My First Official Post - A RANT! Time to Change eBay Tactics

[tentpeg06]

 

Fellow Posters,

Well, I got up this morning, thinking everything was hunky dory. I go to check my Yahoo e-mail account. I discovered that eBay had sent me a message overnight that a listing that I was bidding on had been cancelled by a rather new seller with no feedback. Whether this seller is new or just creating a new account I do not know. However, this listing was for a vintage Byrne page. If I disclose this particular auction, then many will recognize the scenario for what I write in the next paragraph.

 

I have a very good idea what happened. Someone else is trying to collect all the pages from several different books in order to put these issues back together. This someone else who collects pages from this particular issue probably sent this 'new' seller an offer to close the listing early. I have refrained from this practice because I do not think that it is ethical. I have gone as far on other auctions as to request that sellers do not close listings early. However, I did not write this message for this particular auction.

 

Rather than kick myself in the butt, I am throwing what ethics I had out the window. From now on, when I see art posted that I want on eBay, I will offer that seller a price that I think that will cause him/her to close their auction early. This has now happened to me once too often. Last night's auction was the breaking point. I am done with lamenting on this type of activity. Action (and greenbacks) speaks louder than typed words.

 

While this may have been a topic of discussion before on these boards, I am relatively new to this forum as you can see. Thanks for reading.

Ciao!

PRC

 

[Drummy]

PRC --

 

I know of your heartbreak. I detest when I see such things happening, and occasionally I write to sellers asking them not to end their auctions early because I plan to bid high at the end. I sometimes quote an actual figure, perhaps secretly hoping they'll email back to discuss an outright sale, but I never suggest that as an option. If they want to end an auction early, I figure I'll hear from them, but what I really hope is that my message will spur them on to keeping the auction open (out of greed).

 

That said, I never end auctions early and do not overtly email folks to do so. I understand your frustration completely, but when I think about some of the collectors and dealers who are known to make such offers (sometimes after a completed BIN or sale!), I want to make sure I'm never lumped in with that particular group of myopic, sometimes immoral folks.

 

I'm not in a position to judge all behind-the-scenes buyers and end-the-auction-early sellers, so I won't. But a proactive email (as you've done before) can do a lot of good, too....maybe just sleep on it before launching the 'if I can't beat 'em, I'll join 'em' campaign? Do you feel like your integrity would be compromised if you did? Is it worth it in the long run? Dunno.

 

As I've said before, your collection rocks. Hope this page surfaces again.

 

Dan

[Thomas]

Maybe I'm being naive but what's the benefit of a seller ending an auction early? If I'm selling something and buyer A says I'll give you this much to end the auction early then isn't it in my best interest to tell them to just bid that amount then so I don't accidentally alienate other potential bidders that I'm unaware of that might push the price even higher? I understand the risk of not having a 2nd bidder drive up the price but if one person wants it bad enough for me to end the auction then you've got to logically believe there's a 2nd person or more, right?

[malvin]

Whats that expression, a bird in hand in better than 2 in the bush or whatever? Its all about certainty, the second person might not exist

[Jesusjon]

I too feel your pain. I have now made it standard operating proceedure to send a message of interest, BUT NOT AN OFFER, to an Ebay seller who has offerred a piece I plan to bid on. It usually goes something like:

 

 

Hello There, Thanks for listing this item. I have serious interest in it and plan on being the high bidder at the end of the auction. I realize that you may receive offers to end the item early. If you do decide to take this course of action, I would ask that you please drop me a line to let me know, and give me a chance to make a counter offer higher than you've received. Best of luck with the auction, J

 

 

At least this gives me a chance if they do decide to end the item early. It also allows me to keep at least a few principles (and demonstrate that to the seller, who is sometimes a principled individual as well) in that I am content to let the item run it's course.

 

To sum up -- you don't have to go completely over to the dark side and be one of the *spoons* who immediately send offers to a seller (as you say, sometimes after an auction ends!!). You can protect yourself but still try to do the right thing.

 

Best,

 

J

[Jesusjon]

Maybe I'm being naive but what's the benefit of a seller ending an auction early?

 

No Ebay final value fees also.

