Flash collectors thread 25 25

[Terry E. Gibbs]

154 !!! I am deliberately holding back on some SA stuff and some stuff that I will argue relates to SA, as I want to keep these pages ticking over slowly just to enjoy each one. Does anyone have any idea when the Flash SA ends. You could argue it is still going today,but most dealers would disagree (either that or jack up last years prices on the 2019 books by 1000%). To me it ends with 175, be interesting where our thread goes then.

[flashlites]

8 hours ago, Terry E. Gibbs said:

154 !!! I am deliberately holding back on some SA stuff and some stuff that I will argue relates to SA, as I want to keep these pages ticking over slowly just to enjoy each one. Does anyone have any idea when the Flash SA ends. You could argue it is still going today,but most dealers would disagree (either that or jack up last years prices on the 2019 books by 1000%). To me it ends with 175, be interesting where our thread goes then.

I would consider all 15-centers still Silver Age personally, but I know most say that is the beginning of the bronze age. Does anyone know where they draw the line officially these days?

[flashlites]

8 hours ago, Terry E. Gibbs said:

I am deliberately holding back on some SA stuff and some stuff that I will argue relates to SA

Cant wait to see it Terry! You never disappoint, its going to be amazing i'm sure!!!

[Jaylam]

1 hour ago, flashlites said:

I would consider all 15-centers still Silver Age personally, but I know most say that is the beginning of the bronze age. Does anyone know where they draw the line officially these days?

I thought it was pretty much considered that the beginning if the Bronze Age was with Green Lantern/Green Arrow #76 which came out in February 1970! Giant Size Flash #196 came out that same month, so that would make Flash #197 the first Flash Bronze Age issue with new material using GL/GA #76 as the threshold.

[Terry E. Gibbs]

9 hours ago, Jaylam said:

I thought it was pretty much considered that the beginning if the Bronze Age was with Green Lantern/Green Arrow #76 which came out in February 1970! Giant Size Flash #196 came out that same month, so that would make Flash #197 the first Flash Bronze Age issue with new material using GL/GA #76 as the threshold.

I think DC & Marvel have different endings to their silver age. I agree that for DC those Denny O'Neil social conscience books starting with GL 76 started a whole new era, but some marvel fans think it was 1968 when the distribution limit was lifted off their books and iron man 1# was released along with many others and a hoard that followed. I first remember my early comic mentor Roger Morrison (" here .. hold Tec 31 .. hasn't it got a great cover " !!)  telling me he thought it started with the death of Gwen Stacy and I could see that was a turning point as well. Will have to think more on this and see what else came about in DC 1970. Was lucky enough to have had a small chat with Neal when he was not busy at last years ECCC, and he told me GL came about because they were considering canning the book. It was not selling (not enough Broome Sci-Fi in my opinion - actually I think John had been punted by then).  Think that marvel expansion really hit DC. Maybe the SA ended when they punted Broome,  Arnold Drake (creator Doom patrol Deadman)  and Gil Kane left as well. DC comics had been a river of gold for it's owners ever since Action 1 and Tec 27 and they just were too greedy to know what they were strangling. 

[Terry E. Gibbs]

11 hours ago, flashlites said:

Cant wait to see it Terry! You never disappoint, its going to be amazing i'm sure!!!

No pressure Terry no pressure 

[frozentundraguy]

1 hour ago, Terry E. Gibbs said:

I think DC & Marvel have different endings to their silver age. I agree that for DC those Denny O'Neil social conscience books starting with GL 76 started a whole new era, but some marvel fans think it was 1968 when the distribution limit was lifted off their books and iron man 1# was released along with many others and a hoard that followed. I first remember my early comic mentor Roger Morrison (" here .. hold Tec 31 .. hasn't it got a great cover " !!)  telling me he thought it started with the death of Gwen Stacy and I could see that was a turning point as well. Will have to think more on this and see what else came about in DC 1970. Was lucky enough to have had a small chat with Neal when he was not busy at last years ECCC, and he told me GL came about because they were considering canning the book. It was not selling (not enough Broome Sci-Fi in my opinion - actually I think John had been punted by then).  Think that marvel expansion really hit DC. Maybe the SA ended when they punted Broome,  Arnold Drake (creator Doom patrol Deadman)  and Gil Kane left as well. DC comics had been a river of gold for it's owners ever since Action 1 and Tec 27 and they just were too greedy to know what they were strangling. 

There are quite a few thoughts on when the Silver age ended. Was it the end of the 12 cent issue? Could it have been in 1973 when Gwen Stacy was killed, this killing the end of innocence?  Was it in October of 1970 when new direction grittier comic books like Conan the Barbarian started? For me it ended with the publishing of Green Lantern #76.

On a related note there was a discussion on the boards a few years back on "when did the Silver age begin, title by Title?"

 

[Terry E. Gibbs]

My reader although the keeper is maybe only marginally better. At least the PQ is great.

