Champions #1 CGC 9.8 or Punisher #1 CGC 9.8.

[Scheradon]

Think about it, if a CGC 9.8 is "worthless" when it looks pristine,

then every ungraded book that looks pristine will be assumed to be a CGC 9.8 broken out of the slab.

 

"Worthless" is a relative term here. For instance, if all those pretty CGC 9.8 commons that sold for $500 suddenly resold for $50, I think the who invested in them would call the books "worthless".

 

So, anyone who buys a $500 cgc 9.8 book is suddenly an investor? I don't look at it that way when I purchase these books. I am a collector and buy them because I try to get the most pristine book I can afford of titles from my childhood. I've never sold or flipped a slabbed book, I cherish my collection and hope I never have to sell them in my lifetime.

 

I'm fully aware that my books can go up or down in value. It's human nature however, to hope they go up or atleast keep their current value. This doesn't make one an "investor" or "speculator" IMO.

[Scheradon]

Here's a VF copy of the hot Punisher LS #1 book that just went unsold at $0.99.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Punisher-Limited-Ser...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

You can always pick up nice raw copies of these books for next to nothing really.

 

Doing a search of completed items on eBay, I see no Champions #1s getting passed over or going for that low of a price (especially in VF grade). So, whether it be CGC 9.8 or a raw VF book or probably even a fair book, it looks like Champions #1 currently trumps the Punisher LS #1.

 

I see no reason why this will be any different in 5 years.

[COI]

You seem intent on turning this into a who's more important to you type debate.

 

 

You cannot compare the price potential of 2 books without taking into consideration which book is more significant, because they're not mutually exclusive. Significance = demand and demand = $$$$. And I'm saying that the demand for a Punisher #1 is greater, and despite the greater supply of copies it's more likely to hold ground. And again, for the record, I think these both suck as "investments", but the champions sucks harder.

[october]

You seem intent on turning this into a who's more important to you type debate.

 

 

You cannot compare the price potential of 2 books without taking into consideration which book is more significant, because they're not mutually exclusive. Significance = demand and demand = $$$$. And I'm saying that the demand for a Punisher #1 is greater, and despite the greater supply of copies it's more likely to hold ground. And again, for the record, I think these both suck as "investments", but the champions sucks harder.

 

I agree.

[THE_BEYONDER]

They were both good investments for those that bought them at cover price & are now slabbing those copies & getting 9.8s

 

Buying today for 'investment' at the slabbed 9.8 level is financial suicide.

[SuperBird]

remind again why this thread is so focused on Champions #1 vs. Punisher #1? seems like a rather random comparison...

 

In rethinking it, I think the 9.8 version of Champions #1 will be worth slighty more than the 9.8 Punisher #1, as there will be much fewer 9.8 collectors, there will be alot of 'extra' 9.8 punishers floating around. But again, it's a pointless discussion. So how did it come up again?

 

To those who pay $ for 9.8 books, I have to ask, how can you NOT consider it an investment? Are you totally OK with the possibility that you will not be able to resell for more than 10% of what you are paying? Really? Because otherwise, it is an investment.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Are you totally OK with the possibility that you will not be able to resell for more than 10% of what you are paying? Really? Because otherwise, it is an investment.

 

 

Give me a break. I was going to throw together a couple of analogies to refute this blanket statement....but I'm sure someone else will be along any moment to do it for me.

[SuperBird]

please throw together analogies.