[Artemaria]

I too feel your pain. I have now made it standard operating proceedure to send a message of interest, BUT NOT AN OFFER, to an Ebay seller who has offerred a piece I plan to bid on. It usually goes something like:

 

 

Hello There, Thanks for listing this item. I have serious interest in it and plan on being the high bidder at the end of the auction. I realize that you may receive offers to end the item early. If you do decide to take this course of action, I would ask that you please drop me a line to let me know, and give me a chance to make a counter offer higher than you've received. Best of luck with the auction, J

 

 

At least this gives me a chance if they do decide to end the item early. It also allows me to keep at least a few principles (and demonstrate that to the seller, who is sometimes a principled individual as well) in that I am content to let the item run it's course.

 

To sum up -- you don't have to go completely over to the dark side and be one of the *spoons* who immediately send offers to a seller (as you say, sometimes after an auction ends!!). You can protect yourself but still try to do the right thing.

 

Best,

 

J

 

PRC -

 

I completely sympathize with your rant. But I hope you don't go through with your intentions at this point.

 

While no one can tell you what to do, I think Jon's come up with a nice solution to a fairly common problem. Maybe you would want to add a couple of lines in there to the effect that

 

"And, there may be others who would be willing to bid much much higher than myself or others, but whose existence you will never know about if you end the auction early. While you might have a price in mind, I know many sellers who were very pleasantly surprised when they let their auction run its full course."

 

This, of course, would appeal to the greed of someone who is thinking of ending the auction early. As you know, it is also true. If you have a hot piece (or even a tepid piece these days), the auction results continue to surprise on the high side.

 

By the way, I'd love to see your CAF. Could you post a link or PM me?

 

Thanks.

 

- A

[Paratrooper]

use bidnip to snipe auctions you want, probably save you money in the long run

[malvin]

use bidnip to snipe auctions you want, probably save you money in the long run

 

you can't snipe an auction if it was already taken down.

 

In fact, snipers contribute to the problem, since the seller doesn't see any action on his auction and will be tempted by an offer to take it down.

 

Malvin

[NightGallery1]

I'm right there with you as far as feeling the pain brother. Jon's solution, along with Artemaria's suggestion, seem to be the best way of preventing this type of situation from occurring in the future. If it makes you feel any better, of the last four auctions I've bid on, two were ended early (I was the high bidder on both listings at the time of cancellation).

 

Makes bidding from Heritage and some of the other high profile auction sites seem like a pretty good deal. I've only seen one item pulled mid-auction from a Heritage event.

 

Artemaria - My apologies - I owe you a PM. I've been in and out of the hospital all week and I'm actually writing this post on the fly. Hope you had a great 4th!

 

Bill

[Mighty Hal]

Tentpeg06 (is that your real name?), I recently made an offer that ended an eBay auction early. I know, this is an un-good thing to do. Impolite and unfair. But I'm pleased with my purchase and I'd do it again.

 

It was a piece of original artwork -- although not comic OA; I enjoy almost all illustrative cover art. Paperback book covers, magazine covers, movie poster artwork...I've collected different bits and pieces along the way.

 

This was a gorgeous magazine cover. It had been on the block once before and failed to meet the seller's opening bid. The seller's starting price was $300 more than I could afford. I offered what I could afford and, to my surprise, the seller said 'yes'. I PayPal'ed the cash and he closed the auction.

 

My suggestion, Tentpeg old friend? If there's a piece you really love, offer less than the starting bid. Hey, it worked for me....

[tentpeg06]

Tentpeg06 (is that your real name?), I recently made an offer that ended an eBay auction early. I know, this is an un-good thing to do. Impolite and unfair. But I'm pleased with my purchase and I'd do it again.

 

It was a piece of original artwork -- although not comic OA; I enjoy almost all illustrative cover art. Paperback book covers, magazine covers, movie poster artwork...I've collected different bits and pieces along the way.

 

This was a gorgeous magazine cover. It had been on the block once before and failed to meet the seller's opening bid. The seller's starting price was $300 more than I could afford. I offered what I could afford and, to my surprise, the seller said 'yes'. I PayPal'ed the cash and he closed the auction.

 

My suggestion, Tentpeg old friend? If there's a piece you really love, offer less than the starting bid. Hey, it worked for me....

