lou_fine

Thanks Ricky, you still working at Camelot? I don't even think Camelot Comics is in business anymore. If you are referring to Richard which you must be, he is now the owner of the Bedrock City chain of comic books stores in Texas.

Are you stating a fact or asking if the statement is true or not? If your statement is in fact true, then this is probably why Overstreet raised his top of guide price for Spidey from $250 all the way up to $350 for an not so Overstreet-like 40% price increase.

We're not paying it... we're just reporting it. The most recent CGC 6.0 sale was $288. Amazing Spider-man #300 is entering the phase of "I just want a real copy" for collectors. There's possibly (because it isn't proven yet) a mindset that any book with a "True Believers" reprint should be valued highly if it's "the real thing"... since we're seeing several books which are generally plentiful rising in price around the same time the "True Believers" and other reprints are being put in front of collectors who may not have ever known about "the real thing" before. Actually, I thought you was talking about a possible near future situation for this book in terms of $300 for a mid-grade copy. I didn't realize the future was here already. If the buyer was willing to pay this kind of money for a mid-grade copy, why not simply wait and pay possibly just a bit more for a far superior copy in the upcoming auctions next week. It would appear to be much more value for your money if say either the CGC 9.0 or 9.2 graded copies ends up finishing only around the $350 to $400 price range. Yes, it would appear that Spidey 300 just might end up following behind Hulk 181's footprint. By this, I mean that the value of copies in all grades across the entire condition spectrum goes up and not only in the uber high grades. As I have stated in the past, to me that's a sign that a book is crossing over to becoming a true vintage comic book collectible, as opposed to being just a graded label collectible only.

It's interesting because books that sell in all grades usually have their mid-grade pricing driven by the entry point for a complete copy somewhere around 2.0. But there just aren't very many CGC 2.0 copies of ASM #300, so the question will be whether CGC 2.0 to CGC 4.0 of ASM #300 are also going to sell for $200+, or whether they'll be way under $200 (as they should be if you can get a CGC 6.0 for $300). Wow, haven't been paying much attention lately to Spidey 300, but you guys can't be serious about $200, let alone $300 for a mid-grade copy. Especially when the CGC census alone (without any count from the other company) appears to be closing in on 20K graded copies in total, with about 10,000 copies of these being in CGC 9.2 or higher. That's a whole ton of copies out there, even in the uber higher grades for buyers to choose from. In fact, if you take a look at both the CL and CL big summer auctions due to end next week, there are 5 HG copies on CL plus another 4 HG copies available for the CC auction. The part I don't seem to understand is why are the bids for the CL copies in the same CGC grades going for about $150 to almost $300 more for the equivalent graded copies on the CC auction site? In fact, the CGC 9.0 copy of Spidey 300 on CL is going (so far) for pretty much the same price as the CGC 9.2 graded copy on CC. Rather puzzling and yet this apparent pricing discrepancy between the 2 auction sites also seems to hold for other common CA hot books like Spidey 238, Daredevil 168, NM 98, etc. Go figure that??? Makes me wonder if this apparent pricing discrepancy is due to the customer base or is it due to the differing auction formats between the 2 auction houses? From my point of view, CL's reputation was originally built based more upon the recent books such as the BA and CA books, so their customer base might be much stronger here. CC's expertise and reputation goes further back to the GA and hence their customer base might not be so focused on the more recent BA and CA books. For example, if I was looking to buy or sell a pre-Robin 'Tec book, my first thought would be to check out CC as opposed to even bothering to look at CL. Or is it due more to the differing auction formats employed by both of these auction houses? With CL's auctions ending right at the listed end times, I guess there is no real reason to hold back on your bids and no reason for anybody to really toss in an "atomic bomb style sniping" bid at the end since if you don't win a Spidey 300 9.6 or 9.8, there'll be another one available in the CC auction right the next day. And on the other hand with CC's extended bidding format, I guess there is no real reason for serious bidders to toss in their real bids until the end when they can see what everybody else is bidding and they then have "full control" over the final bid. It will be interesting to see if this current pricing discrepancy between the 2 auction houses for these equivalent graded copies of common CA books still exist at the end of the auctions when it's all said and done, since financial arbitrage and common sense would dictate that there should not be a significant difference.

