lou_fine

Fantastic detailed look at the 3 major comic book auction sites here and some excellent points that I would definitely tend to agree with. Personally, I generally don't tend to participate in the CL auctions because I really don't care much for their auction format which is seemingly really geared more towards the Hail Mary last micro-second auction snipers. With respect to the CC auctions, the only ones which I really pay attention to are their major Event Auctions which comes out about four times a year. Definitely don't pay much attention to their monthly auctions as it is really "lesser" material and there are already too many auctions to keep track of nowadays. As for Heritage, it will be interesting to see what they have going forward. They seem to be drifting away from having large Signature Auctions which everybody here seems to pay attention to due to the quality books that they have. They now seem to be going to more of a Showcase auction format focusing in on specific comic book themes as per the 3 Showcase Auctions which they already have have scheduled for the month of February. Not sure if I care much for this seeming downsizing of their Signature Auctions, but I guess time will tell if it works or not.

No, most definitely more of an overall general comment as to how the BA and CA markets are currently doing as compared to the 2021 and early 2022 pandemic time period. Absolutely nothing personal at all as I do not know your personal collecting strategy/interests or speaking to any particular book in question, as I was really commenting more so on both @southern cross and your opinions that Heritage auction results are not showing much of a dip and are actually remaining pretty strong. With response to a long time boardie who had asked last week if BA and CA prices were in fact really actually dropping, I had pulled off a select listing of auction results from the Heritage Sunday/Monday auction for the previous weekend, and the answer was a definite YES, although it should be pointed out that they are clearly still higher than where they were prior to the pandemic time period: So, based upon results like the ones noted in my above post, nothing more than me just wondering about your general comment that prices on Heritage are still holding strong. If your point was really meant more that the Heritage results to your view are not holding strong to their own previous results, but are holding stronger when compared to CL auction results for the same book, then I would tend to agree with you here.

I have it on very good authority that it's definitely not Paul Allen. A long time ago. Oh, come on, you guys.......let's get serious here as this is the comics after all, and as we all know, nobody dies forever in the comic book world.

I was speaking more from a general POV, whereas of course there are clearly exceptions to the general trend when it comes to specific books. As to your earlier point that Heritage results remain pretty strong, are you saying that the books which you bid on and know very well are going at a lower price point on CL as compared to what they are going for on Heritage?

Agree, Heritage results remain pretty strong. If you are talking rom a BA and CA point of view, then clearly the both of you are not looking close enough at the previous auction results then.

Absolutely right and there's no need to check on the status of BA and CA as the roller coaster ride there was even steeper and deeper.

Yes, although that would certainly work in theory, but as we all know in the real world, reserves for some reason tends to be a big turnoff for a lot of potential bidders. So much so that a large majority of them won't even bother bidding, and in fact, would dismiss that particular auction lot entirely.

Well, an auction is a bit of a risk as it requires two willing parties to bid it up to your desired amount. That is, unless one of the "bidding parties" is named Halperin. A private sale is less of a risk, but requires the dealer to use their connections in the marketplace and work their butts off to find that ONE BUYER who is willing to give them the desired price that they want.

You mean old tech guys like Gates, Allen, and Wozniak. Well, I highly doubt Gates would be interested, but just maybe Paul Allen although he's busy with his sports teams, and then Wozniak is definitely so low profile you really never hear much about him anymore. As for somebody like Ronald Wayne, definitely too poor after selling his Founder's share of Apple back to Jobs and Wozniak for only $800. Can't be Elon or else you would see him come out dressed in his Superman suit and cape or with his Bat cowl going into his Batmobile.

Not so far to this current point in time, but then again the comic book marketplace tends to move in cycles, so who really knows. Case in point, I was watching the Heritage Sunday Auction for a bit last night and noticed this book seem to sell for a pretty strong price: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/detective-comics-82-dc-1943-cgc-vg-40-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122305-19343.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 I figure the GA market must still be running strong if a low.mid-grade non-classic comical Batman cover can still sell for $840 or 2.6X condition guide value with another 34 higher graded copies out there. From the Heritage scan here, definitely a nicely presenting copy relative to its assigned CGC 4.0 grade, but kind of makes me wonder what a HG copy of this book would go for in today's GA marketplace. Then again, maybe it's just that time of year and the bidders were all hyped up while watching the Super Bowl semi-finals at the same time.

So, I guess you are saying that Vinnie is telling us a big fib then and nothing more than BS in an attempt to hype the market on these books:

You mean this is the comic book version of Shooter and Steranko:

Sad to say, but from that con photo of him, it certainly appears that time and age has caught up to him like it will to all of us here. Best of luck to the OP in getting his signed and sketched book back.

