Shared experiences with buying collections question

[tabcom]

I'm currently in early negoiations with an owner of a collection that has many key issues locked in the vault at the bank. Superboy 1, TofS 39, xmen 1, Key FF and ASM to name a few. He is probably close to 60 years old. Says he has stopped collecting about 15 years ago. I've met him in person at an estate auction that I bought some comics at. I gave him my card. He called me about a week later. Since then, we talk about every other week just to say hello. He has asked me to call back in July.

 

My question is, when the time comes when he says, 'come over and take a look at what I have and let me know what you will pay for them', does anyone have any advice as to negoiating a price that is fair for both of us?

 

I recall reading a thread about buying collections a couple years ago. Can anyone redirect me to it?

[Mac Man]

I would try to split this into two meetings- the first to catalog and grade his books, and the second to negotiate prices. I wouldn't worry about determining the values of comics during the grading process during the first meeting either.

 

Once you've got the list of issues and grades, go about figuring out how much you want to pay for each issue via FMV, OSPG, or whatever method you use. From there, come up with your total best offer. I'd also plan on being able to explain your rationale for prices specifcially with the key issues. If you're a dealer, then the markdown is pretty obvious-- you need to be able to turn these for a profit. As a collector, however, it seems a little more difficult to explain why buying them for pennies on the dollar is fair. Everyone I've seen usually pays a fair price on the keys, but really make their money on paying minimal for nonkey issues.

 

In any event, hope this works out for you and there are some really good deals in there for you!

[ninanina]

What's fair?

 

Hmmm.....if he has a scanner, a computer and wants to learn how to sell comics on e-bay after spending a couple years on this forum to learn all there is to learn about comics and how to sell them, educating himself on the importance of grade, how the hobby has changed (specifically in the last 15 years - 'cause it ain't like it used to be), scan and down-load an image of what he's selling onto an e-bay sell-site, or learn about Comic-Link and what comics they specialize in, decide whether or not he should have them CGC'd or not..along with about a dozen different things about the hobby he probably doesn't know about.....let him know that would be the best way for him to sell his collection for the most money.

 

If he doesn't want to do that and you come along and say "I'll take 'em"...how does 30% - 40% guide sound depending on condition? Certainly saves him a lot of work, don't it.

[Real Elijah Snow]

What's fair?

 

Hmmm.....if he has a scanner, a computer and wants to learn how to sell comics on e-bay after spending a couple years on this forum to learn all there is to learn about comics and how to sell them, educating himself on the importance of grade, how the hobby has changed (specifically in the last 15 years - 'cause it ain't like it used to be), scan and down-load an image of what he's selling onto an e-bay sell-site, or learn about Comic-Link and what comics they specialize in, decide whether or not he should have them CGC'd or not..along with about a dozen different things about the hobby he probably doesn't know about.....let him know that would be the best way for him to sell his collection for the most money.

 

If he doesn't want to do that and you come along and say "I'll take 'em"...how does 30% - 40% guide sound depending on condition? Certainly saves him a lot of work, don't it.

40% of guide might be a bit much if you are buying to re-sell them. There are so many silver/bronze age books that you cannot sell for 40% of guide that the ones you can get closer to guide on will be killed by the 40% you pay for the ones that will take down the average. That's not to mention that you should not pay more than 20 cents a book (at the most) if you are buying a huge amount of moderns. If he stopped 15 years ago there should be plenty of junk in there. If you are spending several thousand dollars on this you should not go above 20% if you factor in everything. If you end up putting in the work and averaging out at 50% of guide you have done pretty darn good. This pretty much depends on how many books are key or easy to sell at close to guide. For every Hulk #181 you can get $500 for it helps to even out the junk that you will have to sell at a dollar. (or whole-sale yourself for $30-$50 a long box)

[BlowUpTheMoon]

I'm currently in early negoiations with an owner of a collection that has many key issues locked in the vault at the bank. Superboy 1, TofS 39, xmen 1, Key FF and ASM to name a few. He is probably close to 60 years old. Says he has stopped collecting about 15 years ago.

