erehwon

Agreed, it would be very interesting to see what CGC would do with a complete issue of Cheri... But I would also have misgivings about the wrapper surviving the encapsulation process. 50, would love to hear what the results are should you decide to submit your issue. wpbooks, I like the idea of fashioning the poster slabs for grading RAW sized mags... Then we could also get Foopgoop Frolics, Kaz's Buzz Bomb, and maybe even Vaughn Bode's Zooks graded. The discussion of loose inserts reminds me of YPS, one of my favorite comics growing up as a kid in Switzerland. The inserts were ridiculous. Every issue was polybagged and basically included a deluxe sized toy. Here's a few example: rjpb, you bring up a good point about the comics included with toys, records, and in cereal boxes, and how they are rightly designated as separate entities from the items they came with when graded by CGC. Things start to get really murky when we are grading magazines that include a half dozen inserts--some of which might not be attached to the magazine or not even made of paper (e.g., CDs, flexi discs, or toys as with YPS). Magazines and comics that include loose inserts are often polybagged, and, as can be gleaned from the policy on some modern polybagged books, CGC does not consider the loose items that come inside pollybags as determinative of the grade of the comic removed from polybags: As with the modern book Superman #75 for example, CGC will remove the comic from the bag for grading, and the presence or absence of the card and poster that came with the comic in the ploybag bares no consequence on the grade the comic receives. A lot of the value of YPS is contingent on the comic still being sealed in its polybag, so perhaps AFA would be the more appropriate venue for grading (particularly for that snazzy issue with the Star Wars figure insert).

I think wpbooks said it the best, "So much confusion and so much beauty....I weep."

If you recall, the same question sort of came up in the underground thread in reference to the Mouse insert that sold at Heritage last month. When removed from RAW magazine, CGC treats the insert as a standalone comic; sometimes the label notes that it is an insert (as with the recent CGC 8.0 on Heritage), and sometimes it doesn't (as with the CGC 9.4 currently on ebay). As you mention, RAW is too big to have graded, but let's say someone submits a Surfer Vol. 12 #6 without the Tales from the Tube insert, or a December '76 issue of Cheri without the Carload O' Comics insert: Would CGC grade those magazines as complete with a mere notation on the label that the insert is missing? Probably not. It's an interesting question to consider how CGC might handle a complete copy of Surfer or Cheri with the comic still attached. Personally, I would like to see the label make mention of the fact that the magazine contains a comic, but, given that the comic is part of the magazine, it wouldn't really make sense to assign it a separate grade. Then again, in light of the policy regarding the Mouse insert, perhaps CGC would assign the insert a second grade. We all know that double covers receive two grades, but if the outside cover is removed and resubmitted for grading, it will obviously be deemed incomplete (the sticker on the label will simply read CVR). Presumably, copies of Surfer or Cheri without their respective inserts would also be deemed incomplete. At least there would appear to be some consistency here in that what is removed from the outside is always what's rendered incomplete in the act of removing; whether it is the second cover removed from a double covered comic, or the magazine from which the insert is removed. But magazines are not the covers of the comics that are contained within them, so any perceived consistency on the part of CGC gleaned from this analogy would appear to be ill-considered.

So is this a Tijuana Bible style tie-in? I've long been a fan of Brand's work. His Floating Head homages to Russ Heath's precode "Brain" stories are classic! It's a cheaply produced eight-pager with pornographic content, so it definitely goes in the direction of a Tijuana bible; however, it's saddle stitched, the paper is newsprint throughout, and it's bigger in size than your average Tijuana bible. In case you haven't already come across it, check out this excellent feature that Kim Deitch wrote about Roger Brand for the Comics Journal. Both the article and the comments section are well worth the read. http://www.tcj.com/a-lousy-week-for-woods-remembering-roger-brand/

In the late 60's, the history of counter cultural comics and underground films merged for a brief moment in San Francisco. During that time, the great Roger Brand did occasional poster and add work for the pioneering adult film company Leo Productions, for which he also produced this little movie tie-in comic. (Another promotional comic by an underground cartoonist most definitely not found in the OSPG.)

Thanks for the inspiration. I would never have thought of writing to Mr. McCarthy had it not been for our conversation.

thanks guys!

I'm with you, I'd love to know the story behind the book. It's one of my favorites, both for the quality of it's production and it's content. Recently, an ebay seller by the name of mr-comixking has been selling several pristine copies of the book. The seller is likely Errol McCarthy, the artist behind Real World Comix, or a relative of his; besides underground comix, the seller is also selling sketches and concept drawings by McCarthy. On a side note, McCarthy is best known for his work at Mattel, where since the early 80's he has been the creative force behind illustrating action figure lines like He-Man, Hot Wheels, and many others. I believe the Kennedy Guide states that 200 of the 325 originally produced copies were distributed through Kitchen Sink; the copies surfacing on e-bay now are likely whatever remains of the books that were not distributed. Perhaps, the best way to settle our curiosity is to inquire with mr-comixking about the story behind Real World Comix. As it turns out, the seller account mr-comixking on ebay is run by agents of Errol McCarthy. They were kind enough to patch me through to him and I was able to ask him about some of the questions we had about Real World Comix. Here's my message to him: Thank you for agreeing to answer some of our queries! We are particularly interested in the creative history and printing history of Real World Comix. First, we were curious about the context in which Real World Comix came about and your inspiration behind the work. Second, we were wondering about how you came to print the book in such an unusual deluxe format and in such a limited quantity: We understand that 200 of the 325 printed copies were distributed through Kitchen Sink; is there anything you can tell us about the circumstances behind this arrangement? Also, why was there no price on the front cover? Finally, we would love to know how Real World Comix came to appear in Apple Pie Vol. 1 #5; perhaps there is not much to this last point, but we found it rather interesting (and unusual for the time) how Real World Comix was inserted into Apple Pie. And Mr. McCarthy's reply: Thanx for your interest in that ancient tome. Now here goes.... The reason for Real World was this:I was getting an M.A. at Cal State LA in about 1971 and wanted to do my own Underground comic as my thesis. I had just started doing hot rod themed comics for Petersen Pub. as a sideline & wanted to continue to do comic art. Amazingly, Cal State approved the theme, so I started-first on a paper explaining the then new Underground Comic movement, then I started on the comic itself. The cover was inspired by observing some of my fellow students who seemed determined to stay in school and avoid "The Real World"! Later,the Apple Pie story was a continuation of the cover theme. A friend with a print shop produced the book. Doing 300 copies was quite a job! It was the state of the art at that time with my budget. I got my M.A., then tried to peddle the book & contacted Dennis Kitchen and other publishers, including Larry Flynt. There was no cover price because it wasn't going to be sold retail. Mr. McCarthy also expressed a willingness to answer additional questions, in case anyone would like to know more.

Promethean may be my favorite 'fanzine' of all time. really wish there were more than just five issues. For me it's up there with Squa Tront and Witzend!!! I agree 100%. It's a marvelous series that is pretty much firing on all cylinders. I get weak in the knees when I see Griffin's scarabs.

More tabloids and comix.

Sounds incredible. They have such unassuming covers; fooled not just the OSPG, but me too! I know I have at least one issue here somewhere... I'll keep my eyes open for it next time I sift through my comic boxes.