Punisher #1 CGC 9.8.....WTF??!?!?!?!?!

[Scheradon]

Interesting points.

 

BTW Alfred E. Neuman didn't show up until #30 and that issue is considered a valuable key.

 

Well, actually, he was on the cover of #21...

 

How about that, he is on that cover. I wonder why they generally credit #30 with his first appearence? Anyway, cool bit of info

[Scheradon]

I'm almost done with this. I enjoy these kinds of debates, but not when I have to keep repeating myself.

 

How about Punisher War Journal #1 in 9.8? It's got that significant Punisher guy in there?

 

Do I really have to address this?

 

Look, ASM #129 is significant and an important sought after book. These Punisher LS books aren't all that important really. Like I've said, look at the Wolverine (abd he's pretty popular I believe) LS book and you can see how the price never approaches the $400-$500 range. Even with high demand for him, as more and more 9.8s have surfaced, it keeps the price down. You will begin to see this with the Punisher as well as more 9.8s surface.

 

Why are you turning this into a discussion of which Punisher related book is more significant? Of course ASM #129 is THE Punisher book, but we're comparing Punisher LS #1 to Champions #1. Nobody said anything about ASM #129, Punisher War Journal #1, or Wolverine #1.

 

And I'll say it again; Punisher #1 was the start of the 80's and 90's Punisher craze, as opposed to Wolverine who was ALREADY popular by the time the first issue of his limited series hit. Logically, that means that Wolverine #1 was much more heavily hoarded, which explains the massive supply. The census, which you swear by, backs up this theory. 30 9.8 Punisher #1's compared to 450 9.8 Wolverine #1's. I'm not saying there won't be more Punisher 1's appearing in 9.8, but the total will never get anywhere near Wolverine #1, so you can't make any sort of reasonable comparison between the 2 books.

 

I think you underestimate the demand for a book like Champions #1 in 9.8. I know I didn't even bid on the one that sold for $577 awhile back and I would be willing to pay $500 for the book. There were 3 other lower bids that topped $500 in that auction as well. Now, if it's taken this many years to get 2 9.8s, then how many more do you think will be there in 5 years? You can bet there will be enough demand for them at $500 plus to sustain this price.

 

I already used the example of DD #168 which had 0 9.8 copies until around 2004 and now there are 9. So over the course of 5 years not a single solitary 9.8 was produced, then 9 showed up in less than 2 years. The point is, you don't know what's coming down the pike, and using linear extrapolation to predict future census numbers is a fool's errand. You're assuming that grading standards will always be the same, which they probably won't be, and you're also assuming that the market will always accept CGC's arbitrary 9.6/9.8 designations, which is also something you can't know for certain.

 

Unless a wharehouse find comes along or a dealer submits his uncirculated hoard of 9.8s, then the price will hold for this book. As for Punisher LS #1, it's most recent sale has already made the $504 look like a bad buy.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that $500 for a Punisher #1 isn't a bad buy, but you keep insisting that this is a discussion about which book has legs 5-10 years from now, so I don't see why you even made this point.

 

Maybe if we both keep repeating ourselves we'll finally realize we are not having the same debate

 

Here, I'll bring it back to simplicity...

 

Which book do you think will sell for more in cgc 9.8 grade in 5 years?

 

A) Punisher LS #1

B) Champions #1

C) Invaders #1

[joe_collector]

I wouldn't know, I've never bought a graded sportscard.

 

So you also live in a bubble?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I'm almost done with this. I enjoy these kinds of debates, but not when I have to keep repeating myself.

 

How about Punisher War Journal #1 in 9.8? It's got that significant Punisher guy in there?

 

Do I really have to address this?

 

Look, ASM #129 is significant and an important sought after book. These Punisher LS books aren't all that important really. Like I've said, look at the Wolverine (abd he's pretty popular I believe) LS book and you can see how the price never approaches the $400-$500 range. Even with high demand for him, as more and more 9.8s have surfaced, it keeps the price down. You will begin to see this with the Punisher as well as more 9.8s surface.

 

Why are you turning this into a discussion of which Punisher related book is more significant? Of course ASM #129 is THE Punisher book, but we're comparing Punisher LS #1 to Champions #1. Nobody said anything about ASM #129, Punisher War Journal #1, or Wolverine #1.

 

And I'll say it again; Punisher #1 was the start of the 80's and 90's Punisher craze, as opposed to Wolverine who was ALREADY popular by the time the first issue of his limited series hit. Logically, that means that Wolverine #1 was much more heavily hoarded, which explains the massive supply. The census, which you swear by, backs up this theory. 30 9.8 Punisher #1's compared to 450 9.8 Wolverine #1's. I'm not saying there won't be more Punisher 1's appearing in 9.8, but the total will never get anywhere near Wolverine #1, so you can't make any sort of reasonable comparison between the 2 books.

