500Club

1 hour ago, paul747 said:

JohnJacksonMiller-migratio

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Posted March 2, 2012

Note as well that the Diamond figure is probably going to be only 80-85% of the overall circulation. The drilldowns for Spider-Man, for example, include another 10,000 or so subscribers and an additional 10,000 or so copies sold on newsstands.

 

 This is a reasonable quote. from someone that's in touch with the business.   i would bet many print runs are not much over 20 percent of final order cutoff. just a guess sue me !

It is reasonable.  It also helps to illustrate how tough this proposition is.

Since the quote, newsstand sales no longer exist.  So now, we have a cut point where the actual number changes.  Any guess using Comichron has to take that into account.  In addition, the rise in popularity of comic properties worldwide has likely affected international orders and sales.  Take the orders for Aero's debut in Agents of Atlas, for example.  I think the one Phillipino shop ordered very large on the book, enough to skew percentages.

It really is a guessing game, and the unknown part of the print run varies from book to book, and pre and post newsstand.

PS: Does anyone know if store variants are included in the Comichron numbers? Or, how about when Marvel double ships, as with the above mentioned Agents of Atlas? 

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

5 minutes ago, steveinthecity said:

I'm fine with 5% to account for shrink, but going back 5 or 10 years how would one arrive at a ballpark figure that included subs, newsstand, or any foreign distribution?   

Foreign distribution tops out at about 10%, newsstands probably less than that going back 10 years, but my data on that isn't as certain.  

I'm not sure you have ANY data.  All I've seen is a vague reference to 'some larger retailers' claiming the overprint is 5%.

15 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

For as hard as they are to find I don't see Marvel's Vampire variants from years ago
selling that well. I tried to make a set for awhile and gave up just I think much harder
then the circulation numbers suggest.

It’s going to be very interesting as the years go forward to see which, if any, of the themed monthly variants or B covers get any love.

On 5/18/2019 at 12:04 AM, 500Club said:

John Byrne’s back up story in Superman 9.

Which pairs well with Superman 2, a portrait of Luthor’s giant ego.

18 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Thoughts?  I readily admit I could be wrong about this.  

No, I agree with you.

Ideally, you’d see a low level of self reference and connectivity, on par with Marvel in the 60s.

4 hours ago, BlowUpTheMoon said:

5 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Mods have to approve your first post.

Whatdoyaknow?  This is true:  

 

So, you have to sit around and stu until you know if you are acceptable.

4 hours ago, delekkerste said:

5 hours ago, 500Club said:

Having set up with kimik over that time frame, I'll second his comments.   Somehow, new52 seemed to inspire a whole cohort of 20 and 30 something women to become customers at shows.  I'm not sure if it was solely new52, but it happened at that time.  I'd wonder if they migrated from the Anne Rice, Buffy, Hunger Games, Supernatural  etc  crowd.

C'mon guys.  What % of back issue sales, or sales of "keys" as Ryan is arguing, are made by female collectors, and does anybody really believe it spiked starting in 2010-11 because of New 52 to a level that would be germane to the current conversation?  Sadly, I doubt that data is out there, but, I bet if you actually looked at the hard numbers and not just anecdotes and viewpoints distorted by confirmation bias (go re-read your copy of Thinking in Bets ), that you'll find that this phenomenon does not actually exist.  

Don’t over think my post.  It’s just an observation we made, and it may not even extrapolate to the broader market.  I didn’t see a lot of key sales.  I saw a lot of favorite character, favorite cover, and recent back issue run buying.  For us, it was encouraging that the market could reach new customers.

Overall, in the context of this discussion, I think the only hope for more of this is advertising, visibility, and quality product.

32 minutes ago, kimik said:

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

2 hours ago, kimik said:

As I have posted in the other threads on this topic, in 2010-11 there was a huge entry of female collectors and younger collectors buying at shows. The difference is they primarily focus on keys and buy TPBs/collected editions for reading.

I call BS on this.  

Call BS if you like, but I have been selling at shows here in Alberta since university in 1998 and I can only tell you what I have seen over the years.

Having set up with kimik over that time frame, I'll second his comments.   Somehow, new52 seemed to inspire a whole cohort of 20 and 30 something women to become customers at shows.  I'm not sure if it was solely new52, but it happened at that time.  I'd wonder if they migrated from the Anne Rice, Buffy, Hunger Games, Supernatural  etc  crowd.

15 hours ago, maraxusofkeld said:

I think the Morrion New X-Men run is undervalued in general. There are many new X-Men/ mutants that appear that have been used in the subsequent years.

Yeah, I agree.  And, in regards to the OP, X-Men 134 isn't a 'key', per se, but as QQ continues to get used, it has the potential to become one.

4 minutes ago, valiantman said:

27 minutes ago, 500Club said:

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

1 hour ago, Second Blight said:

3 hours ago, maraxusofkeld said:

 I do think it is undervalued, but what may hurt the book is he is not on the cover. 

not being on a cover doesn't mean squat

Hulk #180 squat? 

