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alxjhnsn

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Posts posted by alxjhnsn

    The Canon

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    I'm pretty sure a list with comic strip guys (short form) and comic book guys (long form) is apples and oranges to start.

    Still, it's not a bad list. I wonder if anyone has built a "coaching tree" for these guys to see how many others picked up their style. That would be interesting.

     

    Closed

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    One standard answer - hidden because I don't want to bore everyone that has seen it before.

     

    Spoiler

    You might want to explore the following resources

    • The website Comic Art Tracker can help you find art and look at current asking prices for similar pieces.
    • The OA auction archive at Heritage Auctions – This archive presents the results from all of their OA auctions.. Once you sign-up and get an id, you can search for pieces by your artist and see what they have sold for.
    • The CAF Market Data - More auction results (more than 1,000,000) are available if you join the Comic Art Fans site, pay for Market Data access, and access eBay and other auction sites as well as Heritage.
    • The Comic Art Database. It contains transaction records entered by the owners of Comic OA.
    • Dealer sites. Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. There is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and the Dragonberry site has a list as well. The CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you. [Of course, Comic Art Tracker is better.]
    • Blouin Art Info which tracks sales at major art auctions. It can turn up some Comic OA as well. Look for the “Art Prices” item on the top right of the screen
    • Jerry Weist's Comic Art Price Guide - Heritage published a third edition of it. In my opinion, it's a good history book and might be useful for comparison work, but it was out of date a year before it was printed.
    • A topic  on the CGC OA boards, A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes?, holds a discussion that relates to your question. It provides some "generally agreed upon" ranges for popular runs by popular artists on popular characters.
    • The Biggest OA Prices thread tracked some of the largest sales in the OA space. While that particular thread has stopped; it's probably worth reading for the discussions. Meanwhile , the information is still being updated - just with a different mechanism.
    New buyers and sellers often find that OA is too hard to price. I agree that it is difficult. However, I think that there is a valid reason. Each piece is unique. Uniqueness make art sales generally and OA specifically non-linear.

     Examples of how piece can differ in ways that impact pricing include:

     

    • Content: Consecutive pages could and do sell for radically different amounts based on their content. 
    • Page Layout: In general, you might say:

               Covers > 1st Page Splash > Other Splash > 1/2 splash > panel page

    However, that's not always true either. The right panel page can be much more compelling than a bland splash.

    • Penciler vs. character: There are "A-list" artists, but not all of their books/characters have the same value. Kirby FF pages generally go for more than JIM/Thor pages which go for more than Cap pages (2nd run) which go for more than ...
    • Pencilers/inkers combinations - Kirby/Sinnott FF pages rank above Kirby and anyone else on FF, but a Kirby/InkerX FF page might be more or less than a Kirby/Stone Thor page. Hard to tell.

     

    Finally, you should join the comic book OA community. The three main points of Internet contact are:

    The main points of physical contact are probably:

    One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.

     

     

    Kickstarter projects

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    On 2/22/2019 at 12:26 PM, Dr_Strange said:

    This one really annoyed me. Walter did a really nice sketch for me as part of this. Hoveke never sent it or my copy of the comic.  I got a pdf of the book.  He’s never replied to any emails

    Worse, I talked to the artist and the books were printed and made it to Hoveke's garage and then it stopped. I suspect that he ran out of money to mail the books and pay the income taxes. That was pretty common in the early days of Kickstarter. The artist, Ben Risbeck, offered to send me a copy, but I declined since it would be unfair to everyone else.

    The OFFICIAL "This week in your ORIGINAL ART collection?"

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    On 1/23/2019 at 1:00 PM, awayne83 said:

    It really impressed me in person (the copics look fantastic)

     

    Regarding copic colors, they do look great when applied. However, they are not archival and will fade. The best you can do is keep them out of the light.

    From their website:

    ▼ Will Copic ink on artwork fade over time?
    Dyes are artificial material made through chemical processes and are not usually as archival as pigment products.
    In general, dyes are susceptible to ultraviolet rays. Copic inks are a dye and Copic-colored images will fade under direct sunlight or fluorescent light. If your artwork with Copic will be put up in well-lighted area, it is better to seal it with a UV blocking seal.

