Qualified or Crapified?

[Darthdiesel]

I've learned to accept JC's point of view for what it is. His point of view. I may cringe from time to time, but the man stands by what he believes, all under scrutiny from the majority of this board. It all makes for great discussion and am glad he is posting at all, despite some of the harsh name-calling. I have no hope in hell of changing his mind on certain things but I don't view this forum as a vehicle for assimilating everyone into my "Buy Modern and CGC books" agenda or any other agenda for that matter.

 

If you want his take on comics, it's here on the boards for everyone to review. You want his take on life...PM him. You may get more by way of an answer than here on the boards.

[garthgantu]

Every time I've looked at a QUALIFIED graded book, I look at it like its a lesser book trying to be passed off as a better book. Not once have I seen a QUALIFIED book that deserves the grade given. I say call it like it is. Don't mask the actual condition with some "WHAT IF" grade. And that in effect is what a QUALIFIED grade is. A "WHAT IF". What if the book wasn't missing 10 pages? 6.0 then? Your guess is as good as mine. But if CGC says the remaining pages are in 6.0 condition, then they probably are. But no way is the book a 6.0 as is. Qualified or not. This has to be a big mistake on CGC's part. They should really re-think the QUALIFIED grading. I don't think QUALFIED grading is helping anyone.

 

Totally agree! Based on the logic represented by this AF 15, EVERY comic book on the face of the earth is a Mint 10.0 ... IF you "qualify" it enough!!

[PedigreeMan]

I've learned to accept JC's point of view for what it is. His point of view. I may cringe from time to time, but the man stands by what he believes, all under scrutiny from the majority of this board.

 

That’s all fine and wonderful, and I in no way was attempting to change JC’s opinion on anything. What I wanted was to get at the deeper aspects behind those opinions. Needless to say, I’m still waiting.

 

A person can stand by their views all they want, but when those beliefs are seemingly based on weak (or, in Joe’s case, non-existent) foundations, they have to be expected to clarify them and strengthen up said foundation. This is especially true when those viewpoints deviate so far from the norm, as evidenced by all of JC’s posts, not just the ones in this thread. His “digital” or “black & white” or “all or nothing” stances on so many topics here always inevitably lead to scrutiny, but no one ever walks away really knowing what Joe is fully about. I thought I’d try and change that. Again, I’m still waiting.

 

I realize it’s difficult to point out the emperor isn’t wearing any clothes, but there ya go.

 

Alan

 

[fantastic_four]

Totally agree! Based on the logic represented by this AF 15, EVERY comic book on the face of the earth is a Mint 10.0 ... IF you "qualify" it enough!!

 

Not every book has one major defect that lowers grade by 10 or 15 notches more than all the other defects...the majority of comics are either high grade or have an accumulation of five or more defects that are within a few notches of each other.

 

That's how most of the Qualified grades are assigned--they're primarily a high grade except for one major defect that isn't totally obtrusive. It's quite easy to argue that not being able to read a comic in its entirety is a fairly obtrusive defect--I definitely agree with that--but I view reading a comic and displaying it as two separate functions. Some people only read...some only display...and some do both. I think most forum members here both read and display.

 

Most defects have almost no affect on reading unless they affect the panel art or make it difficult to turn the pages. The interior and exterior probably deserve separate grades...a comic can be a 1.5 and still be readable. Most people who just read comics don't even care what the grade is...a LOT of comic artists are like this, with a few notable exceptions, like McFarlane or the famous artist who owns a bunch of comics from a famous pedigree. I definitely think that the defects and defect severities you downgrade for on the interior should be different than those you downgrade for on the exterior--for most defects, drastically different. The Overstreet and CGC standards definitely jibe with that idea.

 

There isn't a great precedent in coin or card grading that accurately compares to comics because you can't open those items up and look at an interior, so looking at those hobbies for ideas on this doesn't help. I like the idea of a SINGLE grade, but I also see a reason to have separate ones so that one function of a comic doesn't interfere with the other. The best solution I've heard to date is to assign two grades--one to the interior and one to the exterior--and then do something to both of them to arrive at a final number. I don't know what kind of function to run both grades through yet, though...what weights to give each. I asked about this in an older thread and got a lot of different opinions from people about how to weight the interior against the exterior, but it's tough to pick a set of weights.

[joe_collector]

A person can stand by their views all they want, but when those beliefs are seemingly based on weak (or, in Joe’s case, non-existent) foundations...

