timfinz

Nice group of Caps Kenners!

Very nice! Star Wars hmmmm

A very warm to the boards Kevin! Your story is very heart warming! Thanks for sharing!

A warm to the boards Cesar! Hope you have more fun here than your Hulk 181 experience!

Welcome to the boards Nick. I hope you enjoy your time on the boards. Feel free to check out the NOOB Guide posted in this section of the forum.

You should see what you got back this week from CGC! Spooky!

Nice haul!

Hey! Hey! Hey greggy! Nice set of books! Hey! Hey Hey! synch! Nice set of boobks! hehe!

A very warm Jason, Chris, Randy and Velizar to the boards! Hope you enjoy yourself and have some fun!

Great room! Love the spinner rack, but watch out for the kids fanning the books!

It was blue twice, so while I agree mistakes can be made, in this case, it was either made TWICE on the same book, if it is trimmed. But I dont think it is, so hence the mistake was made once saying it was trimmed. Whether it was one mistake or two. The problem is how Dan was treated, the fact that CGC has no established practice/protocol for dealing with mistakes, and that they are able to dismiss or impose things on their customers who have no choice but to accept it. So had Dan's book come back at say 6.5 with a blue label would we be calling it a mistake or just good fortune? How many books have been resubmitted and gotten higher grades? Do we hear about those? I'm not trying to be smart, I'm being sincere. Do we ever hear about books being re-submitted that come back at a higher grade? And I'm not referring to those that get pressed or dry cleaned. Yes we do. In fact, the OP's 'business model' revolves entirely around doing exactly that. And that's in no way a judgement. So you're telling me that the OP's business is cracking open slabbed books and resubmitting them for higher grades without pressing or cleaning? And this is advertised? I'm not telling you. The OP is telling you. Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time Dan Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes. How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company? My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this. I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT. This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us! Ive always been honest about it, and never tried to hide it (thumbs u As I said...'And that's in no way a judgement.' I know Well this thread could have been three pages if it weren't for kav! Not judging you either Dan, I'm now up to speed. I still believe strongly in CGC and that what ever the outcome is we should support them. Give them as much feedback and information necessary to make the grading process more reliable and honourable. Most of all help to build credibility to the hobby!

It was blue twice, so while I agree mistakes can be made, in this case, it was either made TWICE on the same book, if it is trimmed. But I dont think it is, so hence the mistake was made once saying it was trimmed. Whether it was one mistake or two. The problem is how Dan was treated, the fact that CGC has no established practice/protocol for dealing with mistakes, and that they are able to dismiss or impose things on their customers who have no choice but to accept it. So had Dan's book come back at say 6.5 with a blue label would we be calling it a mistake or just good fortune? How many books have been resubmitted and gotten higher grades? Do we hear about those? I'm not trying to be smart, I'm being sincere. Do we ever hear about books being re-submitted that come back at a higher grade? And I'm not referring to those that get pressed or dry cleaned. Yes we do. In fact, the OP's 'business model' revolves entirely around doing exactly that. And that's in no way a judgement. So you're telling me that the OP's business is cracking open slabbed books and resubmitting them for higher grades without pressing or cleaning? And this is advertised? I'm not telling you. The OP is telling you. Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time Dan Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes. How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company? My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this. I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT. This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us! Ive always been honest about it, and never tried to hide it Sorry, Dan. Having to read a lot of the...ahem 'kav' dribble on here I think I missed that. So when I responded to FT's post I was making the same comment. The grade is variable, the colour of label is not!

I can agree! But one question I would like answered: WHY? Why would you de-slab a book and then resubmit it? Because CGC are inconsistent and you're hoping for a grade bump...or as in this case, a designation bump. There are a lot of people who play this game. Why? Because CGC are inconsistent. You can't call CGC inconsistent for an error in judgement. I am a professional in my line of work but I too make mistakes, that doesn't make me inconsistent. Not every book that comes off a press is the same, nor is every person's impression of a books grade. If everyone had the same opinion of everything what a very strange world this would be. But I guess the fact that my opinion of this "error in judgement" differs from yours is proof positive that would never happen. If there are enough 'errors of judgement', a pattern is produced and it is called inconsistency. There are enough 'errors of judgement' with CGC for people to use the crack and resub game to make good coin. I would respectfully suggest that's a pattern. I'm an estimator in the construction industry. My job is all about details and counting, measuring and counting again. I can take off a job three times and come up with three different prices. It doesn't mean I've made an error in judgement, it's called a variance. Getting a differing opinion of a grade is a variance. Getting a blue label and a purple label in this case would be an error in judgement. If everything were absolute then grading a book would not require three people (or 12 in this case?) one would suffice.

It was blue twice, so while I agree mistakes can be made, in this case, it was either made TWICE on the same book, if it is trimmed. But I dont think it is, so hence the mistake was made once saying it was trimmed. Whether it was one mistake or two. The problem is how Dan was treated, the fact that CGC has no established practice/protocol for dealing with mistakes, and that they are able to dismiss or impose things on their customers who have no choice but to accept it. So had Dan's book come back at say 6.5 with a blue label would we be calling it a mistake or just good fortune? How many books have been resubmitted and gotten higher grades? Do we hear about those? I'm not trying to be smart, I'm being sincere. Do we ever hear about books being re-submitted that come back at a higher grade? And I'm not referring to those that get pressed or dry cleaned. Yes we do. In fact, the OP's 'business model' revolves entirely around doing exactly that. And that's in no way a judgement. So you're telling me that the OP's business is cracking open slabbed books and resubmitting them for higher grades without pressing or cleaning? And this is advertised?