 

I think you underestimate the demand for a book like Champions #1 in 9.8. I know I didn't even bid on the one that sold for $577 awhile back and I would be willing to pay $500 for the book. There were 3 other lower bids that topped $500 in that auction as well. Now, if it's taken this many years to get 2 9.8s, then how many more do you think will be there in 5 years? You can bet there will be enough demand for them at $500 plus to sustain this price.

 

I already used the example of DD #168 which had 0 9.8 copies until around 2004 and now there are 9. So over the course of 5 years not a single solitary 9.8 was produced, then 9 showed up in less than 2 years. The point is, you don't know what's coming down the pike, and using linear extrapolation to predict future census numbers is a fool's errand. You're assuming that grading standards will always be the same, which they probably won't be, and you're also assuming that the market will always accept CGC's arbitrary 9.6/9.8 designations, which is also something you can't know for certain.

 

Unless a wharehouse find comes along or a dealer submits his uncirculated hoard of 9.8s, then the price will hold for this book. As for Punisher LS #1, it's most recent sale has already made the $504 look like a bad buy.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that $500 for a Punisher #1 isn't a bad buy, but you keep insisting that this is a discussion about which book has legs 5-10 years from now, so I don't see why you even made this point.

 

Maybe if we both keep repeating ourselves we'll finally realize we are not having the same debate

 

Here, I'll bring it back to simplicity...

 

Which book do you think will sell for more in cgc 9.8 grade in 5 years?

 

A) Punisher LS #1

B) Champions #1

C) Invaders #1

 

Personally, I don't feel any of those books will be fetching $500 in 5 years. I think the environment for comics in five years will be gravely different then it is today, namely because I forsee global macroeconomic events weighing heavily on all of us this year, next year, and thereafter.

 

Also, the high prices brought about post CGC have initiated a "cashing out" of many long term collectors in the past few years, which has had the effect of injecting enormous supply back into the market, supply which is exceeding demand, at least at current prices. There has also been a systematic "flight to quality" on many certified books in the last five years, with 9.2s trumping 9.0s, then 9.4s trumping 9.2s, then 9.6s trumping 9.4s, etc. This has the effect of eroding price supports on lower graded books, as collectors chase "the best". This chain typically has a deflationary effect in the long run. Maybe in five years, 9.8s will be like 9.4s and 9.6s today, trumped by a handful of 9.9s or 10s.

 

Having said all that, the book with the best chance to fetch $500 in CGC 9.8 in five years is indeed Punisher LS # 1, for all the reasons so well articulated by others.

[october]

If you think that you can pick one up for $10, then here's your opportunity to make quite a chunk of change. Why not jump on it? And irregardless of how you view the title or book, it still draws in more money than the Punisher LS #1, so someone must like it.

 

What is the point of this thread? I know you want the Champions 1 in 9.8 (you have mentioned it a few times in the past), so why don't you just buy it? If you are looking for people to tell you that it's a sound investment you aren't going to find them here. You obviously have your mind firmly set, so why even bother soliciting opinions?

[the blob]

a sound investment would likely be buying the 9.8 copy raw for the 9.2 price and slabbing it. so go start looking!

[COI]

I'm almost done with this. I enjoy these kinds of debates, but not when I have to keep repeating myself.

 

How about Punisher War Journal #1 in 9.8? It's got that significant Punisher guy in there?

 

Do I really have to address this?

 

Look, ASM #129 is significant and an important sought after book. These Punisher LS books aren't all that important really. Like I've said, look at the Wolverine (abd he's pretty popular I believe) LS book and you can see how the price never approaches the $400-$500 range. Even with high demand for him, as more and more 9.8s have surfaced, it keeps the price down. You will begin to see this with the Punisher as well as more 9.8s surface.

 

Why are you turning this into a discussion of which Punisher related book is more significant? Of course ASM #129 is THE Punisher book, but we're comparing Punisher LS #1 to Champions #1. Nobody said anything about ASM #129, Punisher War Journal #1, or Wolverine #1.

 

And I'll say it again; Punisher #1 was the start of the 80's and 90's Punisher craze, as opposed to Wolverine who was ALREADY popular by the time the first issue of his limited series hit. Logically, that means that Wolverine #1 was much more heavily hoarded, which explains the massive supply. The census, which you swear by, backs up this theory. 30 9.8 Punisher #1's compared to 450 9.8 Wolverine #1's. I'm not saying there won't be more Punisher 1's appearing in 9.8, but the total will never get anywhere near Wolverine #1, so you can't make any sort of reasonable comparison between the 2 books.

