lou_fine

Ok, dug out my old copy of the '96 Overstreet guide to see what they had reported was happening in the 1995 comic book marketplace. It's good to see that Bob was into writing actual market reports back in those days, as opposed to what he does nowadays which is just an introductory paragraph followed by a few pages of nauseating excerpts from some of his advisors (i.e. dealers). Skip to the next post if you don't want to re-read what Bob had written in the first couple of paragraphs of his 1996 Annual Market report for 1995 sales: "Fueled by large increases throughout the Golden Age, prices in the comic marketplace soared to new record highs. Despite these new higher prices, demand for older comic books has continued to increase. So much so that Overstreet responded in the Fall with a complete Golden Age price update, a 500-page book entitled The Overstreet Comic Book Price Update. Once again the brisk price gains in the comic marketplace far outpaced the slower national rate of economic expansion." (notice how he always says this year after year. ) "GOLDEN AGE: Still the hottest area in collecting. Not only were the top companies' books, such as DC and Timely, selling for multiples of guide list, but the second tier of companies' books exploded with record sales reported throughout the year. The most astonishing changes were occurring with certain Fox, Nedor, Gleason, and MLJ titles. Prices paid for certain classic covers by Schomburg, Lou Fine, L.B. Cole, and others soared........" Well, you get the drift anyways. And for old slow conservative Bob who normally only gives small single digit increases to his Top 100 Golden Age List, it was definitely noteworthy that he had increased the prices by a whopping 32% for that year. Although the big books had year over year price increases of only around 20%, it was interesting to note that quite a few went up by more than 100%, with the big winner that year being Mystery Men #1. This key Fox book had an astounding increase of 305% as it went from $2,100 in the previous guide all the way up to $8,500 in just one year. Unfortunately, this probably pretty much killed much of the overheated demand for many of the early Fox books going forward, as collectors like to chase after what are deemed as undervalued books, as opposed to what are deemed as reasonably priced books.

I believe we are already there with respect to entry level copies and other low to mid grade copies of GA keys and/or HTF classic covers, as clearly evident from many of the recent auction results. Looks like collectors are often bidding aggressively and well into multiples of guide just to obtain a copy (even if it low grade) for their collection. Hard to say about the high grades though for some of these HTF books, because they often don't come into the marketplace that often to say for sure.

Flex; I guess it really depends on what type of books you are looking at, as the scenario you are describing of a widening gap in the back issue market between the high grades and the lower grades were certainly true in years past, but not so much during the recent few years. This same point was also brought up by Sean in his post on the CGC 8.5 Action 1 thread: In fact, if you look at some of the auctions over the past few years, entry level copies of many of these GA keys and classic covers are going for absolute silly multiples to guide. Just take a look at a book like 'Tec 31 which seems to have no problems fetching anywhere from $35K to $45K in even CGC 1.0 condition, the CGC 1.0 copy of Suspense Comics 3 which just went for over $20 in the recent CC auction, the raw copy of a Poor Action 13 that managed to fetch almost $15K on eBay a couple summers ago, etc. For a non-key and non-classic cover book, take a look at the raw VG+ copy of Wonderworld Comics 11 that sold for almost $3K on ebay a couple summers ago again. And yet what appears to be a very tightly graded CGC 8.0 copy (2nd highest graded behind only the Church copy) with a clipped coupon only managed to fetch $1,700 in the just completed CC auction. On the higher end books from a pricing point of view, it would appear that one of the key factors to take into consideration is affordability. As a result, since most collectors cannot afford to pay the big dollars for a high grade copy of a big book (if it even does come to market), they appear willing to compete and pay up for an entry level copy or other such lower grade just so they can have one in their collection. Of course, the scenario you are describing is indeed completely true for most SA books and BA books which are available in abundance.