It was blue twice, so while I agree mistakes can be made, in this case, it was either made TWICE on the same book, if it is trimmed. But I dont think it is, so hence the mistake was made once saying it was trimmed. Whether it was one mistake or two. The problem is how Dan was treated, the fact that CGC has no established practice/protocol for dealing with mistakes, and that they are able to dismiss or impose things on their customers who have no choice but to accept it. So had Dan's book come back at say 6.5 with a blue label would we be calling it a mistake or just good fortune? How many books have been resubmitted and gotten higher grades? Do we hear about those? I'm not trying to be smart, I'm being sincere. Do we ever hear about books being re-submitted that come back at a higher grade? And I'm not referring to those that get pressed or dry cleaned. When I originally cracked the 6.0 Blue - I thought it was at least a 6.5. As it turns out it got a 7.0. I don't know what happened to the book after I sold it in the Purple slab. Perhaps it got a little damaged when the new owner took it out of the slab, maybe a dinged corner in shipment to Florida Except for that crease, it was a beautiful book. The person I bought it from is SUPER pickey about his books, so that just confirmed my opinion Dan, did you have the book when it was raw, or did you acquire it slabbed?

I can agree! But one question I would like answered: WHY? Why would you de-slab a book and then resubmit it? Because CGC are inconsistent and you're hoping for a grade bump...or as in this case, a designation bump. There are a lot of people who play this game. Why? Because CGC are inconsistent. You can't call CGC inconsistent for an error in judgement. I am a professional in my line of work but I too make mistakes, that doesn't make me inconsistent. Not every book that comes off a press is the same, nor is every person's impression of a books grade. If everyone had the same opinion of everything what a very strange world this would be. But I guess the fact that my opinion of this "error in judgement" differs from yours is proof positive that would never happen.

It was blue twice, so while I agree mistakes can be made, in this case, it was either made TWICE on the same book, if it is trimmed. But I dont think it is, so hence the mistake was made once saying it was trimmed. Whether it was one mistake or two. The problem is how Dan was treated, the fact that CGC has no established practice/protocol for dealing with mistakes, and that they are able to dismiss or impose things on their customers who have no choice but to accept it. So had Dan's book come back at say 6.5 with a blue label would we be calling it a mistake or just good fortune? How many books have been resubmitted and gotten higher grades? Do we hear about those? I'm not trying to be smart, I'm being sincere. Do we ever hear about books being re-submitted that come back at a higher grade? And I'm not referring to those that get pressed or dry cleaned.

You are taking isolated incidents and extrapolating them like it's common place. It isn't. I made a living fixing Benz's for the last 11 years of that career and yet they are regarded as awesome cars. Why? Because they're perfect? If they were perfect they wouldn't have 10 or 15 dealerships in Southern Ontario to repair them. Isolated incident card played.... So why was the book ever de-slabbed and resubmitted in the first place? What is the reason for doing something like that? Because they didn't believe it to be trimmed. That was the Purple label resubmit. But why go through the bother of cracking open a blue label, not get it signed, not have it pressed, just resubmit it hoping to get a higher grade? You know anywhere else something similar to this would be looked upon as karma? I'm frustrated with the whole notion of people submitting books and expecting, in this case it sounds like 12 different people to come up with the same response/grade? If the book had come back with a higher grade and a blue label do you think we would have the same thread count?

I can agree! But one question I would like answered: WHY? Why would you de-slab a book and then resubmit it?

You are taking isolated incidents and extrapolating them like it's common place. It isn't. I made a living fixing Benz's for the last 11 years of that career and yet they are regarded as awesome cars. Why? Because they're perfect? If they were perfect they wouldn't have 10 or 15 dealerships in Southern Ontario to repair them. Isolated incident card played.... So why was the book ever de-slabbed and resubmitted in the first place? What is the reason for doing something like that?

Does kav have: a). a real job? b). no job? c). this......as a job? d). a real life? e). no life? f). to give up a life? g). a lot of time on his hands? h). too much time on his hands? i). a lot of posts? j). too many posts? k). to give up his posts? l). to get his own private thread so he can post to himself?

Is it Friday yet?

Well said comicwiz!

The problem is that we have put too much expectation on CGC for something that is not an exact science as Liam stated previously. It is easy for us to make accusations with respect to CGC accuracy and consistency because we are not the ones reviewing the books and applying the grades and notes. As an active participant on the PGM thread in these forums I can tell you that I have looked at the same books in the thread and graded them and then re-graded them three some times even four times and come up with different grades. This is most frequent in the mid grades 4.5 to 9.0. I purposely try and re-grade books that I have looked at previously to try and hone my accuracy and believe me it is not easy. And yes grading from a scan is not always accurate it's just fun, but it proves a point that we are all just human. If there was a simple solution to this whole fiasco I am sure that CGC would or will try and come up with one but in the greater picture I believe that grading books is an art and not without it's faults. And to cast doubt or blame on any one at CGC or all of CGC for that matter, for their work is unfair. The fact that they have issued a statement is proof positive that they are aware of the problem(s) and that with time and effort will hopefully try and correct or at least minimize the problems. I think now is the time to get behind CGC and give them our support to try and move forward with creating a more stable and accurate grading and restoration detection systems. Provide them with more feedback if necessary and with that feedback give them the opportunity and guidance to move in the right direction. We have to believe!

No, just 300 posts a day bias. For some concrete data: Last week Kav had 349 posts. Next closest person surprisingly wasn't Slym and only came in at 177. Some guy named timern- coiny I presume… http://boardreader.com/site/www_collectors_society_com_17426.html Hey, don't drag me into this…pleeease!!! Oh wow you're not a coiny. I recognize the avatar and the sig but I didn't recognize the name. My fault. And I was only trying to illustrate how much Kav posts. Sorry to call you out. Aaaahgg, I've been outed!!!