MrBedrock Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 (edited) The notion of making a third category between restored and unrestored is the one I can't fathom. I don't think anyone ever has proposed that before, Bill. Is this something new? Is this a new NOD concept? Man this hobby thing is moving so fast, I go have some dinner and BOOM, another new concept to deal with! Edited August 27, 2007 by MrBedrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 The notion of making a third category between restored and unrestored is the one I can't fathom. I don't think anyone ever has proposed that before, Bill. Is this something new? Is this a new NOD concept? Man this hobby thing is moving so fast, I go have some dinner and BOOM, another new concept to deal with! Actually it is a dealer concept that I heard floating around..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 The notion of making a third category between restored and unrestored is the one I can't fathom. I don't think anyone ever has proposed that before, Bill. Is this something new? Is this a new NOD concept? Man this hobby thing is moving so fast, I go have some dinner and BOOM, another new concept to deal with! Actually it is a dealer concept that I heard floating around..... From one of those guys that you bought the overpriced restored books from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 The notion of making a third category between restored and unrestored is the one I can't fathom. I don't think anyone ever has proposed that before, Bill. Is this something new? Is this a new NOD concept? Man this hobby thing is moving so fast, I go have some dinner and BOOM, another new concept to deal with! Actually it is a dealer concept that I heard floating around..... From one of those guys that you bought the overpriced restored books from? The very same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 The notion of making a third category between restored and unrestored is the one I can't fathom. I don't think anyone ever has proposed that before, Bill. Is this something new? Is this a new NOD concept? Man this hobby thing is moving so fast, I go have some dinner and BOOM, another new concept to deal with! Actually it is a dealer concept that I heard floating around..... From one of those guys that you bought the overpriced restored books from? The very same The rotten scoundrels! I can see why you are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socratic Wonder Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 We need to implement the purple label with 50 some year old woman with massive plastic surgery!! Extensive, Professional, Amateur, and slight! Come on they all still apply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentaurMan Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 a simple stand-alone 10-point Restoration Rating System where books were rated from a scale of R-0 (no restoration) to R-10 (extensive restoration) Works for me.....that would make me an R-O collector (thumbs u ! Hooray, more phenomenal books with inconsequential resto for the rest of us! Maybe it's just me, but I love comics too much to be close-minded about what qualifies for inclusion my collection. For the right book at the right price, I'll take resto, brittle pages, trimmed, water-damaged.....hell, I'll even take Timelys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socratic Wonder Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 hell, I'll even take Timelys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action1kid Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Quote:/// Bill I think he meant resto was founded on greed because so much early resto went undetected for so many years in the hobby because it was based on deception(greed) to try and fool people into seeing something other then what was really there when selling a book. Thats what i meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Quote:/// Bill I think he meant resto was founded on greed because so much early resto went undetected for so many years in the hobby because it was based on deception(greed) to try and fool people into seeing something other then what was really there when selling a book. Thats what i meant. I know bro, I was just using your post to make a comment. The ones who color touched and tweaked the MH's were motivated by greed, pure and simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 a simple stand-alone 10-point Restoration Rating System where books were rated from a scale of R-0 (no restoration) to R-10 (extensive restoration) Works for me.....that would make me an R-O collector (thumbs u ! Not necessarily so! With a 10-point Restoration system in place, I would fully expect CGC to report on all the resto work done on a book that they can detect. As a result, I would also fully expect that some of the current blue-label books without resto notes to come back as R-1 or even R-2. After all, you have to remember that CGC's policies with respect to what actually constitutes restoration has quietly been shifting over the years. They started out with notes on certain activities and have now left out the notes. They stated that only NDP was allowed and now they seem to be alright with pressing and cleaning with staple removal, etc, etc. It seems that since they got the thumbs down on the label changes, they just might have gone ahead anyways and quietly allowed some of the conservation activities on the blue labels. Although the CGC resto check is good, you just never really know what's hding behind some of these so-called