Yes, good point, it would have had to done before it’s first slabbing and the rust would have had to be limited to staple (s) only That's also true -- not much chance that this particular book could fly under the graders' radar! I thought in theory only of course, is that the graders are only supposed to be grading the book that is in front of them at the time. So, in theory again, if somebody had gotten a professional to scrapped away the rust very very carefully so that it is completely unnoticeable, I assumed CGC would then be right in giving a blue label to the book.

Richard; That's EXACTLY why we are all here........to have a fun and happy time talking and speculating about our funny books.

If I remember correctly, the GA market was the hottest sector within the comic book market during that short period of time, as the MA market had already gone bust by then and the SA market had already peaked and was already into its cooling phase relative to the GA market by then .

I had a mixed bag, but mostly mid—high grade GA, including Bats and Tecs. No key books but some Joker covers. I'm pretty sure about the year. My only outlet for books was local dealers in the Detroit area; things may have been better elsewhere. From my point of view, the GA market is a highly specialized market and you would have to target the right kind of dealer and/or customer base if you are looking to sell your GA books. And these would in almost all cases NOT be your local based dealers who tend to be much more interested in mainstream books which their own customer base can relate to. These types of books would be more in the realm of the larger National dealers and auctions since their clientele would be interested in books like these. For example, even in this robust GA market which we apparently have right now, the biggest local comic shop owner in my city has absolutely no interest in picking up any of the so-called red hot Fox, Centaur, or any of the second tier titles that I mention to him sometimes. That's because his customer base is interested only in the SA Marvels, and if it comes to GA books, then primarily only your mainstream comic book characters such as Batman and Superman which are easily recognizable.

Actually, this concept of cycling though was also evident on a more macro level if you extend the time period. For example, the SA books started their rise in value in the very late 80's after almost a full decade of malaise where prices went absolutely nowhere, with even a hint of a slow downward drift in prices. I believe this rise in the valuations of the SA books was the fuel that ignited the MA boom once Image and Valiant appeared on the scene in the early 90's. The sharp increase in the valuations of GA books in the mid-90's from my point of view, was really nothing more than a big and much overdue catch-up to what had been happening earlier in terms of rapidly rising valuations within both the SA and MA markets.

Are you sure this was in 1995 because as far as I can remember, this was the time that even dealers such as Metro were offering multiples of guide for key or even semi-key GA books, especially if they were in condition? I guess it also depends on what type of GA books you had and in what type of condition they were in.

I believe the Modern bubble burst around the time of the Valiant Deathmate issues which came out in 1993 and 1994. If I remember correctly, the GA market started to catch fire in 1994 and then went absolutely ballistics in 1995, before petering out towards the end of '96. So, the hot and irrational exuberant time for the GA books was for a relatively short period of time. If I remember correctly, the demand cycled through from the mainstream publishers and keys right through to the second and third tier publishers and classic covers towards the end. Definitely a period marked with fast sales, rocking and rolling fun, and what was seen as astronomical prices at the time.

Come on, you guys. They are simply just trying to live up to their name by having all of their items sparkle like its shiny and brand new.

Thanks for the nice words, and while I still buy some books and enjoy chatting with everyone here, I'm not nearly active enough to do columns like that anymore - you should be asking Gator or one of the other guys who is really on top of the market. Sean; It was directly as a result of your Sleepers column in CBM that I gained the foresight to snagged books like Startling 10 and Jackpot 4 when they were still kind of flying under the radar at the time. I remember being at the Diamond Int'l Galleries Grand Opening back in '95 and fortunate enough to spot the Startling 10 and putting it into my pile. Fishler noticed it in in my pile and kept transferring it over into his pile of books before finally giving it back to me for good. His rationale was that he would be able to turn that book into a major key that would "rock and roll", whereas if it was sitting in my collection, it would be locked up in there for decades going absolutely nowhere. I guess in a sense he was absolutely correct.

Not that I know of. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. How do people structure it? Didn't Borock team up with somebody when he picked up the Church copy of More Fun 52 way back in the early 90's or was that all on his own?