 

How many comics can you fit in a bank vault?

[ninanina]

What's fair?

 

Hmmm.....if he has a scanner, a computer and wants to learn how to sell comics on e-bay after spending a couple years on this forum to learn all there is to learn about comics and how to sell them, educating himself on the importance of grade, how the hobby has changed (specifically in the last 15 years - 'cause it ain't like it used to be), scan and down-load an image of what he's selling onto an e-bay sell-site, or learn about Comic-Link and what comics they specialize in, decide whether or not he should have them CGC'd or not..along with about a dozen different things about the hobby he probably doesn't know about.....let him know that would be the best way for him to sell his collection for the most money.

 

If he doesn't want to do that and you come along and say "I'll take 'em"...how does 30% - 40% guide sound depending on condition? Certainly saves him a lot of work, don't it.

40% of guide might be a bit much if you are buying to re-sell them. There are so many silver/bronze age books that you cannot sell for 40% of guide that the ones you can get closer to guide on will be killed by the 40% you pay for the ones that will take down the average. That's not to mention that you should not pay more than 20 cents a book (at the most) if you are buying a huge amount of moderns. If he stopped 15 years ago there should be plenty of junk in there. If you are spending several thousand dollars on this you should not go above 20% if you factor in everything. If you end up putting in the work and averaging out at 50% of guide you have done pretty darn good. This pretty much depends on how many books are key or easy to sell at close to guide. For every Hulk #181 you can get $500 for it helps to even out the junk that you will have to sell at a dollar. (or whole-sale yourself for $30-$50 a long box)

 

What's fair is actually a loaded question and certainly what he plans to do with the books factors in. I just assumed in my answer he'd be keeping them. I personally purchased 1000's of modern (circa 1994 - 2001) for a buck a copy and paid that much because I was keeping them to read and figured it's a lot cheaper for me to do that than buy modern stuff at the prices they're selling new. And I agree, at a buck a piece to re-sell...to much $. So, certainly what he plans to do with them is a huge consideration as to what a fair price would be for the collection.

[Moondog]

Tab:

 

Here's a copy of a post I made from 2 years ago. Hopefully this will help you.

 

--Gary

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Here's the approach I take when buying an accumulation such as you described. I have probably purchased well over 200 such collections in the past 30 years.

 

1. Pull out all the keys and semi-keys. Tell the seller that these are the meat and potato books that the collectors want and that they are basically the entire deal.

 

2. List each key and semi-key on a sheet of paper and then grade each book. Make sure that you count the pages of each one in front of him. This is important because you're showing the seller that you're very thorough and that you're leaving absolutely nothing to chance. Explain this to him during the grading process. "A clipped coupon can be the difference between a $500 book and a $50 book, etc..." It's important to not rush this process because the seller will take note of how much work has to be done if he decides he wants to proceed on his own.

 

3. After the grading process take your Overstreet and price each book. It's important that you not overgrade. I know that sounds silly, but what I mean is that you must always grade on the side of caution. F/VF or a solid VF? Always take the lower grade/price. You can really get hurt if you make a mistake at this point. 95% of the books I grade when I'm buying collections are VG to VF.

 

4. Count up all the rest of the books. You'll be giving the seller a "bulk price" for these. Avengers 7-47. TOS 68-99. Etc. Even common G/VG golden age books like Fawcett's and Quality's will come under this bulk price. For example: if there are 800 bulk comics left, I would say, "I''m interested in this small pile of key issues. The rest of these comics are good books but it will take forever to sell them. I'm prepared to pay you $xxxx for this small pile and I'll add another $1,000 for the rest." I have never lost a deal using this approach. Of course there will be plenty of $10 to $30 books (and even higher) in the bulk batch (which you just paid $1.25 for...).. Good for you when you sell them because you bought them right.

 

5. Now the tricky part is coming up with the price for the keys. Here's where you can be aggressive. Since you've graded them as tightly as possible you can offer the seller 60% of Overstreet. "I really want these books. I'm prepared to offer $8,000. This figure represents over half the value, but I think I can turn them quickly enough to still make a nice profit." Or: I really want these books. These are the ones I'm keeping for myself so paying over half the value is a good deal for me."