[Jaylam]

There’s a panel in #154 that immediately made me think of an original Star Trek episode where the antagonists were a race of people that lived at a hyper-accelerated rate and were perceived by the crew of the Enterprise as a buzzing sound as they could not be seen because they were moving so fast, (Wink of an Eye, season 3, episode 11, air date Nov. 29, 1968). This panel similarly describes the crooks hearing a humming sound as the Flash moves about them. 

[flashlites]

1 hour ago, Jaylam said:

There’s a panel in #154 that immediately made me think of an original Star Trek episode where the antagonists were a race of people that lived at a hyper-accelerated rate and were perceived by the crew of the Enterprise as a buzzing sound as they could not be seen because they were moving so fast, (Wink of an Eye, season 3, episode 11, air date Nov. 29, 1968). This panel similarly describes the crooks hearing a humming sound as the Flash moves about them. 

Ah ha! Another Trekkie/Flash fan!!! I should have known! Love those original episodes!!!

[flashlites]

Just thought I'd put these last 2 issues up side by side for a moment, to discuss. Very different cover styles, 153 looks like it could have been published in the 1970's where as 154 looks kinda like it could have been published in the late 1950's? Look at that car in 154? And the sort of very early whimsical design and concept. I always thought it was kinda odd. Thoughts?....

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by flashlites
Correction

[comicjack]

14 minutes ago, flashlites said:

Just thought I'd put these last 2 issues up side by side for a moment, to discuss. Very different cover styles, 153 looks like it could have been published in the 1970's where as 154 looks kinda like it could have been published in the late 1950's? Look at that car in 154? And the sort of very early whimsical design and concept. I always thought it was kinda odd. Thoughts?....

 

 

Got to remember who was doing the cover looks like a 50's Caddy or similar car .They did look like that just a few years prior to those covers 

[Jaylam]

That car on the cover of Flash 154 looks very much like a 1961-1964 Cadillac convertible. 1961 pictured below.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Jaylam

[comicjack]

2 hours ago, Jaylam said:

That car on the cover of Flash 154 looks very much like a 1961-1964 Cadillac convertible. 1961 pictured below.

Good detective i wasn't sure on that one 

[Terry E. Gibbs]

Yeah that cover on 154 never grabbed me, probably why I never upgraded. I think ASM had a super villain almost every issue (maybe 24 was not) in the first 50, and Flash was a mix of Rogues and Sci-Fi with more general stuff thrown in. Think Julie had the mix right although I am pretty sure I know which of those two issues sold the most.

[Jaylam]

1 hour ago, Terry E. Gibbs said:

Yeah that cover on 154 never grabbed me, probably why I never upgraded. I think ASM had a super villain almost every issue (maybe 24 was not) in the first 50, and Flash was a mix of Rogues and Sci-Fi with more general stuff thrown in. Think Julie had the mix right although I am pretty sure I know which of those two issues sold the most.

Flash’s head on that #154 cover looks like it’s in an impossible position in relation to the rest of the body.

[flashlites]

21 minutes ago, Jaylam said:

Flash’s head on that #154 cover looks like it’s in an impossible position in relation to the rest of the body.

I know, and after I went on and on about the master...lol. I agree its not right. Did Carmine really do this cover? Let me check...yep he's listed as pencils for this cover. My thought has been that this was kind of 2nd option story that they had to go with due to time constraints or something. Its a Gardner Fox story. 

[frozentundraguy]

15 hours ago, flashlites said:

I know, and after I went on and on about the master...lol. I agree its not right. Did Carmine really do this cover? Let me check...yep he's listed as pencils for this cover. My thought has been that this was kind of 2nd option story that they had to go with due to time constraints or something. Its a Gardner Fox story. 

In a similar vein I have often wondered if the artist was rushed when there are large white figures on the cover of a comic book. Issue #141 of Flash is an example of this.

[Math Teacher]

17 hours ago, flashlites said:

I know, and after I went on and on about the master...lol. I agree its not right. Did Carmine really do this cover? Let me check...yep he's listed as pencils for this cover. My thought has been that this was kind of 2nd option story that they had to go with due to time constraints or something. Its a Gardner Fox story. 

FYI - When I talked with Joe Giella about the commission he did for me, we chatted about the comics he worked on. He was one of the most friendly comic creators that I have ever spoken to. I remember one thing he said in particular, "Carmine's pencils were VERY loose."

As much as I like infantino's work on the Flash and other books, I think some credit should be given to Joe Giella and Murphy Anderson too.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Joe Ankenbauer

[Terry E. Gibbs]

and Sid Greene, DC had some amazing artists working as inkers back then. Infantino had great page design. A great vision he could bring to a page. Joe was lucky, a guy not much talked about Frank McLaughlin inked him in his bronze run, and yep if you see those original pages the pencils are often much more, stylised than Frank's inks. I really don't think Flash fans were ready for where Carmine was aiming flash by the ned of the run. I had heard though that carmine did give Frank credit and say he was one of his best inkers. #215–218, 221–222, 226–227, 229–232, 237–239, 241–249, 252–258, 262–270, 277, 325, 329–350. I think Frank actually inked more Flash than any other inker.