three things I always wondered about Chuck's Church collection

[JayT]

2)He has described fitting them into some sort of frozen chicken boxes that were a perfect fit for transporting comics.

 

 

No wonder all Church comics smell like KFC !!

 

 

[chromium]

2)He has described fitting them into some sort of frozen chicken boxes that were a perfect fit for transporting comics.

 

 

No wonder all Church comics smell like KFC !!

 

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Because the books were regularly alternated, i.e. once in a while the books were turned 180 degree or stacked face down. That way all the spines are not on top of each other and it does not create spine roll.

 

I agree this helps, but only partially. Try stacking comics like this sometime, alternate them so that some are face up and some face down, some spines on left side, some on right side.

 

What you will find is that the sides of the pile get higher than the middle of the pile. Once the stack gets over a foot high, it becomes very noticeable.

 

So how did Church ever create stacks 7 feet tall without getting spine rolls on all the comics? It seems impossible unless he put a wooden board between the comics every 6 inches or so in these stacks.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

When I was young, and not wishing to spend any valuable comic money on useless supplies, I had my comics in the back of a wardrobe. No bags, no boards, no boxes...simply stacked about 4-5 foot high, without even alternating. Had second piles stacked in front of the first piles, too.

 

Years later, not a spine roll in sight on any of them.

[osborn_fr]

Terrestrial attraction is not the same in UK, that's a fact, and it explains a lot of thing...

 

[MK Ultra]

Because the books were regularly alternated, i.e. once in a while the books were turned 180 degree or stacked face down. That way all the spines are not on top of each other and it does not create spine roll.

 

I agree this helps, but only partially. Try stacking comics like this sometime, alternate them so that some are face up and some face down, some spines on left side, some on right side.

 

What you will find is that the sides of the pile get higher than the middle of the pile. Once the stack gets over a foot high, it becomes very noticeable.

 

So how did Church ever create stacks 7 feet tall without getting spine rolls on all the comics? It seems impossible unless he put a wooden board between the comics every 6 inches or so in these stacks.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Are you stacking moderns? Were GA produced differently? That might explain it, but I don't know.

[Monstro]

just look at the stacks in the picture above. sure there are only 3' tall, but

they look flat to me.

[Monstro]

also i'm sure during transport some of the books we're damaged. but with that many book......

[Pirate]

Because the books were regularly alternated, i.e. once in a while the books were turned 180 degree or stacked face down. That way all the spines are not on top of each other and it does not create spine roll.

 

I agree this helps, but only partially. Try stacking comics like this sometime, alternate them so that some are face up and some face down, some spines on left side, some on right side.

 

What you will find is that the sides of the pile get higher than the middle of the pile. Once the stack gets over a foot high, it becomes very noticeable.

 

So how did Church ever create stacks 7 feet tall without getting spine rolls on all the comics? It seems impossible unless he put a wooden board between the comics every 6 inches or so in these stacks.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

When I was young, and not wishing to spend any valuable comic money on useless supplies, I had my comics in the back of a wardrobe. No bags, no boards, no boxes...simply stacked about 4-5 foot high, without even alternating. Had second piles stacked in front of the first piles, too.

 

Years later, not a spine roll in sight on any of them.

 

wardrobe's are for girls, yuck

[MrBedrock]

Are you saying that Chuck himself has told you that he paid ten cents a book? It's a simple yes or no answer. If the answer is yes,thats fantastic as you are solving one of comicdoms greatest mysterys.

 

Chuck himself told me that the $2000 Burrel loaned him is the amount he paid for the collection. If there were 18,000 books then that is more than a dime each. If there were 22,000 then less. But he has always maintained that there were 20,000 books. That would be a dime each!

He has never said to me, "I only paid a dime a book."

He has said, "I paid $2000 for the comic collection."

[Bruce1971]

I thought I read a long time ago there were more comics and pulps in the collection but he could not raise enough money to buy everything.