 

To Hal Turner,

As for your situation, I am not as caustic. If something has appeared on eBay already and has not sold, then go for it. Some people put out items with high opening bids to determine if the market is willing to pay a high price. When it is re-listed at a lower price, it has already gone through the mill. Others may disagree, but Artemaria has a similar thread ongoing about familiarity breeding devaluation. I would put your win in that category. You can never know with sellers what their motivations might be. If they need to raise money quick, then that can be a potential win/win for both seller and buyer.

 

However, new sellers are quite different. I will address this with a follow on post to update this situation. Thanks for your insight, and congrats on your pick-up.

Ciao!

PRC

[tentpeg06]

 

Fellow Posters,

OK, I have an update pour vous. I received a message back from the 'new' seller. He confirmed that he had received solicitations prior to closing his auction at favorable market prices. His explanation? He did not pull the auction for an off eBay offer surprisingly. He actually pulled it for two reasons that he indicated to me, and they are as follows:

 

1. One of his sons thought that he would hold the art for him as an inheritance(good reason based on the prices received off eBay),

 

2. He has become disenchanted with the community of Original Comic Art Collectors/Investors (another good reason because we do have a small portion of our community that will make unsolicited offers off eBay for purely advantageous and selfish reasons).

 

Based on his message to me, I now wonder how many new individuals that have become genuinely disgusted with our community for their high-powered antics. This could be a new topic in, and of, itself. I know of several individuals who have routinely made these unsolicited offers in order to take advantage of someone who is not familiar with current valuations. It is rather discouraging, but it is a part of our capitalistic, greedy nature as humans. As I wrote in my original message, I have done my best to stay away from this type of activity. Moreover, I think that I will take the good advice proffered from others with their verbiage. Anyone else's thoughts on this issue?

Ciao!

PRC

 

[Mighty Hal]

Tentpeg06, my fellow collector, I didn't mean to be caustic. Meant to be lightly humorous (you shouldn't really offer a seller less than asking price, even if it DID work for me) and, apparently, I failed. Sorry.

 

As far as the seller pulling his listing in your situation? If unsolicited offers to buy his item at a higher price than anticipated has driven him from eBay...well, he's an awfully sensitive soul. When I've posted an item and had a request to end something early, the bidders have always been pleasant; they want something from me and being an ****hole isn't going to achieve that end.

 

If your seller had put "I don't end auctions early" at the end of his listing, he might have avoided whatever grief he did receive.

[tentpeg06]

Hal,

Maybe caustic was not the right word to use. As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I think that the practice of working a deal the second (or third, fourth, etc.) time around on eBay is perfectly acceptable. Once a page is out there in the public forum like eBay, people are aware of its existence. The practice of placing high opening bids can be a curse or can be a great return on investment. As an example, consider that Buscema Silver Surfer 12, page 4 on eBay that Dan Forman sold to that seller a while back. The marketplace would not support that opening bid price. However, someone could have worked out a deal with the seller, post eBay.

 

As for my reply from the seller, the seller did not come across as an *spoon*. Being relatively new, he may not have thought to put an additional clause in there about not taking auctions down early. Such is life.

Ciao!

PRC

[jjonahjameson1]

I've felt frustration about this as a buyer and seller from time to time. Whenever I was selling and someone made me a 'crazy' money offer to end the auction early, I always declined and cited that it would be unfair to the other folks interested in the auction.

 

Often, I'd have sixty to 80 auction watchers, but the auction final price was ALWAYS significantly less than the offer to end the auction early. As a result, I WILL now end auctions early for 'crazy' money offers as I've lost out on thousands of dollars previously.

[Artemaria]

I've felt frustration about this as a buyer and seller from time to time. Whenever I was selling and someone made me a 'crazy' money offer to end the auction early, I always declined and cited that it would be unfair to the other folks interested in the auction.

 

Often, I'd have sixty to 80 auction watchers, but the auction final price was ALWAYS significantly less than the offer to end the auction early. As a result, I WILL now end auctions early for 'crazy' money offers as I've lost out on thousands of dollars previously.

 

 

It's sad to hear about anyone not making thousands of dollars on merchandise that they could have made that money on. But, maybe I'm missing something, but the behavior of these bidders doesn't makes sense to me.

 

Why didn't those people just bid at the end to win the auction?

 

If they were willing to pay it at the beginning of the auction, there's no real logical reason why they can't just put in a bid later and get the piece for the amounts they were thinking of paying initially.

 

Best regards.

 

-A