blue label "resto-free" books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action1kid Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 'They all had Golden Parachutes too' to quote another popular wall street frase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action1kid Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 What percentage of Mile High key books have slight work done to them. I think its quite a large percentage. At least half of the top ten is.At the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Point Five Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 As to the original question, I'd pick the Batman #1 in 8.5. It's such a common, common book that I could read it in the bathtub and not have to worry about it. Hey, there's always another one around the corner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikephoen Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 (edited) Sign me up for a 10 point restoration grading scale... and I think I would lean toward dumping the purple label as well...but that seems less important than the 10 point scale. The labels above though are a little convoluted... it should just be a 0 to 10 scale printed below the grade on each book, with more detailed notes in the regular location. Oh, and for what its worth, I am a dealer, a collector and a buyer of restored purple and 'semi-restored' blue label books. Edited August 27, 2007 by mikephoen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.schomburg Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Really I don't have a problem with Green, Purple or any other color of label! I don't mind one way or the other, my thoughts are very simple which is a testament to how my brain works. I just care about the knowledge behind the assigned grade, albiet restored or universal unrestored. Like many of the commentors of this thread I feel the best comic should get the best dollar in a sale. So in the case of the MF 52, reguardless of label designation or restoration, the sale is just that the highest amount paid for this particular comic. It would portray that a book in the same condition with out "work" should and most likely would sell for more. It all comes down to disclosure, and then to the buyer and the seller to make the value happen. The market, up and down determines the values of our paper treasures, not CGC, not restoration experts such as Matt N. If all is disclosed, and it should be at all times inclusive of pressing(although I see nothing wrong with it and therefore would proudly disclose it), and restoration the market will determine value. I personally would like to see restored books move away from the last 7 yrs of taboo, and in my opinion we are seeing that right now. Of course this in my opinion, and is really only relevant to the Golden age, I like the earlier statement about a seperate guide or section soley devoted to GA in the next or furture Overstreet guide. Its a different animal, conveluted, athestetically pleasing, artfully delicious, and wildly exciting market with in comics. I look at whats happening in the GA today as a second coming of the pinical of comic-dome! There is a new wave of GA collectors introducing themselfs into the grind, and with each comes new appetites and budgets and collecting goals. I hate to do this to Adam(Filter81), but what a prime example of a young guy who enters the hobby and makes a incredible collection and a living from buying and selling Golden age comics. In fact Restored books( those dinosaurs laying around unwanted are the keys to his success) Are restored books worth that much less than the untouched? Well, yes in some cases, and in others not so much. What I wouldn't give for a Overstreet completely dedicated to Golden age, with a guide for unrestored, and a guide for restored which would and should have a base restored price on minor pro restoration at level 1 then a lessening percentage as the level of restoration increases. I would also like to see the values for both sides to be based off real market values from ebay and auction houses based upon the GPA for unrestored and restored! This way a book that is so hot even pro extesive work brings 4x guide its noted, maybe not with a price in guide, but the information of the sale is in the column with the rest of guide values. I also like the idea of each issue guided seperately, not lumped together. I think its a great idea one I would pony up for every year. Gemstone would have another renuable cash cow, its a win win in my book! Man if I had that info, what a blessing that would be, GPA of all pertanant sales in the last year, restored and otherwise, values reflective of this. Then you could take the average of the current sales and stack to the guide price given, subtract or add to market condtions. It would be boon to both collectors and sellers! Not to mention bring credibility to restored books again as long term investments and treasures with the ever increasing gold factor that drives all collectors to some degree, even those who would never sell and would rather die than part with their loved popular culture art. Even those guys get tickled when they crack an overstreet after 3 or 4yrs of not looking and go holy sh$t! So here's the short list: 1. All labels good, color doesn't matter! 2. All information good-Full disclosure stablizes market and values! 3. New guide for GA with comparative sales and averaged real market values for current guide value! Key issue sales high and low with factors of books such as resto, pedigree, ect... 4.Oregon Duck football Rules! 