No More Grades, Just BIG NUMBERS!

[C. Richard Hunt]

numbers? letters?

it does not matter.

they all taste the same to me.

[garthgantu]

 

Hey Garth... don't take it to the extreme now. I'm not that whacked!

I know there's a limit to how far you can take a protest otherwise anyone with a problem with any company would likely live in the woods with a spear and have a fur wardrobe.

 

So now you're making fun of my attire?!? Grrr.....

[garthgantu]

I heard from a reliable source that due to overwhelming demand from the burgeoning Japanese market, beginning in February of 2004, CGC will be adding the letter grades back to the labels, but will be doing so in kanji...

 

So now we're moving to the 20,000-point alpha system? This could get tricky...

[garthgantu]

Great post, Joanna...

 

400+ posts into this thread and we still have people making a whole lot of sense, on both sides of the discussion... It's a shame more threads don't turn out this well...

The reason that this thread has stayed on track is that I have stayed out of it!

 

What's your hourly fee for this service? I think we might wanna pool our money...

[garthgantu]

Vince,

 

Regarding your boycott of big number books: The person you are really hurting is the seller, not CGC. CGC already got their fees. And what if the seller sent the books in with absolutely no idea that the label would change? It's not like everyone knew about this months in advance. For example, last month I sent in two standard submissions. Like everyone else, I assumed they'd come back looking like every other CGC'd book, with a number and a letter grade. They didn't. They came back with big numbers. Pretending for a moment that you had wanted one of my books -- how much would CGC be hurt by your not buying them, and how much would I be hurt by your not buying them? I would speculate that the former: not at all, and the latter: a lot. Yet I had no knowledge of the new label, and no control over getting one.

 

I can understand the practice of boycotting getting new books slabbed, if you want to vote with your dollar. That makes plenty of sense. But boycotting books that are already slabbed feels so indirect as to be a very ineffectual way of voting with your dollar.

 

Unless you can't stand the sight of the new label, and then you shouldn't buy it for that reason. Not to "hurt CGC" but just as a personal thing.

 

-- Joanna

 

On the one hand your point is very valid, Joanna; on the other, I would argue there is an indirect affect that boycotting your "numeric-only" slabs could have on CGC. If I buy one of your numeric-only books, you don't necessarily have any reason to stop submitting books to CGC. If I boycott said books, you may think twice about submitting more books. It's the trickle-up theory, and as I stated before on this thread, it's probably "too little, too late" in terms of actually impacting CGC. But I still advocate doing it, because obviously moaning, gnashing of teeth, and posting to this board have no effect in that regard.

[garthgantu]

numbers? letters?

it does not matter.

they all taste the same to me.

 

Any Wolverton fan is okay by me... not necessarily sane, mind you, but okay by me...

[garthgantu]

Who would be in favor of a further dilution of the accepted Numerical System to more accurately reflect what a high grade comic could/should be?

 

As I said before, an extension of the current numerical grades into the 9.X and 8.X ranges is the only sane reason to delete the alpha grades. It would also make CGC a ton of cash from re-subs of expensive CGC 8.5 and 9.2 comics, all hoping for a bit more gravy on their taters.

 

I think this may be part of the strategy. At first blush, it sounds like something the Lone Gunmen would dream up...but let's face it, a significant % of all slabbed books would be sent back in a hurry if that 8.5 looked to the owner like a potential 8.8, and the book in question was a reasonably pricey one in high grade.

 

Now, it would be awfully tough to move to this "100-point system" if the historic "alpha baggage" had to somehow be carted along... what the hell would an 8.8 be, anyway, a VF+++/NM- ?? It don' work, mon...

 

So I don't think this is all that fantastical an idea.

 

If I'm CGC, I've been sweating for awhile now, 'cause even tho the subs are flowing in at a fairly steady rate (I'm guessing), there's no doubt that the number "likely suspects" for slabbing are getting thinner, especially in the GA and SA genres. (As for BA and modern books, there's competition in those parts of the market already, with more on the way.) I'm convinced there's more to this shift in labeling than just "a service for the near-sighted funnybook collectors," as has been proposed by CGC.

[joe_collector]

Pretending for a moment that you had wanted one of my books -- how much would CGC be hurt by your not buying them, and how much would I be hurt by your not buying them?

 

In any war there are casualties.

 

But honestly, the only CGC market I help prop up is the X-Men 94-143 segment, along with a limited number of issues in other Bronze areas. I don't see anyone worrying about the impact of my boycott.

[joe_collector]

If you can't see that I've made a decent point here... I guess I'll have to accept the fact that you still have trouble acknowledging good points that are not your own.

 

Now let's keep this simple. I have three choices:

 

1) Drop CGC entirely and buy only Raw

 

2) I buy only CGC comics that fit my buying needs. ie. Blue or Brown labels.

 

3) I buy everything CGC and eat the BIG NUMBER grass like everyone else.

 

Now let's assume that I still want to complete a few runs of CGC NM/9.4 or higher comics, then that negates Option 1. Since I detest the new BIG NUMBER label with an absolute passion, that negates Option 3.