Hopefully, it doesn't get captured in GPA since it was sold as a set and how would you be able to segregate the prices between the 3 books. Probably for the best anyways, as I highly doubt that anybody is really going to believe that this set sold for $125K. Maybe for $125K in terms of the Venezuelan Bolivar. After all, who in their right mind would have enough confidence in CGC's grading consistency to be paying that kind of a premium for a CGC 9.9 graded book when it could just as easily come back as a CGC 9.8 or dare we say even as a CGC 9.6 if ever resubmitted. Of course, on the other hand, it could also come back as a CGC 10.0 graded copy the next time.

Can somebody help me find my uber HG raw copy of Hulk 181 before the bottom falls out of this little baby since I have absolutely no idea where it is?

+1 Personally, I think that both sites are just as easy to navigate. Although the CC site has a definite advantage in terms of providing potential bidders with a back cover image, I feel that the descriptive info provided by CL on each book can sometimes be helpful at times. It's just a matter of wading through the info provided by them and not falling for the upsell hype that is also there at the same time. From a consignor's point of view though, the descriptive info provided for each book on CL is a definite selling feature, as opposed to CC whereby they simply give each book the bare bones info (except for the exact same stick info on key books) and it's up to the books to really sell themselves or for a knowledgeable potential bidder to know themselves. Although there seems to be some improvement lately, CC really needs to up their game here if they want to get the quality consignments for their auctions, even if it means they have to hire an additional knowledgeable person to do this.

So, now if we put both of them together, they'll look like this: Now, wouldn't you much rather have these examples of Modern original comic art art hanging in your bedroom or living room, as opposed to those old boring comic art pieces by Alex Raymond, Hal Foster, Lou Fine, etc.?

Okay, just one more since I won't be able to sleep tonight anyways since i cannot unsee these images in my mind anymore. Of course, the great master artist himself, Mr. Rob Liefeld, has a completely different image when it comes to the female form:

Since they say a picture is worth a thousand words, just imagine how much 2 pictures can be worth then:

Boy, that is one of the most cringe-worthy statements I have ever had the mispleasure of reading! Now, now, you guys........we really should be more tolerant and understanding of the newer artists. Especially when the true king and master artist of them all is Mr. Rob Liefeld:

It certainly looks like Eldon kept his books in pretty nice shape, especially considering that these date all the way back to early 1937.

Reminds me a bit like the covers for Air Fighters #2 and Terrific Comics #4, but at a much lower price point I would imagine.

Absolutely love how strong and bold the colors are on this copy here.

Yes, but what happens if you actually end up winning one of them and it's completely overgraded and possibly even restored:

Welcome to the Centaur Club and a super fantastic pickup for your "virgin" Centaur comic book.

Speaking of Nedors, here's a beautiful copy with nice bright colors, lots of action and one of the better Fighting Yank covers:

Very neat indeed Yes indeed, especially when the prices on them are still so enticingly attractive. I imagine they won't end up like this by the end of the auction though. Especially when you see the books like the super rare 'Tec 2 in such bright beautiful condition and only at a tad over 25% to guide right now:

His daughter was happy. And yet if only she knew. I guess this is where the term "Ignorance is bliss" must apply. Hopefully for her own sake, she never finds out.

Yes, that's another definite advantage with the CC auction format because they have an exact time when the auction will end (or go into their extended bidding time period). No need to wait around forever or to just missed out on a lot due to bad timing. Why, you can even sneak out to the washroom if you happened to be out with your better half an go do your bidding from there if you don't want her to know about it.

When I see this scenario taking place, it signals to me that the book in question is starting to cross over from being primarily a graded label collectible to now becoming a true vintage comic book collectible.