    So be careful.

    Best of........ Future (Feedback)

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    A few thoughts:

    • Minimize the effort required to enter
      • I'd prefer to have a button appear on the CAF items posted during 2018 that allows me to enter it with one click. It would remove the oldest Lowry entry auto-magically.
    • Minimize the effort to vote.
      • Navigation improvements
      • I find myself opening several on my first pass. It would be sweet to have a panel where I can "send" the interesting ones and have those images enlarge to closer viewing.
      • Building on that "panel" concept, I'd like to be able to order them and hit one button to vote.
    • Minimize the effort to put a comment on the item in its CAF Gallery as opposed to the Lowry.
      • There should be a link that takes you to the original or the original is what we see in the Lowry.

    I don't pay attention to the owner name during voting, but if it's a problem to people, I don't care if it's dropped, but I would would it to be retained on the winner's list.

    Historical data would be great.

    The flag would be fun especially if we could search on it (year, category, flag) from the main page.

    Hope this is useful.

    What’s it going to cost?

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    FWIW, here's my standard answer on how to price OA. It's not an algorithm, but a guide to finding the information that you need. In spoilers because it's long and lots of people have seen it more than once before. :)

    Spoiler

    You might want to explore the following resources

    • The website Comic Art Tracker can help you find art and look at current asking prices for similar pieces.
    • The OA auction archive at Heritage Auctions – This archive presents the results from all of their OA auctions.. Once you sign-up and get an id, you can search for pieces by your artist and see what they have sold for.
    • The CAF Market Data - More auction results (more than 1,000,000) are available if you join the Comic Art Fans site, pay for Market Data access, and access eBay and other auction sites as well as Heritage.
    • The Comic Art Database. It contains transaction records entered by the owners of Comic OA.
    • Dealer sites. Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. There is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and the Dragonberry site has a list as well. The CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you. [Of course, Comic Art Tracker is better.]
    • Blouin Art Info which tracks sales at major art auctions. It can turn up some Comic OA as well. Look for the “Art Prices” item on the top right of the screen
    • Jerry Weist's Comic Art Price Guide - Heritage published a third edition of it. In my opinion, it's a good history book and might be useful for comparison work, but it was out of date a year before it was printed.
    • A topic  on the CGC OA boards, A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes?, holds a discussion that relates to your question. It provides some "generally agreed upon" ranges for popular runs by popular artists on popular characters.
    • The Biggest OA Prices thread tracked some of the largest sales in the OA space. While that particular thread has stopped; it's probably worth reading for the discussions. Meanwhile , the information is still being updated - just with a different mechanism.
    New buyers and sellers often find that OA is too hard to price. I agree that it is difficult. However, I think that there is a valid reason. Each piece is unique. Uniqueness make art sales generally and OA specifically non-linear.

     Examples of how piece can differ in ways that impact pricing include:

     

    • Content: Consecutive pages could and do sell for radically different amounts based on their content. 
    • Page Layout: In general, you might say:

                  Covers > 1st Page Splash > Other Splash > 1/2 splash > panel page

    However, that's not always true either. The right panel page can be much more compelling than a bland splash.

    • Penciler vs. character: There are "A-list" artists, but not all of their books/characters have the same value. Kirby FF pages generally go for more than JIM/Thor pages which go for more than Cap pages (2nd run) which go for more than ...
    • Pencilers/inkers combinations - Kirby/Sinnott FF pages rank above Kirby and anyone else on FF, but a Kirby/InkerX FF page might be more or less than a Kirby/Stone Thor page. Hard to tell.

    Finally, you should join the comic book OA community. The three main points of Internet contact are:

    The main points of physical contact are probably:

    One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.

     

    Best of 2018 - Just a few hours left to vote (Post your selections here)

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

     

    Okay, I vote for things that I’d like to own. I freely admit that my taste is odd and that I will pass over obviously “better” acquisitions (historic, artistic, whatever) when I make my choices. So, apologies in advance.