5. and I love beer and comics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showcase4 Posted August 27, 2007 Author Share Posted August 27, 2007 a simple stand-alone 10-point Restoration Rating System where books were rated from a scale of R-0 (no restoration) to R-10 (extensive restoration) Works for me.....that would make me an R-O collector (thumbs u ! I love comics too much to be close-minded about what qualifies for inclusion my collection. I am far from "close-minded" Win...... I exclusively buy Golden Age raw books ( exception being a Tec 35 from the Detective27Kid -- already graded ) from just a few publishers that are priced a certain way, have highly deisrable and high demand characeteristics such as a classic cover, #1, origin or 1st appearance, completely unrestored, printed of a size that can be CGC graded, in VG-NM condition, with light cream or better PQ with that particular sweet, well preserved GA smell indicating the health of the book ( you know the smell ), undervalued, with a pleaseing eye appeal regardless of the grade, must be scarce to rare, have no rust on either staple, no major spine splits, water damage, missing pages or pieces, and no writing on the interior pages, with only minimal writing in pencil only on the front or back cover...........what's close-minded about that?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 a simple stand-alone 10-point Restoration Rating System where books were rated from a scale of R-0 (no restoration) to R-10 (extensive restoration) Works for me.....that would make me an R-O collector (thumbs u ! I love comics too much to be close-minded about what qualifies for inclusion my collection. I am far from "close-minded" Win...... I exclusively buy Golden Age raw books ( exception being a Tec 35 from the Detective27Kid -- already graded ) from just a few publishers that are priced a certain way, have highly deisrable and high demand characeteristics such as a classic cover, #1, origin or 1st appearance, completely unrestored, printed of a size that can be CGC graded, in VG-NM condition, with light cream or better PQ with that particular sweet, well preserved GA smell indicating the health of the book ( you know the smell ), undervalued, with a pleaseing eye appeal regardless of the grade, must be scarce to rare, have no rust on either staple, no major spine splits, water damage, missing pages or pieces, and no writing on the interior pages, with only minimal writing in pencil only on the front or back cover...........what's close-minded about that?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiveTurkeyMoFo Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 a simple stand-alone 10-point Restoration Rating System where books were rated from a scale of R-0 (no restoration) to R-10 (extensive restoration) Works for me.....that would make me an R-O collector (thumbs u ! I love comics too much to be close-minded about what qualifies for inclusion my collection. I am far from "close-minded" Win...... I exclusively buy Golden Age raw books ( exception being a Tec 35 from the Detective27Kid -- already graded ) from just a few publishers that are priced a certain way, have highly deisrable and high demand characeteristics such as a classic cover, #1, origin or 1st appearance, completely unrestored, printed of a size that can be CGC graded, in VG-NM condition, with light cream or better PQ with that particular sweet, well preserved GA smell indicating the health of the book ( you know the smell ), undervalued, with a pleaseing eye appeal regardless of the grade, must be scarce to rare, have no rust on either staple, no major spine splits, water damage, missing pages or pieces, and no writing on the interior pages, with only minimal writing in pencil only on the front or back cover...........what's close-minded about that?!! I don't know about close-minded, but your criteria is certainly self-limiting when collecting Golden Age. I know, because I only buy high grade Golden Age....the ultimate self-limiter. Ultimately, this is a hobby. And as a hobby, it has to make us happy. Owning low grade copies of the books I want wouldn't make me happy. To others, it would. You gotta stay true to what satisfies you and your collecting criteria. Of course, the longer one stays in the hobby, especially in GA, I can imagine that criteria begins to soften as the reality of scarcity and availability begins to set in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 I don't know about close-minded, but your criteria is certainly self-limiting when collecting Golden Age. I know, because I only buy high grade Golden Age....the ultimate self-limiter. Ultimately, this is a hobby. And as a hobby, it has to make us happy. Owning low grade copies of the books I want wouldn't make me happy. To others, it would. You gotta stay true to what satisfies you and your collecting criteria. Of course, the longer one stays in the hobby, especially in GA, I can imagine that criteria begins to soften as the reality of scarcity and availability begins to set in. well said... to me, I am just as happy with a vg as I am with a vf....I have been collecting for a long time (started in 1988), so maybe I have "softened", if you will...but, I was always about the book, not necessarily how pristine it is, etc (not that there is anything wrong with that...as JTM said, whatever appeals to you)...as long as I pay a fair price, relative to the disclosed condition, and I can read the book without it falling apart, then to me, that is all good rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