Like this Rocket copy of the Action Comics 1, interesting to note that Goldin also had his mitts in on the Rally sale of the Larson Bat 1 for $2M: Any chance that Goldin in conjunction with both Metro for the Rocket Action 1 and then also with Rally for the Larson Batman 1 managed to offload both of these books to the same tech Golden Buyer here?

If this was one of the best collections, then it really confirms that VF is as good as it gets for a 1930s-era pulp. Well, I guess this means you are out of the game here, but happily for the other pulp collectors here, one less competitor to worry about.

That was the reason that was always cited for not slabbing pulps, so I had thought they had finally figured out some way to deal with it when they started talking about finally going forward with slabbing them. Rather surprised that you would be out of the loop on this one here, but indeed YES they have:

Maybe he simply wants to get an updated opinion from you some 6 years later as to the accuracy of your statement here:

Yes, doesn't seem to make much sense from a strictly financial POV unless he was given the inside scoop that the grading of slabs is still a work in progress and quite far in the distance. I know of a few collectors that have extensive pulp collections who are just waiting for CGC to implement grading for them, but definitely nothing at all like what the Kump's were able to compile and put together.

Then again, if it's to one of these newbie tech billionaires that we seem to have so many of nowadays, it might just be more for notoriety and bragging rights more than anything else. Especially if a few million dollars is really seen as nothing more than pocket change to them:

Well, according to @Kryptic1's post below, it's really quite straightforward in that Rally paid $1.34M for 80% of the Larson copy of Bat 1: Although it's a little bit of going through a mathematical maze to figure out who really came out on top in this transaction and it clearly was not Rally Road. Especially since 80% of the total $2M sales result would leave them with only $1.6M for their cut or a GROSS profit of only $260K and who knows what the net would be after factoring out all of the ancillary legal and admin costs of running a share ownership plan. Completely different case for the Goldin winner at $1.47M who then flips out a 80% portion to Rally for $1.34M leaving him with a 20% stake at a net cost of only $130K for the Larson Bat 1. His 20% cut of the $2M sales result works out to $400K which then leaves him with a net profit of $270K (with no major ancillary costs) on his initial net outlay of only $130K after a 16-month partial ownership of the book. Not too bad of an ROI and very astute or fortunate that it all worked out for him in the end.

If this book was posted in the spare a grade area with that bottom left corner, I wouldn't give it a 9.6. Agree that it looks like a spine tic, but I can only assume it isn't if it got a 9.9. Well, let's not forget that grading has certainly changed over the years from when CGC first opened their doors as compared to today. Especially since CGC's grading at the beginning was much more in line with the old school grading before Heritage arrived on the scene and before they got a chance to "fine tune" their grading standards to target specific defects. Compared it to nowadays and particularly with the current grading regime where it's all about the "additional revenue generating defects" and moving them to the top of their hit parade charts whereby everybody involved can make more money if they play by the rules of the game. Interesting to note that not only is this CGC 9.9 graded copy of Hulk 181 certified in the first year or so of CGC's existence, but that the highest graded copy of every single one of the Marvel SA first appearance issues (save for two of them) were also all graded during this same time period. So, within the past 20+ years of certification, we have yet to see another copy for any of these books (save for the two of them which I can't remember) surpass the graded condition level of those initial highest graded copies. Rather surprising considering the length of time (i.e. decades) involved and the number of copies graded for these issues during the past 20+ years. So, from your comments here, it would appear that both of you are looking at either a 2000 or early 2001 graded copy of Hulk 181 through eyes that are probably more attuned to 2023 grading standards.

I had been thinking the same thing and am hoping that some time can be put toward that later this year. Well, let's hope so although I would certainly not be willing to place any money on this long awaited book coming out anytime so, if ever. Best approach to take is to keep it to the historical aspect of the pedigree such as the back story of the original owners, the founders of the collection, the breadth and depth of the collection, etc, and forget about all of that CGC grading and census related crapola because that'll be out of date long before the book even sees print.

WTF....................you mean these aren't the CBCS boards here? Seriously though, definitely not the first time I've been here since it's pretty much like a Dead Zone on some of these Forums here as it can be almost endless hours or sometimes even days before a new post goes up on some of these Forums here nowadays. Stark contrast to when I first got here almost 20 years ago when this was a much more lively and boisterous place with new postings almost every minute.

Well, like others have already stated here, if it's big time dealers involved in the interim buying, maybe it really is all about "laddering up" the value of the book until they can offload it to a so-called "Golden Buyer": Definitely also reinforces, albeit it rather artificially, the continuing upward price trajectory for this book which is a positive for dealers like Metro, and as we all know, whenever there's a record-setting transaction involving a copy of Action 1, the boys at Metro always seem to be involved in it one way or the other.