     
    Cover
     
    I’m a fan of this book and the work Dean has been doing. It’s an odd book, but very compelling. Just when you think you understand, you discover that you really don’t. So, it’s not just the cover, but the series that pulls in my vote.
     
    So much going on in Sergio’s work. It’s fun.
     
    First Joker cover by his creator; yeah, that would fit in my collection quite nicely if I win one of the big lotteries! Glad it’s survived for so long.
     
    I love Frank’s work on this book and this cover is no exception.
     
    Between Howard Purcell and Russ Heath, the Sea Devils had the best covers. I didn’t buy the book very often, but I loved the covers.
     
     
    Honorable Mention
    Black Panther by Jack Kirby! How does this not make the top 5? I question my judgement, but there you go.
     
    Batman, a Cardy Girl, Suspense, a colleague turned murderer, what more do you want?
     
    Hannah and friends. I want to know the story.
     
     
    Splash Pages, Pinups
    Drawn by Curt to help John. I held this in my hand once. It’s very cool piece of art and I’d be glad to hang it on my wall.
     
    There are so many JK creations (New Gods, Thor, Forever People, Ego, etc.) that I like, but I think the Inhumans are my favorite. Yes, this would fit my collection nicely. :)
     
    Letters, pencils, and inks. 200+ pages of great art every year. Jim Aparo was amazing. This splash from his Spectre run in Adventure is everything one could want.
     
    I remember this splash in the comic. Nestor Redondo doesn’t get enough credit. Just beautiful work.
     
    I’ve never heard of Jael or Dan Smith, but if he drew like this all the time that’s my misfortune. Wonderful work. I want to know her story.
     
    Honorable Mention
    I haven’t read this book, but I’ve always liked Sean’s art and based on this page, I’d like what he did in B:WK.
     
    Love detailed pages like this. The mouse in her hand is a nice touch.
     
     
    Interior Panel Pages
    My favorite Batman artist? Sprang or Marshall Rogers especially with Austin inking. It’s a little like Schrodinger’s cat, I’m not sure which I like better.
     
     
    My favorite Ditko comic? The Creeper; not Spidey. This page would look nice on my wall. :)
     
    Any page from the Rocketeer would get my vote. Dave’s work is so good.
     
    How can you not love Dragon Man? I do. 
     
    I think Papp is underrated. His story telling is clear and his art is fine. Plus this is Mon-El’s introduction and one of my favorite stories.
     
    Honorable Mention
    My favorite Batman run - Englehart/Rogers/Austin. They were magic. This page would fill in nicely though I’d prefer Austin. :)
     
    My favorite Buscema inker is Tom Palmer overall, but on Conan, I really loved Alcala. This is a nice page from the pair.
     
     
    Strip Art
    I struggled with my 5th piece. I really wanted to enter my Wallace the Brave strip  but opted for my Ruse Simon and Emma (which I put in the wrong section - sigh…). Wallace the Brave is a great strip; you can read it for free on GoComics.
     
    A lovely example rich with detail. Superman flying and saving while using his x-ray and telescopic vision to see that bad guys.
     
    The Dragon Lady teaching Terry to dance. Who would have expected that? Excellent strip that Jeff fully explains in his Description I might give him a vote just for having a great description.
     
    Nice Crumb example featuring the ever famous Mr. Natural. How could I resist?
     
    Charlie Brown, Lucy, and the philosophical exchange that I admired so much in the early Peanuts.
     
    Charlie Brown and his hopes for his baseball team. He is an inspiration to us all!
     
     
    Commissions:
    I’m married to a crazy cat lady. She came clearly labeled as such (refrigerator magnet read - Love me, love my cat - though it should have said cats!). So, seeing Batman in this position spoke to me. Not to mention I really like Bill’s work.
     
    Just a powerful image. I know it’s a recreation, but it doesn’t change the impact especially on Supes. Wonderful execution by James as well.
     
