Marvel #1 at Heritage -- Nov. isssue. Is Oct. a more desirable 1st printing?

[metropoliscomics]

What a real-world price difference be for comparable copies?

 

In my opinion, a November copy should be priced at 2/3 the price of an October copy.

 

S

[jkrk]

Take a look at the prices for high grade November copies. They have been selling for a bit under guide. That should tell you something.

 

I look at the current guide price for Marvel #1 and see an overinflated value if I were looking at a November copy. On the other hand, If I were pricing an October copy, I would price the book over guide.

 

S

 

Thanks. The answer makes sense although the problem might be that the book's prices are inflated no matter which issuance? However, I can see your point that it makes sense to assign a premium to the more limited printing. It appears that most collectors have blurred the difference and have consolidated both printings into one large printing which stretched over two months. My own guess is that the Nov issue is worth 85-90% of the Oct issue but I am surely shooting off the hip.

 

Regarding the Nasdq, I'm not at liberty to say on this site but you can call me for a consultation.

[jkrk]

In my opinion, a November copy should be priced at 2/3 the price of an October copy.

 

S

 

 

Oh, I see that you did give an estimate. If you wish I'll split the difference and we could call it 75-80%?

[batman_fan]

Personally, I think the Oct/Nov thing being a consideration is the level of the collector. For someone that has never owned a Marvel Comics 1, a Nov version (2nd printing) would be fine and acceptable. For someone chasing very rare books, Oct may only be acceptable, and for someone who has owned the Nov version before, "no big deal, give me an Oct version or give me nothing at all". For me, I would love to own just about any Marvel 1. As a side note, I have NEVER seen the rare Batman 1 in any form. Does anyone have a scan?

[Crowzilla]

I am not confued at all. I think you should read what Bob Overstreet says about Marvel #1. In no way does he state the Nov copy is a second print.

 

Is this the same Bob Overstreet that also lists a second printing for Eerie (magazine) #1, when the publisher has stated there is no second printing and what Bob refers to is in fact a counterfeit?

Bob authors a great resource book for the hobby (maybe the best reference tool ever despite what many think of the pricing therein), but he does the community a dis-service by not noting the second printing of Marvel #1.

I'm not suggesting a Nov. copy is worthless or anything close to it, but there seems to be enough documented evidence that the notations in the guide need to change.

The write-up in the guide regarding Marvel #1 was first done I think in OPG#6 and has basically stayed the same since that time. Research has since brought a lot of new information to light and there is no reason not to update the guide with what we now know to be true.

[Timely]

I am with Stephen here and think West must be very confused.

There is a huge difference between a second printing of a book/comic and a comic that is compilation of material much of which is reprinted from elsewhere.

 

Of course 8 pages of Marvel #1 are also reprints, but let's not confuse things even more...

 

And I don't see what difference the value makes as to establishing what is a true 1st printing vs. a second printing.

Heck a Gutengerb Bible is certainly all reprinted material, but for some reason many collectors tend to place a high value on it because of how it was compiled and presented.(and yes they differentiate values between 1st and 2nd printings)

 

I am not confued at all. I think you should read what Bob Overstreet says about Marvel #1. In no way does he state the Nov copy is a second print.

 

West

 

 

 

 

Yes. Out of deference to all the November copy owners, the listing in the guide regarding this matter is rather useless.

 

I have owned 18 November copies over the years and 2 October copies.

 

S

 

I am sure you have. What I am saying is just because a printer stops printing, changes something and then prints more copies that stoppage does not mean every copy after that is a second print. Most comics today have 2 versions, newstand & direct yet both are 1st prints even though there are clear difference. Variants are also different yet still considered 1st prints.

 

West

 

In the case of Marvel #1, the existence of different printings have nothing to do with the printer's decision or frame of mind. It has everything to do with Martin Goodman's decision and frame of mind. He ordered 90K copies to be printed and distributed. And was shocked when the book sold out in a manner of days. Having never marketed a comic book before, he soon experienced a crash course in the business of selling comic books.

 

He soon ordered a print run of 900K copies approx. 10 days later.