This. This was and still remains the most successful way to ensure a profit when it comes time to sell. Whether it be in comics or the stock market. You are starting to sound a bit like Warren Buffet here who states "that the stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient." It's probably likewise with the comic book market also.

The caveat is that many buyers before CGC bought trimmed, color-touched, or otherwise altered books without knowing it. Some believe that an unrestored book sold to them as NM would be 9.4 if they had it graded. It might be 8.5. How many first-time CGC submitters get a rude awakening? All those decades of pre-CGC raw high grade universal keys... may not be. There's absolutely a reason that some (not all) dealers refuse to use CGC. It's because they would lose money. Overgrading (and manipulating) raw books has always been the most profitable model. It took CGC's arrival to stop/slow some of the worst offenders. And yet if you look at what's happening in today's marketplace, it would appear that we have definitely not learned from our past mistakes. It's just that the undisclosed manipulation of books has become much more subtle and rationalized as beneficial since it adds value to the book, as long as the potential purchaser is not made aware of what was done to the book. Especially in light of the fact that this undisclosed and manipulative practice is not only encouraged by the grading companies, but strongly supported as it adds additional streams of revenues to both their top line and to their bottom line. Similar in a way to how restoration was seen as a beneficial practice way back in the late 70's and early 80's as it was deemed to add value to an unrestored book. So much so, that Overstreet even dedicated an entire section in his guide with charts and graphs for trying to determine the incremental value of restored books over unrestored books, based upon the type and extent of work done to them. Isn't it amazing how the perceptions of collectors can changed so dramatically over an extended period of time. I can actually imagine and even foresee the day whereby advancing technology allows us to come up with a cost effective method to identify the undisclosed manipulative practices being done on books today. If so, I can certainly see the marketplace perception changing once again so that they would place a much higher value on the true unrestored books as compared to the "artificially improved" unrestored books of today.

Oh, so that's where Jon got his Mile High Wonderworld books from. Were these just the early issues or a large portion of the entire run since I know that Jon auctioned off his entire MH Wonderworld run on CC last summer? I guess if he got only some of the Church copies from you, he was able to put together the rest of the run from some other big collector or dealer. I know he got the Church run of Mystery Men from Geppi and Overstreet during the Diamond Int'l Galleries grand opening back in '95. I mentioned to him at the time that I was primarily interested in only Mystery Men #1 through #10. He commented that was the part of the run that he was really after, but it was either an all or nothing if he wanted to pick up the Mile High Mystery Men from Geppi and Overstreet at the time. Looks like he most definitely made the right choice in the end by taking the whole thing.

1) Overstreet is a gateway drug. You don't get to collecting key first appearances in CGC slabs without flipping through Overstreet. If some people can get to CGC keys without buying Overstreet, that improves my point. Although he original poster was talking about raw comic grades, I am quite sure he meant raw comic book prices. As such, I personally have never brought the argument that the valuations in Overstreet are based on raw comic book prices. I believe they are based upon whatever is the standard method (i.e. slabbed, raw, or combination of both) that is used to sell a particular book. By this, I mean since an Action 1 is always sold in a slabbed format, the prices in the guide reflects what a slabbed copy historically and conservatively have gone for. Take a look at all of the key sales that he identifies for certified comics and it's clear that these have been incorporated in part when come to determining the valuations in his guide. Of course, as we all know there are also a ton of sales of raw books, especially with the lower grade and more recent lower value books. Some of these key sales have also been identified in the Overstreet guide, and as such, I believe his valuations for things such as BA and CA books should rightfully be a blend of both slabbed and raw prices. You also have to remember that he does place valuations for books above NM- 9.2 since there is a much higher level of volatility in prices when you get to these nosebleed grades. Of course, these nosebleed grades are the ones that we usually talk about here when we say that Overstreet is completely out of touch with the marketplace. Likewise, his price guide doesn't place valuations for books below Good 2.0. As we have seen with most of the GA keys and even with most of the HTF GA books which only shows up in low grades if at all, they tend to sell at huge multiples of bottom of guide since collectors are just happy to even get an entry level copy of these books.