JO 134 squat?

JO #134 would probably be squat if Darkseid appeared on the cover of JO #135 instead of not appearing on any cover for five months. 

Yeah, probably. 

To me, the take home message is:  there are no hard and fast rules.

Awesome post.  Thanks to the OP.

51 minutes ago, valiantman said:

1 hour ago, Second Blight said:

2 hours ago, maraxusofkeld said:

 I do think it is undervalued, but what may hurt the book is he is not on the cover. 

not being on a cover doesn't mean squat

Hulk #180 squat? 

JO 134 squat?

3 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

Here are just a few excerpts online that will help you understand Art Adams' influence on McFarlane, Lee & Liefeld. This is a VERY well known FACT, clouded by clueless readers who didnt collect during the 80s and do not know of the TREMENDOUS influence that Adams had on these artists. He is in no shape or form more popular than them. Its just sad that it got to the point where people nowadays are not even aware of this

I agree with the concept that AA was the first of the hyper realistic Image style artists.  Honestly, I remember the stir when AA first did Longshot, and I think if he could have held down a monthly assignment, he would have been huge.  In fact, there was still some hype later when he did FF 347-349.

For me, it's tough to say what influence he had.  Even if guys like Lee, Liefeld and McFarlane don't specifically voice it, they could very well have been subconsciously influenced.  Adams stuff was fantastic, as has been noted here.

3 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

Here are just a few excerpts online that will help you understand Art Adams' influence on McFarlane, Lee & Liefeld. This is a VERY well known FACT, clouded by clueless readers who didnt collect during the 80s and do not know of the TREMENDOUS influence that Adams had on these artists. He is in no shape or form more popular than them. Its just sad that it got to the point where people nowadays are not even aware of this

http://www.cbr.com/art-adams-longshot-image-is-something

 

 

The assertion that Adams influenced McFarlane is simply voiced as an opinion in the above piece.

The Image hallmarks are here, and Todd McFarlane -- though working on DC's "Infinity Inc." at the time, in a notably more formalistic style than he'd use when he came to Marvel -- and Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld must have been inspired by what Adams was doing on his "Longshot" pages, particularly his character designs and his figure drawing.

That’s early McFarlane.  There’s no AA influence in that.

3 hours ago, kimik said:

Why does everyone insist on claiming McFarlane copied Adams’ etyle? McFarlane’s Infinity Inc for DC was out several months before Longshot 1 debuted. It was a cruder version of his final style, but you can still see it there. Based on that, it would be more reasonable to argue that Adams copied/was influenced by McFarlane instead.

They entered the industry simultaneously.  I don’t think there’s any way McFarlane influenced Adams.  I also think it was indeed Byrne and Perez who were McFarlane’s main influences in his developmental years.  Later, early in their careers, would have been the earliest Adams could have influenced McFarlane.

10 hours ago, Logan510 said:

I don't understand how anyone can confuse Art Adams who knows how to draw..and McFarlane who does not.

Unless it's all the line work? But even then you have line work placed by a hand that understands what he's doing vs superfluous lines that give the appearance of detail.

You got it.  Same went for Liefeld.

I confess, I loved McFarlane's art.  It was the dynamicism that made it great, though.  Adams was far better with the technicals.

7 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Bob Harras was never very creative. Sorry Bob.

Al Milgrom didn’t like him, either. 

2 hours ago, divad said:

6 hours ago, RonS2112 said:

The new problem I'm seeing is that some sellers are starting to demand slabbed prices for raw books.  "Well it could sell for X more dollars, so that's what I'm going to charge."  Likewise for potential key issues -- because a book could figure into the MCU, charge more now, because the book could appreciate years from now.  Have actually run into this thinking at my LCS.

This is not a problem. This is short-sightedness and frankly, the sense of entitlement on the buyer's side. The only case in which this may be appropriate is when the seller does it on a brand-spanking new book right off the presses. If this is what you are referring to, my apologies. A smart seller should be rewarded for his (or her) efforts.

It’s a problem in proportion to the seller’s inability to grade.  I know you get some stick for your grading, but it’s small potatoes compared to some people’s grading.

10 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

I know some dislike Divad's boasting and grading tactics. But if you go past that you do, on occasion, get a reflection of books that are desired by collectors which are not necessarily key or hyped. 

divad's grading is often off a bit, but it's not off by as much as many eBay sellers'.  Also, he does post a big scan...

1 hour ago, divad said:

 

No one's ever accused me of undercutting the market . . .

 

I find you innocent of charges...

14 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

So we bleed the buyer instead? That logic makes no sense. 

That whole viewpoint of undercutting the market is ridiculous. Its a free market for a reason.

 

Yup, and if the market is organically strong, one underpriced copy will be sucked up immediately, with no real effect on prevailing price.

5 hours ago, jcjames said:

That bear musta tore the corner too!

 

Not consistent with 9.4...

31 minutes ago, Raze said:

Glad to see your back @kav !

This is either grammatically incorrect, or very disturbing.