 

I think you underestimate the demand for a book like Champions #1 in 9.8. I know I didn't even bid on the one that sold for $577 awhile back and I would be willing to pay $500 for the book. There were 3 other lower bids that topped $500 in that auction as well. Now, if it's taken this many years to get 2 9.8s, then how many more do you think will be there in 5 years? You can bet there will be enough demand for them at $500 plus to sustain this price.

 

I already used the example of DD #168 which had 0 9.8 copies until around 2004 and now there are 9. So over the course of 5 years not a single solitary 9.8 was produced, then 9 showed up in less than 2 years. The point is, you don't know what's coming down the pike, and using linear extrapolation to predict future census numbers is a fool's errand. You're assuming that grading standards will always be the same, which they probably won't be, and you're also assuming that the market will always accept CGC's arbitrary 9.6/9.8 designations, which is also something you can't know for certain.

 

Unless a wharehouse find comes along or a dealer submits his uncirculated hoard of 9.8s, then the price will hold for this book. As for Punisher LS #1, it's most recent sale has already made the $504 look like a bad buy.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that $500 for a Punisher #1 isn't a bad buy, but you keep insisting that this is a discussion about which book has legs 5-10 years from now, so I don't see why you even made this point.

 

Maybe if we both keep repeating ourselves we'll finally realize we are not having the same debate

 

Here, I'll bring it back to simplicity...

 

Which book do you think will sell for more in cgc 9.8 grade in 5 years?

 

A) Punisher LS #1

B) Champions #1

C) Invaders #1

 

[Mephisto]

I think you underestimate the demand for a book like Champions #1 in 9.8.

 

I think you are on crack.

 

Seriously dood, go back to investing in sportscards and action figures.

 

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And it's spelled "warehouse", not wherehouse, wharehouse, wearhouse, whorehouse, or any other variant.

 

Are you saying there are cases of comics waiting to see the light of day in whorehouses?

[Scheradon]

If you think that you can pick one up for $10, then here's your opportunity to make quite a chunk of change. Why not jump on it? And irregardless of how you view the title or book, it still draws in more money than the Punisher LS #1, so someone must like it.

 

What is the point of this thread? I know you want the Champions 1 in 9.8 (you have mentioned it a few times in the past), so why don't you just buy it? If you are looking for people to tell you that it's a sound investment you aren't going to find them here. You obviously have your mind firmly set, so why even bother soliciting opinions?

 

Andy, what are you smoking dude?

 

First of all, the point of this thread was that someone was freaking out about how much a Punisher LS #1 in 9.8 was going for. I posted how for $500 I'd rather have an Invaders #1 or Champions #1 in 9.8. That was really it. Then I got bombarded for saying that and I posed the question to others which of the three books they thought would be worth more in 5 years from now.

 

From that question, I've gotten hit with speculator/investor debates, whose ore significant debates, etc, etc., but very few who actually answered my original question.

 

I could have picked any BA titles to throw out there. I picked those two because they have also sold for $500 plus range, thus an interesting comparison to discuss.

 

I don't know where you got that I was soliciting investment opinions??? Are we reading the same thread? Yes, I would like a 9.8 copy of both Champions #1 and Invaders #1 and wouldn't have a problem paying $500 for each. If you know where I can "just pick one up", then by all means tip me off, cause I don't see them available.

[Scheradon]

I wouldn't know, I've never bought a graded sportscard.

 

So you also live in a bubble?

 

[Scheradon]

I'm almost done with this. I enjoy these kinds of debates, but not when I have to keep repeating myself.

 

How about Punisher War Journal #1 in 9.8? It's got that significant Punisher guy in there?

 

Do I really have to address this?

 

Look, ASM #129 is significant and an important sought after book. These Punisher LS books aren't all that important really. Like I've said, look at the Wolverine (abd he's pretty popular I believe) LS book and you can see how the price never approaches the $400-$500 range. Even with high demand for him, as more and more 9.8s have surfaced, it keeps the price down. You will begin to see this with the Punisher as well as more 9.8s surface.

 

Why are you turning this into a discussion of which Punisher related book is more significant? Of course ASM #129 is THE Punisher book, but we're comparing Punisher LS #1 to Champions #1. Nobody said anything about ASM #129, Punisher War Journal #1, or Wolverine #1.