 

 

Man, you guys are too much. I bet all of your opinions and beliefs are built from the very bedrock of the planet Earth, right?

 

[supapimp]

this thread needs to die, real fast, real quick.

[joe_collector]

That's how most of the Qualified grades are assigned--they're primarily a high grade except for one major defect that isn't totally obtrusive.

 

Okay, this AF 15 IS NOT high-grade, it DOES NOT have one single defect (more like 10), and calling a significant part of a book being ripped out even "slightly unobtrusive" is really pushing it.

 

I don't mind the Qualified grade as you spell it out, but this AF 15 simply doesn't fit any of the criteria.

[Bugaboo-migration]

I don't mind the Qualified grade as you spell it out, but this AF 15 simply doesn't fit any of the criteria.

It doesn't fit the criteria of a 1.8 (Good-) grade either.

[joe_collector]

It doesn't fit the criteria of a 1.8 Good- grade either.

 

Hey Bug, time to recycle the data in that one brain cell of yours. Tell yer mommy to whack you in the head a few more times.

 

[Bugaboo-migration]

Hey Bug, time to recycle the data in that one brain cell of yours. Tell yer mommy to whack you in the head a few more times.

Yeah, it's not like you've repeated any of your rhetoric over and over and over and over and over in this thread.

 

1.8 Good-, indeed.

 

What straight grade would you give it if the entire book was missing.......a 1.0?

[FlyingDonut]

Well, that was really a thrill. I miss a day and see what happens? Hammer gets booted off again, all this fun stuff happens and I find myself agreeing with Bug.

 

For what its worth, this is how I would list this book RAW, NOT CGC graded.

 

Unfortunate copy of Amazing Fantasy 15. 10 pages have been neatly cut out (the Mummy story I think), but the origin and first appearance of Spider-Man story is complete. Looks a fine, an attractive overall copy with some scuffing at top edge. Very little Marvel chipping, uncommon to this issue. Some slight scuffing on spine, slmall chip missing from back right corner, very small spider tears on spine. Presents nicely with nice eye appeal. Overstreet "Good" is $1263 - your chance to get a very nicely presented copy of a landmark issue at a lower price - a good buy for the Spider-Man completist.

 

and I find it interesting after 300 posts of sturm und drang that the book ended up selling for right about where a G+ 2.5 Overstreet price is.

[PedigreeMan]

I'm sick of trying to get blood from a stone (or an answer of substance from the naked emperor), so I'm bowing out of the discussion here. (Hey, who's that cheering? Shut up Supa! You too, Pov! Stop doing the Cabbage Patch, Greggy! )

 

However, would anyone (yeah, all three of ya!) who has read my posts PM me and let me know if I was making any sense, please? I feel like I'm too deep in the forest here and need to get re-orientated to a more global perspective on the whole thing. Thanks!

 

Alan

[THE_BEYONDER]

" I feel like I'm too deep in the forest here and need to get re-orientated to a more global perspective on the whole thing. "

 

That's how I feel everyday on this forum.

[PedigreeMan]

" I feel like I'm too deep in the forest here and need to get re-orientated to a more global perspective on the whole thing. "

 

That's how I feel everyday on this forum.

 

Yeah, but you like it in the forest 'cause that's where you've got your secret patch of "4:20."

[THE_BEYONDER]

" I feel like I'm too deep in the forest here and need to get re-orientated to a more global perspective on the whole thing. "

 

That's how I feel everyday on this forum.

 

Yeah, but you like it in the forest 'cause that's where you've got your secret patch of "4:20."

 

[Mister_Comics]

The best solution I've heard to date is to assign two grades--one to the interior and one to the exterior--and then do something to both of them to arrive at a final number.

 

It wouldn't be that hard for CGC to do just that. They already do this with certain issues. For example; DETECTIVE COMICS #700 gets a seperate grade for the outer sleeve that the comic comes in. (For those that don't know: DC#700 was sold in a special envelope) Both comic and envelope grades are shown on the label. So you know the grade of the book and the grade of the sleeve.

 

The two grade distinctions seems the more sensible whether its on a green Qualified or Blue label. It would be possible to then arive at a comparable grade in the case of this 6.0Q.

 

Very good idea

[PovertyRow]

You too, Pov!

 

Danged tree hugging hippie!

[greggy]

[Bugaboo-migration]

That greamlin sucks. Arch needs to replace it with this one.

[greggy]

That greamlin sucks. Arch needs to replace it with this one.

Screw you hippie!