 

6. Make sure you look like you know what you're doing. The grading guide is useless so don't bring it. Overstreet and a yellow pad is all you need. The key is not to rush the process. During the past two years I bought 4 collections for over $60,000. In each case I took over 6 hours to grade and price books as well as going through everything so as not to look like I was hiding anything good in the bulk stuff. And in each case they accepted my offer with no counter offer. You must be honest and forthright with the seller to earn their trust. When you find an exquisite item, make a big deal about it. In one instance I told the seller how pleased I was that her Spider-Man 1 was a VF beauty and that I was pleased to offer her $6,000 for it (later sold for $13,000). I told her how hard it was to find a copy that nice. She told me she was happy that I was so happy!

 

7. Sound like you know what you're talking about. Sellers want assurances that they are dealing with an expert. If you have any credentials show them off (I'm a long-time Overstreet advisor). If you've been to San Diego or Chicago, mention how you gather with fellow dealers/collectors at these huge shows.

 

8. Stress that you are going to offer the absolute best price you can. And then be prepared for their counter offer. I always try to offer something that can be rounded up by just a small amount. For instance, if you were prepared to offer $10,000...instead offer $9,200 (in almost every case the seller will say, "Make it $10,000 and we have a deal.") or $4,600 if you were prepared to offer $5,000...

 

9. Be prepared to walk away if you can't get a price you're absolutely comfortable with. Comics just aren't liquid enough to overpay on. They will sit and sit and sit unless you're prepared to sell at substantial discounts on eBay or at shows.

 

10. As soon as the seller accepts your deal, write the check or pay him as quickly as possible, box everything up and get out as soon as you can. You don't want him changing his mind...and never leave the list behind whether he sells them or not. That list will help you remember what you paid when it's time to price.

 

Good luck. Buying collections is both and art and a science. It's also a heckuva rush when you get everything in your car and you're driving home knowing that you've just bought some great stuff and you can't wait to get started selling it!

 

--Gary

[Moondog]

Also, I've bought a lot of comics in Indiana over the years. If you have a problem and need some assistance, just let me know!

 

--Gary

[october]

I always try to offer something that can be rounded up by just a small amount. For instance, if you were prepared to offer $10,000...instead offer $9,200 (in almost every case the seller will say, "Make it $10,000 and we have a deal.") or $4,600 if you were prepared to offer $5,000...

 

Very clever.

[sckao]

 

That's a great approach to buying comics... I especially like the part where you take your time (since it DOES take any inordinate amount of time) to psychologically emphasize that they DON'T want to do it themselves.

 

As a seller, if someone came over and appraised my collection in 30 minutes, I'd probably be wary... if someone spent 8 hours, I'd probably think they somehow "earned" more credibility for their thoroughness. (The process being more important than the result... similar to a house inspector who inspects your home during a sale.)

[Point Five]

I always try to offer something that can be rounded up by just a small amount. For instance, if you were prepared to offer $10,000...instead offer $9,200 (in almost every case the seller will say, "Make it $10,000 and we have a deal.") or $4,600 if you were prepared to offer $5,000...

 

Very clever.

 

Hey Andy, want to do $47.50 on that SSWS #145?

[tabcom]

Tab:

 

Here's a copy of a post I made from 2 years ago. Hopefully this will help you.

 

--Gary

 

Gary: THANK YOU! Your post from 2 years ago was exactly what I was looking for. I remember reading it at the time. But when it came to trying to do a word search for it this week, I could not recall what to use as a key word.

 

Dancing banana goes out to ya.

[tabcom]

. It's also a heckuva rush when you get everything in your car and you're driving home knowing that you've just bought some great stuff

I still feel the residue from this purchase deep-down in the cornfields of Indiana . . .

 

[tabcom]

OK....thanks for the excellent replies.