[ft88]

 

2. I don't see how any of them stayed in 9.6 and 9.8 shape under such moving conditions. How was this possible?

 

3. Chuck says he bought 18,000 Church comics for $1800 (10 cents each). Does anyone know what the value of the same 18,000 comics would be today if you could gather them all together again, CGC them, and auction them off? If you could average $5000 each the collection would be worth $90 million. At an average $10,000 each it's worth $180 million. Anyone have any idea what the value would be? (guess Chuck should have kept them all)

 

I think most Church's aren't in 9.6 to 9.8 its just that enough of them are that it seems like the whold dang collection was 9.6 or better. Plus enough are 9.0 or better that again it just seems like its out of this world. Lets also throw in the assumption that having the entire Church collection on the market wouldn't affect prices. I'd guess that the ubber keys many of which have restoration and slight glue or dot of ink that reduced price. Lets guess big on these top 30 books and say 5 Million. Next is Lets say another 3000 books of key superhero titles in ubber high grade and say $$5000 apiece that equals 15 million. I'd give the rest of the books an average of $2000 for 15-17000 books. Call it $30 large. In total I'd have say $50 Million. Many of the books were westerns or other current out of favor titles like the Facwets where only the 9.8's could possible hope to get $5k apiece and more likely the 9.0-9.4's are going to get around $1k or so. The full runds of Feature Comics, Popular, and the like are impressive but won't hit major bucks even in high grade.

[tth2]

Burrel told me he loaned Chuck $2K. Chuck told me Burrel loaned him $2K.

Chuck told me he paid $2K for the collection.

So I am pretty sure that is what happened.

Good stuff, Richard! It`s awesome to finally have someone definitively confirm these figures!

[tth2]

Because the books were regularly alternated, i.e. once in a while the books were turned 180 degree or stacked face down. That way all the spines are not on top of each other and it does not create spine roll.

 

I agree this helps, but only partially. Try stacking comics like this sometime, alternate them so that some are face up and some face down, some spines on left side, some on right side.

 

What you will find is that the sides of the pile get higher than the middle of the pile. Once the stack gets over a foot high, it becomes very noticeable.

 

So how did Church ever create stacks 7 feet tall without getting spine rolls on all the comics? It seems impossible unless he put a wooden board between the comics every 6 inches or so in these stacks.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

When I was young, and not wishing to spend any valuable comic money on useless supplies, I had my comics in the back of a wardrobe. No bags, no boards, no boxes...simply stacked about 4-5 foot high, without even alternating. Had second piles stacked in front of the first piles, too.

 

Years later, not a spine roll in sight on any of them.

Interesting. I have a different question about the effect of stacking. What about non-color breaking indentations in books caused by inexact alignment of the books on top, which start pressing in under the weight of the books on top? It`s hard to get books to line up perfectly in a stack, and even if they line up perfectly, books vary in size so sometimes you`ll have a shorter book on top of a longer book, which causes the top edge of the shorter book to leave an indentation on the book below it and also an indentation on the back cover of the book above it.

 

I`ve noticed this when I stacked books up for a period of time, and they weren`t even close to 7 feet high or stacked that way for 30 years. Maybe I`m just overly anal about non-color breaking creases, but I would downgrade otherwise NM books because they had some faint indentation from the books above. Anyone else ever notice this? I raised this question about the Church books once but was told by at least one knowledgeable collector that he had never noticed such indentations on any of the Church books that he`d seen.

[adamstrange]

Because the books were regularly alternated, i.e. once in a while the books were turned 180 degree or stacked face down. That way all the spines are not on top of each other and it does not create spine roll.

 

I agree this helps, but only partially. Try stacking comics like this sometime, alternate them so that some are face up and some face down, some spines on left side, some on right side.

 

What you will find is that the sides of the pile get higher than the middle of the pile. Once the stack gets over a foot high, it becomes very noticeable.

 

So how did Church ever create stacks 7 feet tall without getting spine rolls on all the comics? It seems impossible unless he put a wooden board between the comics every 6 inches or so in these stacks.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

When I was young, and not wishing to spend any valuable comic money on useless supplies, I had my comics in the back of a wardrobe. No bags, no boards, no boxes...simply stacked about 4-5 foot high, without even alternating. Had second piles stacked in front of the first piles, too.

 

Years later, not a spine roll in sight on any of them.

Interesting. I have a different question about the effect of stacking. What about non-color breaking indentations in books caused by inexact alignment of the books on top, which start pressing in under the weight of the books on top? It`s hard to get books to line up perfectly in a stack, and even if they line up perfectly, books vary in size so sometimes you`ll have a shorter book on top of a longer book, which causes the top edge of the shorter book to leave an indentation on the book below it and also an indentation on the back cover of the book above it.

 

I`ve noticed this when I stacked books up for a period of time, and they weren`t even close to 7 feet high or stacked that way for 30 years. Maybe I`m just overly anal about non-color breaking creases, but I would downgrade otherwise NM books because they had some faint indentation from the books above. Anyone else ever notice this? I raised this question about the Church books once but was told by at least one knowledgeable collector that he had never noticed such indentations on any of the Church books that he`d seen.