 

S

 

One other fact that does not compute is that the Mile High copy is a November issue. Edgar Church was steadily buying from the Reader's Guild. How come he did not get the October copy? Surely it was ordered. Are we to assume the October copies only circulated in NY or the East Coast area & none made it out any further? If that is the case maybe due to postal concerns the November copies were made with the longer self-life date so they could be sent further. I think there are too many possibilities to just assume the November copies are 2nd prints. Even if the machines were turned back on 10 minutes, 10 hours or 10 days later does it really make a difference? I guess to some it does.

Also if the November stamp was not added we would never know. Is it possible other GA issues sold out and the machines were turned back on? Yes. We know that has happened because of other GA comics with tiny printing differences, like the All-Star #3 with different advertisements. Makes you wonder what GA comics were printed again with no changes made.

 

West

[action1kid]

Now this is getting interesting.

[jkrk]

I'm not suggesting a Nov. copy is worthless or anything close to it, but there seems to be enough documented evidence that the notations in the guide need to change.

 

 

That's the final straw. If I ever buy a Nov copy I'm just going to use it to light the wood stove.

[Crowzilla]

One other fact that does not compute is that the Mile High copy is a November issue. Edgar Church was steadily buying from the Reader's Guild. How come he did not get the October copy? Surely it was ordered. Are we to assume the October copies only circulated in NY or the East Coast area & none made it out any further? If that is the case maybe due to postal concerns the November copies were made with the longer self-life date so they could be sent further. I think there are too many possibilities to just assume the November copies are 2nd prints. Even if the machines were turned back on 10 minutes, 10 hours or 10 days later does it really make a difference?

 

The Church thing used to bother me too and was one of the points I made when we first discussed the second printing. But regional distribution is a fact of life and Marvel #1 would not be the only book to at first receive regional distribution.

And YES, it makes a difference when you go back in and turn on the machines. If you travel down the slippery slope you suggested, does it then make a difference if you go back 10 months or 10 years (to continue your example)? And if it does make a difference, where is the cut-off point? And if it doesn't make a difference, could I then go back to press on a book if I were to use the original printing plates/machines and it would still be a first print?

[Forbush-Man]

I am with Stephen here and think West must be very confused.

There is a huge difference between a second printing of a book/comic and a comic that is compilation of material much of which is reprinted from elsewhere.

 

Of course 8 pages of Marvel #1 are also reprints, but let's not confuse things even more...

 

And I don't see what difference the value makes as to establishing what is a true 1st printing vs. a second printing.

Heck a Gutengerb Bible is certainly all reprinted material, but for some reason many collectors tend to place a high value on it because of how it was compiled and presented.(and yes they differentiate values between 1st and 2nd printings)

 

I am not confued at all. I think you should read what Bob Overstreet says about Marvel #1. In no way does he state the Nov copy is a second print.

 

West

 

 

 

 

Yes. Out of deference to all the November copy owners, the listing in the guide regarding this matter is rather useless.

 

I have owned 18 November copies over the years and 2 October copies.

 

S

 

I am sure you have. What I am saying is just because a printer stops printing, changes something and then prints more copies that stoppage does not mean every copy after that is a second print. Most comics today have 2 versions, newstand & direct yet both are 1st prints even though there are clear difference. Variants are also different yet still considered 1st prints.

 

West

 

In the case of Marvel #1, the existence of different printings have nothing to do with the printer's decision or frame of mind. It has everything to do with Martin Goodman's decision and frame of mind. He ordered 90K copies to be printed and distributed. And was shocked when the book sold out in a manner of days. Having never marketed a comic book before, he soon experienced a crash course in the business of selling comic books.

 

He soon ordered a print run of 900K copies approx. 10 days later.

 

S

 

One other fact that does not compute is that the Mile High copy is a November issue. Edgar Church was steadily buying from the Reader's Guild. How come he did not get the October copy? Surely it was ordered. Are we to assume the October copies only circulated in NY or the East Coast area & none made it out any further? If that is the case maybe due to postal concerns the November copies were made with the longer self-life date so they could be sent further. I think there are too many possibilities to just assume the November copies are 2nd prints. Even if the machines were turned back on 10 minutes, 10 hours or 10 days later does it really make a difference? I guess to some it does.

Also if the November stamp was not added we would never know. Is it possible other GA issues sold out and the machines were turned back on? Yes. We know that has happened because of other GA comics with tiny printing differences, like the All-Star #3 with different advertisements. Makes you wonder what GA comics were printed again with no changes made.