 

Changing the subject just a little . . . . can anyone share their experiences with finding great collections. For me, I like to go to estate auctions. If there are not more than 2 or 3 other buyers who I know are buying only to relist on eBay, I will bid on the items being auctioned. My intent is twofold, find some key books at a decent price, and, more importantly, to talk to people at the auction that are not bidding on anything. I find those that are lurking are owners of comic books and are just there to see how much comics sell for. Talking to them, I find out if they are interested in selling, or if they know anyone else that may have a collection and may be interested in selling.

 

Other sources that I've heard about, but have not tried, is to advertise with flyers at libraries. Libraries are places that retirees go to alot. They may have comic book collections that havent even been thought about for twenty years sitting somewhere.

 

Any other ideas??

 

btw, I like to collect comics as a hobby. I like to buy collections, sell the bulk to pay for the keys. I've recently purchased a silver age collection that I intend to sell and have the proceeds pay for the FF#48 that I'm currently having CGC'd (hoping it returns at 8.0/8.5).

[RaccoonRaccoon]

. It's also a heckuva rush when you get everything in your car and you're driving home knowing that you've just bought some great stuff

I still feel the residue from this purchase deep-down in the cornfields of Indiana . . .

 

 

 

 

Do share the story of this book.

 

(if you have already please point me to the link)

[ft88]

I bought a nice Dell collection that had been picked over in the late 70's. So WDCS 1-100, Barks Ducks and significant keys were missing. But it was about 3000 Dell ten centers and there were some very nice Walt Kelly books, among others. Also a Funnies 64 (which I show off every chance I get) came back a CGC 6.0 which is the highest graded copy. Also a bound Funnies 66-77 (that seemed random) and literally over 500 hundred Sundays from the 30's with Buck Rogers, Mickey Mouse and Flash Gordon.

 

He knew generically they had value as well as using Overstreet but he didn't have a current one. He threw names around of the old time collectors and told me he got about $10,000 for the Disney/Barks books even back in the 70's. I didn't bring a guide but I generally knew their value both via guide and online sales. We negotiated in the $3000 range and I drove away happy as pie with a car full of books. I sold off the low grade Dells and Sundays over about a year on ebay and some of the nicer Kelly's here on the boards. The bonus was the Funnies 64 which I would be seriously interested in regardless.

 

So thats an approach you can use though it can feel risky. Do everything that Moondog says but don't pick out the keys and semi keys. Just mentally add them up in your head (I have a knack for numbers so I can get away with that) for the lowest value you think they will sell for. After that, divide by two and make an offer a little less than that with an easy willingness to come up in value to that 50% mark. As has already been mentioned, the "commons" often pay for the purchase and you get stuck with the keys for free - not a bad gig.

 

It always seems to me that picking out the keys emphasizes them too much, plus you wind up doing the hard work for a future not-you buyer by going through every book and dong the seperating. If he wants to just "get rid of them" there's no fault in going through them quickly and offering a reasonable price that is a clear low ball offer. But if he starts saying things like "Well the price guide says this TOS 39 is a $10,000 book (in NM)" its going to be a long day. You have to play that one by ear. 4 out of 5 will understand that condition is part of the game.

 

And always always be willing to walk.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, and bring cash or have it available. If you can do it during the day close to your bank, perfect. Or call your bank up and tell them to up your cash limit on your card. That way you can pulse out $5000 if need be. You'd be surprised how often delaying a sweet purchase gets hijacked if you have to wait even a day.

[october]

I always try to offer something that can be rounded up by just a small amount. For instance, if you were prepared to offer $10,000...instead offer $9,200 (in almost every case the seller will say, "Make it $10,000 and we have a deal.") or $4,600 if you were prepared to offer $5,000...

 

Very clever.

 

Hey Andy, want to do $47.50 on that SSWS #145?

 

 

Ask Kenny, I am sure he will jump at that price.

[Pirate]

is there a site or something that lists estate sales and their contents by state or something. I always hear about them but never where and when

[ft88]

Try the local classifieds or yellow pages. Thanks for the tip on Libraries, I'll try that one out.

[cd4ever]

Great great post Moondog.

Very educational.