    I’m a fan of Mark’s work and this is about as good a piece as I’ve seen by him. A striking image.
     
    Wow! This image really makes me want to know the story behind it. Ray’s description nails it - In a single image, one can be introduced to a narrative of mystery, intrigue, and danger. The perspective allows the mind to fill in details unseen, engaging the imagination, and making the viewer sense the emotions in the characters and think about what might happen next. The 'Before' and 'After' moments that this art implies really grab the viewer. It is a graphic story full of suspense - all in a single image. 
     
    A cute sketch that makes me smile. I’m partial to Farel’s work and this is a terrific example.
     
    Love C&H and this piece makes me smile. 
     
     
    Sketch Covers/Convention Sketches
    Well, this is embarrassing. My Ruse Simon and Emma was filed in the wrong spot! :( Sorry about that. Not sure how it happened. Sigh…
     
    Anyway, there are lots of nice sketches here. These are my favorites:
     
    Daniel Govar work stands out no matter the subject. I really need to hire him to do something, but what? :( Do this at a con is remarkable.
     
    Terrific Batman image. I’m not a huge Batman fan, but he does dramatic poses really well. :) I do wonder what/who he is chasing.
     
    I have the book where Jennifer debuted and it’s amazing. Of course, that’s true for most of Bernie’s work and this is no exception. Poor kid.
     
    Jim can do so much with just a little. Nice design as one would expect and excellent execution. His signature is a piece of art in its own right.
     
    Beautiful, a lovely treatment that captures much of the mood from the original. Bruce is so good.
     
    Honorable Mention
    I find it hard to believe that this isn’t in my top five because it’s terrific.
     
     
    Other
    This section was filled with riches. One of the deepest list that I’ve seen of stuff that I’d like to own. Wow! Here are my choices, but there were many, many more that I’d love to add to my collection. Yes, I cannot believe that I didn’t put a David Stevens piece in my top 5. Sigh..
     
    Shuster Superman! The only thing better would be Lois and Superman. Great pose and nicely drawn. One of my all-time favorites.
     
    Barks, ducks, action! What a great example of Barks’ work. What a find.
     
    Sprang Batman is the best Batman, IMHO. My top five Batman artists are Sprang, Rogers, Adams, Aparo, and whoever you like best. 
     
    I saw this at SDCC ’17. What a painting. If you read comics in the 80s, the best books were LSH, X-Men, and TT by Wolfman/Perez. This image captures that era perfectly. George at his best.
     
    Yeah, okay. I’m impressed. A striking drawing by Jack. Love his pencils. Wow!
     
    Honorable Mentions
    A beautiful example of Dave’s drawing and inking. I am not really a Vampy fan, but this drawing will steal your heart.
     
    James  Cawley's Lowry Snowy Valentine by David Petersen
    I’m a fan of David’s work and Snowy Valentine is a sweet tale. I wish I’d bought art from that book when it was available. 
     
    Other’s that i liked included Dancing Maiden by Krenkel, FF by Anacleto, Issac Asimov’s SciFi Mag by Schomburg, and The Wheel by Tim Truman. 
     
    Overall this section was unbelievable.

     

    Crom! HELP AN OLD GUY OUT! Need some advise?

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    Here's my standard answer on this topic. I think it's useful especially the last line.

     

    Spoiler
    You might want to explore the following resources
    • The website Comic Art Tracker can help you find art and look at current asking prices for similar pieces.
    • The OA auction archive at Heritage Auctions – This archive presents the results from all of their OA auctions.. Once you sign-up and get an id, you can search for pieces by your artist and see what they have sold for.
    • The CAF Market Data - More auction results (more than 1,000,000) are available if you join the Comic Art Fans site, pay for Market Data access, and access eBay and other auction sites as well as Heritage.
    • The Comic Art Database. It contains transaction records entered by the owners of Comic OA.
    • Dealer sites. Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. There is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and the Dragonberry site has a list as well. The CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you. [Of course, Comic Art Tracker is better.]
    • Blouin Art Info which tracks sales at major art auctions. It can turn up some Comic OA as well. Look for the “Art Prices” item on the top right of the screen
    • Jerry Weist's Comic Art Price Guide - Heritage published a third edition of it. In my opinion, it's a good history book and might be useful for comparison work, but it was out of date a year before it was printed.
    • A topic  on the CGC OA boards, A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes?, holds a discussion that relates to your question. It provides some "generally agreed upon" ranges for popular runs by popular artists on popular characters.
    • The Biggest OA Prices thread tracked some of the largest sales in the OA space. While that particular thread has stopped; it's probably worth reading for the discussions. Meanwhile , the information is still being updated - just with a different mechanism.