 

West

 

Interesting. What other GA books do you know of which have second printings distinguished by suttle diferences?

 

[action1kid]

There really are very very few Oct copies. How many do you know of West?

Anybody?

[metropoliscomics]

I am with Stephen here and think West must be very confused.

There is a huge difference between a second printing of a book/comic and a comic that is compilation of material much of which is reprinted from elsewhere.

 

Of course 8 pages of Marvel #1 are also reprints, but let's not confuse things even more...

 

And I don't see what difference the value makes as to establishing what is a true 1st printing vs. a second printing.

Heck a Gutengerb Bible is certainly all reprinted material, but for some reason many collectors tend to place a high value on it because of how it was compiled and presented.(and yes they differentiate values between 1st and 2nd printings)

 

I am not confued at all. I think you should read what Bob Overstreet says about Marvel #1. In no way does he state the Nov copy is a second print.

 

West

 

 

 

 

Yes. Out of deference to all the November copy owners, the listing in the guide regarding this matter is rather useless.

 

I have owned 18 November copies over the years and 2 October copies.

 

S

 

I am sure you have. What I am saying is just because a printer stops printing, changes something and then prints more copies that stoppage does not mean every copy after that is a second print. Most comics today have 2 versions, newstand & direct yet both are 1st prints even though there are clear difference. Variants are also different yet still considered 1st prints.

 

West

 

In the case of Marvel #1, the existence of different printings have nothing to do with the printer's decision or frame of mind. It has everything to do with Martin Goodman's decision and frame of mind. He ordered 90K copies to be printed and distributed. And was shocked when the book sold out in a manner of days. Having never marketed a comic book before, he soon experienced a crash course in the business of selling comic books.

 

He soon ordered a print run of 900K copies approx. 10 days later.

 

S

 

One other fact that does not compute is that the Mile High copy is a November issue. Edgar Church was steadily buying from the Reader's Guild. How come he did not get the October copy? Surely it was ordered. Are we to assume the October copies only circulated in NY or the East Coast area & none made it out any further? If that is the case maybe due to postal concerns the November copies were made with the longer self-life date so they could be sent further. I think there are too many possibilities to just assume the November copies are 2nd prints. Even if the machines were turned back on 10 minutes, 10 hours or 10 days later does it really make a difference? I guess to some it does.

Also if the November stamp was not added we would never know. Is it possible other GA issues sold out and the machines were turned back on? Yes. We know that has happened because of other GA comics with tiny printing differences, like the All-Star #3 with different advertisements. Makes you wonder what GA comics were printed again with no changes made.

 

West

 

The 90,000 October copies were only distributed on the east coast. If Goodman had not gone back to press, Edgar Church would have never gotten a copy. He may have had to settle on a second hand October copy at some point down the road.

 

The only original owner October copies have come from the east coast. That is to the best of my knowledge.

 

S

 

S

[metropoliscomics]

Can anyone point to an October Marvel #1 that DID NOT originate on the east coast?

 

Stephen

[adamstrange]

I am with Stephen here and think West must be very confused.

There is a huge difference between a second printing of a book/comic and a comic that is compilation of material much of which is reprinted from elsewhere.

 

Of course 8 pages of Marvel #1 are also reprints, but let's not confuse things even more...

 

And I don't see what difference the value makes as to establishing what is a true 1st printing vs. a second printing.

Heck a Gutengerb Bible is certainly all reprinted material, but for some reason many collectors tend to place a high value on it because of how it was compiled and presented.(and yes they differentiate values between 1st and 2nd printings)

 

I am not confued at all. I think you should read what Bob Overstreet says about Marvel #1. In no way does he state the Nov copy is a second print.

 

West

 

 

 

 

Yes. Out of deference to all the November copy owners, the listing in the guide regarding this matter is rather useless.

 

I have owned 18 November copies over the years and 2 October copies.

 

S

 

I am sure you have. What I am saying is just because a printer stops printing, changes something and then prints more copies that stoppage does not mean every copy after that is a second print. Most comics today have 2 versions, newstand & direct yet both are 1st prints even though there are clear difference. Variants are also different yet still considered 1st prints.

 

West

 

In the case of Marvel #1, the existence of different printings have nothing to do with the printer's decision or frame of mind. It has everything to do with Martin Goodman's decision and frame of mind. He ordered 90K copies to be printed and distributed. And was shocked when the book sold out in a manner of days. Having never marketed a comic book before, he soon experienced a crash course in the business of selling comic books.