 

So that leaves....

 

P.S. Why is this so hard to grasp?

[joe_collector]

Maybe... you could also start taking a dump in your front yard to keep skinheads from moving into your neighborhood...

 

The King of Analogies strikes again!

 

I'm still wondering what crapping on your own lawn has to do with me buying only Brown and Old Blue Label CGC books?

 

At the end of the day I will have... a nice set of CGC comics with the info I desire.

 

At the end of the day you will have a .... smelly, feces-filled lawn.

[joe_collector]

If I'm CGC, I've been sweating for awhile now, 'cause even tho the subs are flowing in at a fairly steady rate (I'm guessing), there's no doubt that the number "likely suspects" for slabbing are getting thinner, especially in the GA and SA genres.

 

I remember awhile back when Heritage stated that CGC arbitrage will become a larger part of the business as time goes on. Double and triple-dipping is what helped make coinees and cardees big bucks and comics are no different.

 

CGC may be looking to hasten that process through creation of new 9.X and 8.X grades.

[lighthouse]

If you can't see that I've made a decent point here... I guess I'll have to accept the fact that you still have trouble acknowledging good points that are not your own.

 

Now let's keep this simple. I have three choices:

 

1) Drop CGC entirely and buy on Raw

 

2) I buy only CGC comics that fit my buying needs. ie. Blue or Brown labels.

 

3) I buy everything CGC and eat the BIG NUMBER grass like everyone else.

 

Now let's assume that I still want to complete a few runs of CGC NM/9.4 or higher comics, then that negates Option 1. Since I detest the new BIG NUMBER label with an absolute passion, that negates Option 2.

 

So that leaves....

 

P.S. Why is this so hard to grasp?

 

Ummm... you sure there isn't a typo there, JC?

[joe_collector]

Ummm... you sure there isn't a typo there, JC?

 

Well DUH! Type fast, reply to multiple messages and [!@#%^&^] happens.

 

If you guys want to get into spelling and grammar-police mode, I'm the man for the job.

[joe_collector]

I'd like to call an end to this thread, as it's degenerating into a Dealers/Specs vs. JC funfest like all the others.

 

People that stand to gain or lose $$$ due to CGC's appeal in the marketplace are a voracious bunch, and I'd like them to chew on someone else's butt for awhile.

[Joanna]

 

On the one hand your point is very valid, Joanna; on the other, I would argue there is an indirect affect that boycotting your "numeric-only" slabs could have on CGC. If I buy one of your numeric-only books, you don't necessarily have any reason to stop submitting books to CGC. If I boycott said books, you may think twice about submitting more books.

 

This would be true only if:

 

1. You communicated the reason you didn't buy ("I don't buy big number CGC books)

2. You'd be willing to pay the same amount for Raw as CGC

 

Under these circumstances, I could accomodate you.

 

Right now, I can't put a note in with an order saying "please use the alpha label, not the big number label on this order." I can either slab and get a big number, or I can sell raw. I don't have any stockpiles of CGC'd books. I just have comics. If I find a NM book that I think is worth grading, and I send it to CGC, it will get a big number label. If I sell it raw, everyone will assume I can't grade and am trying to rip them off or the book is retouched or any of the other things that people say about sellers who sell high grade raw books. Do you think anyone would look at the auction and think, "She's obviously protesting the lack of the alpha grade by selling that book raw. I think I'll buy it and pay the same price I would for a graded book."

 

Boycott all you want. That's your right. I'm just saying that it's so indirect in terms of who you're trying to hurt, that it won't be effective. You'll hurt the sellers, who have no control over the label, not CGC.

 

Because as long as buyers are willing to spend more on graded books, sellers will send their raw books to CGC.

 

-- Joanna

[ArAich]

I'd like to call an end to this thread,

 

It's beyond your control....you've spawned a monster....

[lighthouse]

I'd like to call an end to this thread, as it's degenerating into a Dealers/Specs vs. JC funfest like all the others.

 

People that stand to gain or lose $$$ due to CGC's appeal in the marketplace are a voracious bunch, and I'd like them to chew on someone else's butt for awhile.

 

I don't recall ever participating in a "vs JC funfest," and I don't believe this thread is one either. If anything this thread has accomplished what every good debate hopes to. The people on both sides have learned more about why they hold the positions they do as a result of defending them.

 

My last "typo" reply was intended to help you make your case more clearly, nothing more. I respect your position here, and wouldn't want your message misinterpreted... Believe it or not, not everyone on the forums checks in every day, and many of our forum members probably haven't even seen this thread yet.

 

My feces-filled lawn aside, I doubt that CGC would change their label as a result of declining sales. If sales decline, the CGC leadership will certainly try to find out why, and will make the changes they feel are appropriate. But I doubt they will reach the conclusion that changing the label is the answer. More likely they would adjust their marketing campaign or adjust their pricing. So expecting that a future sales decline will result in a return to a label design you prefer is unrealistic.