    New buyers and sellers often find that OA is too hard to price. I agree that it is difficult. However, I think that there is a valid reason. Each piece is unique. Uniqueness make art sales generally and OA specifically non-linear.

     

    Examples of how piece can differ in ways that impact pricing include:

    • Content: Consecutive pages could and do sell for radically different amounts based on their content. 
    • Page Layout: In general, you might say:
      • Covers > 1st Page Splash > Other Splash > 1/2 splash > panel page
      • However, that's not always true either. The right panel page can be much more compelling than a bland splash.
    • Penciler vs. character: There are "A-list" artists, but not all of their books/characters have the same value. Kirby FF pages generally go for more than JIM/Thor pages which go for more than Cap pages (2nd run) which go for more than ...
    • Pencilers/inkers combinations - Kirby/Sinnott FF pages rank above Kirby and anyone else on FF, but a Kirby/InkerX FF page might be more or less than a Kirby/Stone Thor page. Hard to tell.

     

    Finally, you should join the comic book OA community. The three main points of Internet contact are:

    The main points of physical contact are probably:

    One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.

     

    Jim Lee Batman Hush help

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    13 hours ago, campued1010 said:

    Hello fellow collectors, looking for some help regarding pricing on Jim Lee Hush pages. If you are knowledgeable on these pages please pm me. 

    Thanking you in advance 

    Andre

     

    Here's my standard information on how to price OA. It's generic so it may or may not be useful.

     

    Spoiler

    You might want to explore the following resources

    • The website Comic Art Tracker can help you find art and look at current asking prices for similar pieces.
    • The OA auction archive at Heritage Auctions – This archive presents the results from all of their OA auctions.. Once you sign-up and get an id, you can search for pieces by your artist and see what they have sold for.
    • The CAF Market Data - More auction results (more than 1,000,000) are available if you join the Comic Art Fans site, pay for Market Data access, and access eBay and other auction sites as well as Heritage.
    • The Comic Art Database. It contains transaction records entered by the owners of Comic OA.
    • Dealer sites. Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. There is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and the Dragonberry site has a list as well. The CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you. [Of course, Comic Art Tracker is better.]
    • Blouin Art Info which tracks sales at major art auctions. It can turn up some Comic OA as well. Look for the “Art Prices” item on the top right of the screen
    • Jerry Weist's Comic Art Price Guide - Heritage published a third edition of it. In my opinion, it's a good history book and might be useful for comparison work, but it was out of date a year before it was printed.
    • A topic  on the CGC OA boards, A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes?, holds a discussion that relates to your question. It provides some "generally agreed upon" ranges for popular runs by popular artists on popular characters.
    • The Biggest OA Prices thread tracked some of the largest sales in the OA space. While that particular thread has stopped; it's probably worth reading for the discussions. Meanwhile , the information is still being updated - just with a different mechanism.

    New buyers and sellers often find that OA is too hard to price. I agree that it is difficult. However, I think that there is a valid reason. Each piece is unique. Uniqueness make art sales generally and OA specifically non-linear.