 

He soon ordered a print run of 900K copies approx. 10 days later.

 

S

 

One other fact that does not compute is that the Mile High copy is a November issue. Edgar Church was steadily buying from the Reader's Guild. How come he did not get the October copy? Surely it was ordered. Are we to assume the October copies only circulated in NY or the East Coast area & none made it out any further? If that is the case maybe due to postal concerns the November copies were made with the longer self-life date so they could be sent further. I think there are too many possibilities to just assume the November copies are 2nd prints. Even if the machines were turned back on 10 minutes, 10 hours or 10 days later does it really make a difference? I guess to some it does.

Also if the November stamp was not added we would never know. Is it possible other GA issues sold out and the machines were turned back on? Yes. We know that has happened because of other GA comics with tiny printing differences, like the All-Star #3 with different advertisements. Makes you wonder what GA comics were printed again with no changes made.

 

West

 

Interesting. What other GA books do you know of which have second printings distinguished by suttle diferences?

 

 

There are several GA books that were printed in different variations, but lacking knowledge from the publisher, we don't necessarily know whether they are reprints or corrections or just plain sloppy printing. For example, post WWII Fox books often had the same issue published on different colors of paper as well as different cover stocks. I think the likely scenario is cheap/sloppy printing but really all we know is that there is a difference, not what it means.

 

In the case of Marvel 1, we have information from the publisher concerning the second printing and it is consistent with the changed pull-date on the cover. These together make it reasonable to assume the Nov copies are a second printing.

[Forbush-Man]

But so far we've identified books which are/possibly are second printings:

 

Marvel Comics # 1

All-Star # 3

Superman # 1

Batman # 1

 

What others could be added?

[topofthetotem]

But so far we've identified books which are/possibly are second printings:

 

Marvel Comics # 1

All-Star # 3

Superman # 1

Batman # 1

 

What others could be added?

I heard a radio interview with Shuster a while back the host said that the success of action comics was a surprise and additional copies were printed of action #1 (like 3 additional printings if IIRC.)

[Arty]

But so far we've identified books which are/possibly are second printings:

 

Marvel Comics # 1

All-Star # 3

Superman # 1

Batman # 1

 

What others could be added?

 

There is a variant WDC&S #1 with a tiny black star on upper left corner. Are there different printings, I have no idea.

[esquirecomics]

Also there are 2 different versions of All Star Comics #3 with different ads. CGC has graded both versions.

 

West, does CGC note the distinction on the label or in the grader's notes?

[markseifert]

The only original owner October copies have come from the east coast. That is to the best of my knowledge.

 

S

 

Thanks for this info. I've been wondering about this for a while myself. Can you elaborate a little on where the known original owner October copies have come from? I guess what I'm wondering specifically is it limited to New York area or is it a wider area than that?

 

I believe it has been speculated that one of the Superman #1 printings was for New York distribution.

 

By the way, here is a little bit of info that has been linked to a couple times here, about print runs for Supes #1 and #2 various printings. The source was a large list of GA Audit Bureau of Circulation numbers compiled by Russ Maheras, and I presume in cases like this Supes data combined with data from other sources (because ABC numbers are for groups of titles). I'd like to be able to link to the source but I can't find it online anymore.

 

What this doesn't take into account is when DC listed SUPERMAN #1 (Summer) which appeared for sale in June 1939 with the following history:

 

#1 FIRST PRINT 500,000

#1 2ND PRINT 250,000

#1 3RD PRINT 150,000

TOTAL 900,000

 

***************************

 

We need to figure out when SUPERMAN #2 2nd and 3rd printings came out to

factor the numbers plus SUPERMAN #2 appeared towards the end of 1939:

 

#2 FIRST PRINT 850,000

#2 2ND PRINT 150,000

TOTAL 1,000,000

 

[Forbush-Man]

But so far we've identified books which are/possibly are second printings:

 

Marvel Comics # 1

All-Star # 3

Superman # 1& 2

Batman # 1

 

What others could be added?

 

Added Superman # 2 as "possible".

 

I'd think if there is little price difference between known 1st printings and later printings, it would be because the general collecting population is, for the most part, unaware of this.

 

That much more reason to distinguish the books possible additional printings.