 

You can, however, voice your concerns directly to CGC before this future sales decline occurs. If you have a strong opinion about the changes they have made, and you feel that others will agree with your position, then address CGC directly. Ask like-minded collectors to join in signing a statement of your position. Gather together a few hundred people and unite under the same message. CGC will listen. Any business would. They may or may not adopt your proposed course of action, but I guarantee you they will listen.

 

Expecting them to change corporate policy based on a message board thread is insane. This board exists for our entertainment and little more than that. The regulars here have formed a community of sorts, but ultimately this board exists for our entertainment. This isn't a legislature, it's a message board. And a company that would make a decision based on what the people on a message board happen to say that week would be a short-lived company indeed.

 

Vince, you clearly feel strongly about this subject. You are more than capable of articulating your views. If you want to effect change, then do it the right way. Put together a statement of some kind, get some people behind you, and take it to CGC in a manner they will respond to.

 

People here whine and complain about the things that bother them because that's what groups of friends do. But that's all this forum is. It's a group of like-minded people chatting about every topic under the sun. If you want to sit around drinking beer and swapping lies about who has the dumber boss or the crazier ebay seller or worst-looking scan, this is the place. But if you want to take it beyond that, do it the right way...

 

And I'll tell you what... You put something together, and I will sign it. Even though I personally disagree with your position, if you take the time to do this the right way, I will lend my voice to the cause.

[FlyingDonut]

I'd like to call an end to this thread, as it's degenerating into a Dealers/Specs vs. JC funfest like all the others.

 

People that stand to gain or lose $$$ due to CGC's appeal in the marketplace are a voracious bunch, and I'd like them to chew on someone else's butt for awhile.

 

I don't recall ever participating in a "vs JC funfest," and I don't believe this thread is one either. If anything this thread has accomplished what every good debate hopes to. The people on both sides have learned more about why they hold the positions they do as a result of defending them.

 

My last "typo" reply was intended to help you make your case more clearly, nothing more. I respect your position here, and wouldn't want your message misinterpreted... Believe it or not, not everyone on the forums checks in every day, and many of our forum members probably haven't even seen this thread yet.

 

My feces-filled lawn aside, I doubt that CGC would change their label as a result of declining sales. If sales decline, the CGC leadership will certainly try to find out why, and will make the changes they feel are appropriate. But I doubt they will reach the conclusion that changing the label is the answer. More likely they would adjust their marketing campaign or adjust their pricing. So expecting that a future sales decline will result in a return to a label design you prefer is unrealistic.

 

You can, however, voice your concerns directly to CGC before this future sales decline occurs. If you have a strong opinion about the changes they have made, and you feel that others will agree with your position, then address CGC directly. Ask like-minded collectors to join in signing a statement of your position. Gather together a few hundred people and unite under the same message. CGC will listen. Any business would. They may or may not adopt your proposed course of action, but I guarantee you they will listen.

 

Expecting them to change corporate policy based on a message board thread is insane. This board exists for our entertainment and little more than that. The regulars here have formed a community of sorts, but ultimately this board exists for our entertainment. This isn't a legislature, it's a message board. And a company that would make a decision based on what the people on a message board happen to say that week would be a short-lived company indeed.

 

Vince, you clearly feel strongly about this subject. You are more than capable of articulating your views. If you want to effect change, then do it the right way. Put together a statement of some kind, get some people behind you, and take it to CGC in a manner they will respond to.

 

People here whine and complain about the things that bother them because that's what groups of friends do. But that's all this forum is. It's a group of like-minded people chatting about every topic under the sun. If you want to sit around drinking beer and swapping lies about who has the dumber boss or the crazier ebay seller or worst-looking scan, this is the place. But if you want to take it beyond that, do it the right way...

 

And I'll tell you what... You put something together, and I will sign it. Even though I personally disagree with your position, if you take the time to do this the right way, I will lend my voice to the cause.

 

Excellent post. I think several people would sign a legitimate petition. I'd sign it - I think the new label is ugly, and, after just getting a book back (Wolvermint ROCKS) that I wanted for my FF collection, I note that the nifty NM/MT 9.8 isn't on the top of the book either, just the 9.8. I want the NM/MT there. This sturm und drang is getting old.

[joe_collector]

Expecting them to change corporate policy based on a message board thread is insane.

 

Ummm, where I have I stated that I expect them to change corporate policy based on my views? I could care less what they do, as I simply act in my own manner based on changes in target market and let the chips fall where they may.

 

I plan on buying the older Blue Label comics if I have the choice, and I don't expect this to change anything other than my EBay surfing habits. It's just something I have to do, as I try and put my money where my mouth is, even if it's just a token statement.

 

My intent on starting this thread was to voice my opinion, encourage discussion, and see exactly where everyone else stood, nothing more.

[musicmeta]

And I'll tell you what... You put something together, and I will sign it. Even though I personally disagree with your position, if you take the time to do this the right way, I will lend my voice to the cause.

 

Sign me up if the campaign is to get that alpha grade back on the label.