500Club

On 12/7/2022 at 12:12 PM, Corona smith said:

Just because a grading company changes a description of an appearance on one of their   labels doesn’t dictate which book is more valuable. A lot a collectors don’t pay attention to what the grading companies say on their labels. We actually read the books and make that determination ourselves. I also want to point out that this thread is about MODERN COMICS HEATING UP ON EBAY.

Slow your roll.  This debate is just enjoying a cameo appearance here. 

On 12/7/2022 at 11:46 AM, PeterPark said:

I am not sure why you would say that. Prices are subject to supply and demand and the demand part would very clearly involve what kind of appearance it is. I read it as the type of appearance, as determined by the market, will affect demand and thus, price. Ergo, the market will decided what kind of appearance it is.

Closer.  Maybe I wasn’t clear enough.  I’m really just trying to say that overall, the market doesn’t necessarily value the literal first appearance as the most valuable.  Other factors come into play.  That’s where the economics of demand come into play. 

But the reverse is true, too.  A book may be deemed the most important or valuable, but that doesn’t change the truth of what type of appearance it is.

Value <> type of appearance

On 12/7/2022 at 11:19 AM, catch21 said:

I do not know what econonimics class you went to.  I was taught  market is how much an asset can be sold or bought. It does not determine the type of appearance.  I am still waiting for that example where the value of book changed the type of appearance.

Really?  That’s what you took from my posts???  You better reread my posts.  I’m saying the exact opposite of what you posted:

On 12/6/2022 at 7:49 PM, 500Club said:

I agree that that doesn’t redefine what are truths, though.  A literal first appearance is a literal first appearance.  Period.

What I said after that is that the market doesn’t assign value based on those truths.  You want examples?  Hulk 180/181 is the easiest.  No one debates the truth that 180 is a literal first appearance.  But that fact doesn’t cause the market to necessarily value the book as the most valuable.  Clearer?

On 12/6/2022 at 9:11 PM, divad said:

You hear that 500Club, I wouldn't take that standing up! 

Why I oughta… 

On 12/6/2022 at 8:17 PM, catch21 said:

On 12/6/2022 at 7:49 PM, 500Club said:

The market sides with wallets is a reflection of what the overall market desires.  People collectively end up paying more for what is most important and desirable to them.  Each individual collector gets a ‘vote’.  What you end up with is the book the market decides is the key book.

I agree that that doesn’t redefine what are truths, though.  A literal first appearance is a literal first appearance.  Period.  But the literal truth doesn’t define value, either.   Hence the fact there are many examples where literal first appearances aren’t valued as highly as a subsequent appearance.

No that's not happens in comic collecting with graded books. You are making general statements without examples.

Sure it does.  It’s basic economics.  EVERY book is subject to these market forces. 

On 12/6/2022 at 5:21 PM, MrWeen said:

The problem is that there are many examples.  I don't disagree that the market sides with wallets either and we all want money.  But the value someone places on something doesn't make it a truth.

The market sides with wallets is a reflection of what the overall market desires.  People collectively end up paying more for what is most important and desirable to them.  Each individual collector gets a ‘vote’.  What you end up with is the book the market decides is the key book.

I agree that that doesn’t redefine what are truths, though.  A literal first appearance is a literal first appearance.  Period.  But the literal truth doesn’t define value, either.   Hence the fact there are many examples where literal first appearances aren’t valued as highly as a subsequent appearance.

On 12/6/2022 at 4:46 PM, catch21 said:

No, I am saying using "cameo" as a verbal shortcut  for "1st appearance in cameo" confuses people. It is not widely understood. So far we had two people in this comic book thread define the dictionary version of cameo. None of the grading companies use or say the shortcut incorrectly in their labels.

For those of us long term collectors, it IS widely understood.

It’s also not hard to understand.  It was no problem for me as a beginning collector at age 11 to pick up the terminology.

On 12/6/2022 at 2:25 PM, MrWeen said:

On 12/5/2022 at 5:43 PM, 500Club said:

No kidding.  Good luck changing several decades of comic hobby terminology.

Might as well offer up an angry diatribe about why people without a same parent shouldn’t call each other ‘bro’.

This definition  originally comes from Overstreet editions that are quite old.

Oh, for sure.  But the colloquial use of ‘cameo’ to mean a minor first appearance has persisted, and is widely used and understood.  And, to @catch21s point, it serves as the verbal shortcut of ‘first appearance in cameo’.

On 12/6/2022 at 2:25 PM, MrWeen said:

I would argue that the cameo is far more important as a first cover most first fulls aka 2nd firsts.

To each his own.  The market then collectively votes with wallets.

On 12/5/2022 at 8:14 PM, Lazyboy said:

The people who started using it incorrectly decades ago stopped doing so (at least mostly) years ago. If they can change, nobody else has any excuse to not do the same

It entered the lexicon long ago, and I still find the comic hobby use of ‘cameo’ in wide use today at shows and among collectors. 

To me, the term and debating it really comes a distant second to trying to figure out how the market determines sometimes what the money book is when a new character is introduced.

On 12/5/2022 at 4:16 PM, Juno Beach said:

On 12/5/2022 at 1:46 AM, Corona smith said:

I consider multiple panels a first full, a name isn’t necessary for me.  I also wish people would stop using the word cameo and use the proper term of brief when describing a short few panel appearance. A cameo is when a character makes an appearance in another characters book. 

While I might agree with you this is not how it is used in comics.

No kidding.  Good luck changing several decades of comic hobby terminology.

Might as well offer up an angry diatribe about why people without a same parent shouldn’t call each other ‘bro’.