    Examples of how piece can differ in ways that impact pricing include:

    • Content: Consecutive pages could and do sell for radically different amounts based on their content. 
    • Page Layout: In general, you might say:
      • Covers > 1st Page Splash > Other Splash > 1/2 splash > panel page
      • However, that's not always true either. The right panel page can be much more compelling than a bland splash.
    • Penciler vs. character: There are "A-list" artists, but not all of their books/characters have the same value. Kirby FF pages generally go for more than JIM/Thor pages which go for more than Cap pages (2nd run) which go for more than ...
    • Pencilers/inkers combinations - Kirby/Sinnott FF pages rank above Kirby and anyone else on FF, but a Kirby/InkerX FF page might be more or less than a Kirby/Stone Thor page. Hard to tell.

    Finally, you should join the comic book OA community. The three main points of Internet contact are:

    The main points of physical contact are probably:

    One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.

     

    ORIGINAL ART TO SELL ,COMIC CONNECT OR COMICLINK?

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    Here's my standard answer on pricing comic art. It might be useful.

     

    Spoiler

    ou might want to explore the following resources

    • The website Comic Art Tracker can help you find art and look at current asking prices for similar pieces.
    • The OA auction archive at Heritage Auctions – This archive presents the results from all of their OA auctions.. Once you sign-up and get an id, you can search for pieces by your artist and see what they have sold for.
    • The CAF Market Data - More auction results (more than 1,000,000) are available if you join the Comic Art Fans site, pay for Market Data access, and access eBay and other auction sites as well as Heritage.
    • The Comic Art Database. It contains transaction records entered by the owners of Comic OA.
    • Dealer sites. Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. There is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and the Dragonberry site has a list as well. The CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you. [Of course, Comic Art Tracker is better.]
    • Blouin Art Info which tracks sales at major art auctions. It can turn up some Comic OA as well. Look for the “Art Prices” item on the top right of the screen
    • Jerry Weist's Comic Art Price Guide - Heritage published a third edition of it. In my opinion, it's a good history book and might be useful for comparison work, but it was out of date a year before it was printed.
    • A topic  on the CGC OA boards, A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes?, holds a discussion that relates to your question. It provides some "generally agreed upon" ranges for popular runs by popular artists on popular characters.
    • The Biggest OA Prices thread tracked some of the largest sales in the OA space. While that particular thread has stopped; it's probably worth reading for the discussions. Meanwhile , the information is still being updated - just with a different mechanism.

    New buyers and sellers often find that OA is too hard to price. I agree that it is difficult. However, I think that there is a valid reason. Each piece is unique. Uniqueness make art sales generally and OA specifically non-linear.

     

    Examples of how piece can differ in ways that impact pricing include:

    • Content: Consecutive pages could and do sell for radically different amounts based on their content. 
    • Page Layout: In general, you might say:

     Covers > 1st Page Splash > Other Splash > 1/2 splash > panel page

    However, that's not always true either. The right panel page can be much more compelling than a bland splash.

    • Penciler vs. character: There are "A-list" artists, but not all of their books/characters have the same value. Kirby FF pages generally go for more than JIM/Thor pages which go for more than Cap pages (2nd run) which go for more than ...
    • Pencilers/inkers combinations - Kirby/Sinnott FF pages rank above Kirby and anyone else on FF, but a Kirby/InkerX FF page might be more or less than a Kirby/Stone Thor page. Hard to tell.

    Finally, you should join the comic book OA community. The three main points of Internet contact are:

    The main points of physical contact are probably:

    One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.

     

    Best of 2018 - Discuss your nominees here

    in Original Comic Art

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Oddball said:

    Not in my case. I would love to add a nostalgic story or a long hunt or tooth and nail auction battle. Only picked up a couple of modern covers in 2018 from books I've never read or even heard of. Basically: Oh, I like this image - (clicks virtual button online making the piece mine). 

    I did have a great experience with Claudio here on the boards when I picked up his 90's Lady Death cover in January. Never read that book either but the cover was burned in my brain from seeing it at comic shops everywhere in the mid-nineties. I also ended the year with a Jock Batman cover that replaces the last Jock Batman cover I had traded away. (Regret)  Both are similar with close-up on Batman's face.

    I find all of that fascinating. There's always something to say about an item you buy within a hobby. (Less to say about toilet paper and toothpaste, I guess).