 

And I'll say it again; Punisher #1 was the start of the 80's and 90's Punisher craze, as opposed to Wolverine who was ALREADY popular by the time the first issue of his limited series hit. Logically, that means that Wolverine #1 was much more heavily hoarded, which explains the massive supply. The census, which you swear by, backs up this theory. 30 9.8 Punisher #1's compared to 450 9.8 Wolverine #1's. I'm not saying there won't be more Punisher 1's appearing in 9.8, but the total will never get anywhere near Wolverine #1, so you can't make any sort of reasonable comparison between the 2 books.

 

I think you underestimate the demand for a book like Champions #1 in 9.8. I know I didn't even bid on the one that sold for $577 awhile back and I would be willing to pay $500 for the book. There were 3 other lower bids that topped $500 in that auction as well. Now, if it's taken this many years to get 2 9.8s, then how many more do you think will be there in 5 years? You can bet there will be enough demand for them at $500 plus to sustain this price.

 

I already used the example of DD #168 which had 0 9.8 copies until around 2004 and now there are 9. So over the course of 5 years not a single solitary 9.8 was produced, then 9 showed up in less than 2 years. The point is, you don't know what's coming down the pike, and using linear extrapolation to predict future census numbers is a fool's errand. You're assuming that grading standards will always be the same, which they probably won't be, and you're also assuming that the market will always accept CGC's arbitrary 9.6/9.8 designations, which is also something you can't know for certain.

 

Unless a wharehouse find comes along or a dealer submits his uncirculated hoard of 9.8s, then the price will hold for this book. As for Punisher LS #1, it's most recent sale has already made the $504 look like a bad buy.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that $500 for a Punisher #1 isn't a bad buy, but you keep insisting that this is a discussion about which book has legs 5-10 years from now, so I don't see why you even made this point.

 

Maybe if we both keep repeating ourselves we'll finally realize we are not having the same debate

 

Here, I'll bring it back to simplicity...

 

Which book do you think will sell for more in cgc 9.8 grade in 5 years?

 

A) Punisher LS #1

B) Champions #1

C) Invaders #1

 

 

Still can't answer it?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Invaders 1

[wolvergeek]

I own a 9.6 PLS 1 that I paid $100 for about 4 years ago. I have seen several 9.8's come and go on Ebay from $150 to $200. I am waiting out the flow and will upgrade to 9.8 if I see one under $150.

 

These last couple sales may be what a couple newbies are willing to pay but it isn't going to stay that high. We have all made newbie mistakes overpaying for CGC books as we come back to the hobby or find out about graded books.

 

I don't think we will see as many 9.8 PLS 1's as Wolverine LS as the census shows. You can go on Ebay and purchase any of the Wolverine LS in 9.8 on any given day but 9.8 PLS books from 1 to 5 don't come up as often. I am still waiting for a PLS #2 in 9.8 to show up for $75 or less (which I paid for my #3 - #5) but have yet to see one. There is 1 out there for $125 but that price is too high in my opinion.

[blowout]

I don't know where you got that I was soliciting investment opinions???

 

 

Because you keep continually asking anyone who will listen, whether Champions #1 or Punisher LS #1 will be worth more in five years.

 

...and worse than that, you just don't seem to get the fact that you are all alone in the Champions #1 column.

[october]

I don't know where you got that I was soliciting investment opinions???

 

 

Because you keep continually asking anyone who will listen, whether Champions #1 or Punisher LS #1 will be worth more in five years.

 

...and worse than that, you just don't seem to get the fact that you are all alone in the Champions #1 column.

 

[wormboy]

I would rather have a Champions #1 CGC 9.8 than a Punisher LS #1 CGC 9.8.

[the blob]

me too. mainly, because right now i think i'd have a better shot at making more money with the champions. isn't that punisher price just a freak occurrence and they're usually more around $200ish, whereas the few champions sales have consitently been around $400-$500?

 

but that's right now. i totally agree that 5-10 more champions 1 being found in 9.8 will impact the going rate a heck of a lot more than 5-10 or even 25 more puniher 1s

[valiantman]

...whereas the few champions sales have consitently been around $400-$500?

 

Consistent?

How many times have the 2 CGC 9.8s on the census for Champions #1 been sold?

[Ijiwaru Sensei]

I think the Invaders 1 9.8 will be worth the most among these three.

[the blob]

I'm taking the posts here at face value. I think there have been 2 champions 1s sales like that, right? So, I figure a third would probably get around there too. But a 4th and a 5th? Likely not!

 

that is, unless kalamerica goes nutso on that book and tries to horde all the copies!