 

Technically you're really discussing bends or warping as there wouldn't be any breaking of the fibers. The Church copies were not stacked in perfect alignment (and given the different published size of the books perfect alignment isn't possible across the whole collection). There is often a small dust shadow / sun fade where you can intuit there was a stacking misalignment but I have not seen any warping / bending on Church copies that coincides with them.

[ArAich]

Burrel told me he loaned Chuck $2K. Chuck told me Burrel loaned him $2K.

Chuck told me he paid $2K for the collection.

So I am pretty sure that is what happened.

Good stuff, Richard! It`s awesome to finally have someone definitively confirm these figures!

 

Is this comic book history in the making???...

[tth2]

Technically you're really discussing bends or warping as there wouldn't be any breaking of the fibers.

Is it? The fibers may not be broken, but they may have been permanently altered, and won`t come out unless (dare I say it?) they get pressed out.

 

The Church copies were not stacked in perfect alignment (and given the different published size of the books perfect alignment isn't possible across the whole collection). There is often a small dust shadow / sun fade where you can intuit there was a stacking misalignment but I have not seen any warping / bending on Church copies that coincides with them.

Exactly. The absence of such warping/bending as you call it is puzzling. Go create a 2 foot stack, let alone 7 foot, and misalign the books and let them sit that way for a year. I guarantee that on the bottom books, at least, there`ll be "warping/bending" along the edges of the misaligned book on top. Sure the cover stock of GA books was a lot heavier duty than the flimsy stuff used in the 70s-90s, but 7 feet of books pressing down for 30 years should overcome the heavier stock.

[adamstrange]

Technically you're really discussing bends or warping as there wouldn't be any breaking of the fibers.

Is it? The fibers may not be broken, but they may have been permanently altered, and won`t come out unless (dare I say it?) they get pressed out.

 

Correct on both counts.

 

The Church copies were not stacked in perfect alignment (and given the different published size of the books perfect alignment isn't possible across the whole collection). There is often a small dust shadow / sun fade where you can intuit there was a stacking misalignment but I have not seen any warping / bending on Church copies that coincides with them.

Exactly. The absence of such warping/bending as you call it is puzzling. Go create a 2 foot stack, let alone 7 foot, and misalign the books and let them sit that way for a year. I guarantee that on the bottom books, at least, there`ll be "warping/bending" along the edges of the misaligned book on top. Sure the cover stock of GA books was a lot heavier duty than the flimsy stuff used in the 70s-90s, but 7 feet of books pressing down for 30 years should overcome the heavier stock.

 

I understand physics so I don't disagree with your reasoning, but I haven't seen evidence of the warping and I've looked at hundreds and hundreds of Church copies. Unless someone did mass pressing (doubtful) the copies came out of the basement looking like they were just off the press. I did go through the McLaughlin Church copies last fall and they don't exhibit the warping and these were purchased pretty much from Chuck and fairly early in the life cycle.

[tth2]

The Church copies were not stacked in perfect alignment (and given the different published size of the books perfect alignment isn't possible across the whole collection). There is often a small dust shadow / sun fade where you can intuit there was a stacking misalignment but I have not seen any warping / bending on Church copies that coincides with them.

Exactly. The absence of such warping/bending as you call it is puzzling. Go create a 2 foot stack, let alone 7 foot, and misalign the books and let them sit that way for a year. I guarantee that on the bottom books, at least, there`ll be "warping/bending" along the edges of the misaligned book on top. Sure the cover stock of GA books was a lot heavier duty than the flimsy stuff used in the 70s-90s, but 7 feet of books pressing down for 30 years should overcome the heavier stock.

 

I understand physics so I don't disagree with your reasoning, but I haven't seen evidence of the warping and I've looked at hundreds and hundreds of Church copies. Unless someone did mass pressing (doubtful) the copies came out of the basement looking like they were just off the press. I did go through the McLaughlin Church copies last fall and they don't exhibit the warping and these were purchased pretty much from Chuck and fairly early in the life cycle.

So, in addition to having a time machine, Edgar Church also had a anti-gravity device.

[Norrin_Radd]

Stantz: Symmetrical comic stacking. Just like the Philadelphia mass turbulence of 1947.

Venkman: You’re right, no human being would stack comics like this.

[TheWatcher]

Stantz: Symmetrical comic stacking. Just like the Philadelphia mass turbulence of 1947.

Venkman: You’re right, no human being would stack comics like this.