Wolfman and Perez captured a magical blend of writing and art, that, if duplicated, might make this successful.  But, of course, the duplicating is the hard part.  And, the fact that back in 1980, we cared about the writing and art.  I’m not sure enough people actually read the books anymore…

On 10/6/2022 at 8:42 PM, Lazyboy said:

On 10/5/2022 at 1:39 PM, 500Club said:

Does anyone know if the newsstand copies of this book ALL had a Marvel subscription insert?

I subbed some and was surprised to see all four come back green label, with ‘subscription insert missing’ on the notation.  To my recall, I bought these myself off the newsstand, selecting for condition, and bagged them and filed them.  I would never remove an insert, and I can’t see an insert being taken out systematically prior to getting to the spinner rack. 

Mine does, but it's virtually guaranteed that not all copies did, even if they were meant to (and I'm not sure about that). It also has the personalized X-Men comic centerfold insert. Why doesn't CGC note that if inserts are so important?

Wondering if they were inserted only in a smattering of the copies, like MJ inserts, or in all.  I’m going to need to do some research.

Any newsstand collectors out there who can check their copies, and other Marvel books from the same month?

Does anyone know if the newsstand copies of this book ALL had a Marvel subscription insert?

I subbed some and was surprised to see all four come back green label, with ‘subscription insert missing’ on the notation.  To my recall, I bought these myself off the newsstand, selecting for condition, and bagged them and filed them.  I would never remove an insert, and I can’t see an insert being taken out systematically prior to getting to the spinner rack. 

On 7/13/2022 at 5:40 PM, CheeseFrog said:

On 7/13/2022 at 2:01 PM, Tnexus said:

I hate to disappoint everyone, but these are not Mando's and Grogu's 1st comic app. This is:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Wars-Mandalorian-Season-Graphic/dp/1804910473/

I’ve seen this debated a number of times.  

Yup, and wallets right now are saying, not interested.

Down the road, though, it could be a key collectible for collectors who like ancillary items with their standard format comics.

On 7/2/2022 at 2:22 PM, D2 said:

I went heavy on the Sex Criminals, East of West, Black Science, Descender, Wytches, Saga, Wicked + Divine, Fatale, Rat Queens… etc etc train. 
Basically anything 2013-2016, image, Indy, and went heavy. It’s all garbage basically. 
Still like Saga, and not to knock any of the reads above, all good stuff… but spec wise, a waste of money

Saga wasn’t a spec failure.  It may have slowed, but there was plenty of time where early issues sold very well.

On 7/5/2022 at 10:56 PM, gradejunky said:

Did you ever think Disney would be making Alien comics/movies/tv shows?  I didn't.  Disney has made Disney movies for 60+ years and they were pretty good at it because, well, they were the only people making Disney movies.  Now they want to make horror and sci fi material!?!

It’ll really depend on the creative talent they put in charge… 

On 7/5/2022 at 12:04 PM, awakeintheashes said:

IIRC, 1st appearance of the Nameless/Leveler 

I think they will get more of a backstory in phase II as well.

It’s actually in Trail of Shadows 5.  The 1:25 is a first cover, too.

It then appears as a hallucination in HR 15, and then they visit the planet of the Nameless in EotS 2.

’Leveler’ is just a description that Ro uses for the one Nameless he has and uses against the Jedi.

Confusing as hell, but ultimately I think the market will identify ToS properly. 

What’s the deal with SWadv 6B?

On 7/5/2022 at 12:05 PM, Second Blight said:

You still dont have facts...

All listed above. 
 

Got any facts to refute them?  Didn’t think so.

This is the ‘Moderns Heating Up’ thread.  Batman 125, right now, is heating up.  Will it stay that way?  Tough to say.  Will Zdarsky have a six issue, or six year run on Batman?  Will Failsafe be a one off, or recurring character?  All tough to say.  But as it stands right now, a guy who preordered Batman 125 cover M can gloat all he wants, and sell the book right now for a nice premium. 

On 7/5/2022 at 11:54 AM, Second Blight said:

 

I know the cover wasnt revealed before FOC.

Other than that, I see no other facts from you. Only the spin cycle to suit your agenda

Got sources ? Na, that would be too easy for you.

No agenda there.  Just facts.

Your dismissive monopolyjackoff persona may play on Comics Heating Up, but over here, you might want to bring some facts of your own. 

On 7/5/2022 at 11:41 AM, Second Blight said:

Sure things are better than acting like you know what you're talking about and claiming it as facts

Here are the facts:  DC offered an ‘M’ cover solicited as ‘Failsafe reveal cover’.  No cover image was released prior to FOC.  From those facts, you had to decide to speculate on cover M or not. 

Here are more facts:  Many LCS’s tend to stick with cover A, and or a few of the open order variants.  Most LCS’s aren’t going to gamble on a cover M with no image available.

Here are the results:  LCS’s are complaining about the cover image being released after FOC.  The book was under ordered and is selling for a premium.

Read ‘em and weep, Mr smh

On 7/4/2022 at 10:22 PM, CheeseFrog said:

EYE 2

Why?

I like Eye 1.  Ro’s elders figure to be players in phase II.

On 7/5/2022 at 10:59 AM, Second Blight said:

With a 1:500 variant and a retailer preview, stores ordered plenty.

No.  They ordered plenty of Batman 125, but not necessarily plenty of cover M, because DC was dumb, and didn’t release the cover image.  At best, stores that chased the 1:500 chopped their order equally among the zillion open order covers.  More likely, they went 60-80% cover A, and tossed in a few of each of the alternate covers.

On 6/23/2022 at 2:22 AM, Microchip said:

Paging @valiantman 

https://deadline.com/2022/02/wes-ball-harbinger-paramount-1234931950/

 

Please, God… let this Valiant adaptation be of quality [!]praying emoji[/!]

If it’s only on the last page, it’s probably just a cameo.  If there’s any on the cover, though, it could be called a first full appearance.