It looks fine in the photo with the original holder from CC's website: Sean; Ok, you managed to twist my arm and convinced me with your photo here. I guess I'll step up to the plate here and dig deep into my pocket and see if I can fish out a dime to pay full price for this used book here. BTW: I really missed the Sleepers column you used to do in the pages of CBM back in the day. I guess there's no chance and not enough hours in the day for you to contemplate doing one for us here?

The 9.4 should be the Larson, which Berk had slabbed at the same time he sold the Church. The Allentown should still be raw and it also is a beautiful copy. I guess that's always quite possible as I was basing my info on the Allentown copy of Mystery Men 3 from the sample write-up for the Pedigree Book that I had received from West back in 2006. That master listing there indicated only 3 of the Mystery Men books had been graded by CGC to that point in time, with the MM 3 coming in at 9.4 and top marks going to Richard's former MM 13 which came in at a CGC grade of 9.6 NM+.

I have seen it. It's superb, nm or better. Adam; Have you seen quite a few of the Allentown Fox books so far in your travels? It seems that any of the Allentown Fox books that have been graded so far, have come out either higher or at the least tied with the Church copy. I believe the only exception so far has been the Mystery Men 3 with Berk;'s Church copy coming in at CGC 9.6 NM+, with the Allentown copy coming in at a mere CGC 9.4 NM.

Congrats on being able to pick up one of the true classic GA keys. You've done very well with this copy here, since entry level copies are worth a lot of money in today's current marketplace.

Either the Church 9.6 or the Allentown, similar, would be an upgrade. Nevertheless, it is a very pretty copy. Not so sure about the Allentown copy of WW 7 since I have never ever seen it, and I assume it must be locked away safely in a private collection somewhere. It would appeared that Payette had graded the Wonderworld 7 as a VF+ copy when he first discovered the Allentown Collection, but of course he was always known as a very tight grader. Wish more of the Allentown books would come out to the marketplace, but seems to be a highly desired pedigree that collectors are not willing to let go of once they have them.

Parts of the collection were de-accessioned via a Sotheby's auction in 1997. Wow, 1997 was starting to run pretty late as I assume that must then be one of the last auctions that Sotheby's did which included comic books.

Honestly, I thought that was a crazy price. I think you'll land a better copy for the same dough at some point. Still, those are always the fun kind of auctions to watch. Lots of fun and action with almost endless extended bids since this one had a total of 53 bids by the time it was all said and done. The real good ones are the ones that start to get a lot closer to 100 bids.

He’s a big art collector I believe was an early church authority iirc Yes, I still remember reading his multi-issue article on the Edgar Church Collection that ran in CBM #2 - #5. In fact, those early issues of CBM by Gary Carter was an absolute joy to read as there was just so much information packed into those pages and the absolute reading highlight for me as I used to scour the mailbox waiting for it every month. I believe that Pat was primarily a high-end pedigree type of collector only and is probably still the department head (brain specialist or something like that) of some hospital down in the Pittsburg area.

Bump in page quality, most likely pressed with no change in grade Maybe it's just the angle of the 2 photos, but the spine portion on the white part of the logo now seems to be a lot whiter than it was in the old slab.

Owner passed away Gator; Would you know if this is Kramer's former copy of Action 1 that he used to owned before he left the hobby?

Peter; Is this the scoop from Scoop that you are referring to : http://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1014?ArticleID=209106 Looks like they are going to name it the Second City Collection.

If it's a CGC 8.5 grade with the "former" rusty staples, would this be Danny Kramer's old copy before he left the hobby? I remember Danny really stormed onto the scene back in 1994 or thereabouts and was like a sponge in asking questions and soaking up as much knowledge as he could, at the same time as scooping up as many nice quality books as he could. Like many other collectors with deep pockets like that, he didn't stay around for the long term and was pretty much done with chasing down books after a few years.