Dr Chaos

While this drama may have been entertaining to some of you this was and continues to be a private matter between me and the buyer. He was wrong to bring our private business into this public forum...

 

Wasn't this a transaction initiated on these boards, through a sales thread?

 

When you use this forum ( which is free ) as a means to profit, you open yourself up to all sorts of things, like the probation list, and the guidelines for buying and selling, and (most of all) public scrutiny.

 

 

I am asking you to respect that privacy.

 

I am asking you to realize how silly it is to use this forum for personal gain and then flip the switch to "it's all personal" when the heat gets turned up.

 

I suggest you utilize another forum to sell your wares if the way business is conducted here doesn't meet with your minimum privacy standards.

 

Thanks.

I mistakenly thought that we had finished the discussion and it was agreed that the buyer did not have a legitimate complaint. If that were so the statements you quoted would have made more sense. It seems they were premature.

I think we have beaten this horse to death.

 

I want to thank everyone that participated in the dicussion for their feedback. I have learned a lot from you that will help me to be a better seller going forward.

 

The transaction was flawed. Mistakes were made by both the buyer and the seller. I took the time to hear out the seller and made the determination to provide him a partial refund based upon my observations and the communication from the seller. Right or wrong I made a judgement call and I will stand by it.

 

Now that I have had a chance to present the other side of the story and all of the facts are available it is clear to see that I acted in good faith and tried to work with the buyer towards a mutually acceptable solution and that a meeting of the minds was not just not going to happen. While every seller should try to keep their buyers happy I reserve the right to kick unruly customers out of my online store.

 

While this drama may have been entertaining to some of you this was and continues to be a private matter between me and the buyer. He was wrong to bring our private business into this public forum and he was wrong to attempt to drag my name through the mud. I am asking you to respect that privacy.

 

The buyer was perfectly within his rights to bring this to the attention of the forum. He was not satisfied with your solution.

 

He did not want to keep it private because you two could obviously not agree.

 

I'm a little confused about your definition of "good faith" and the double negative that follows, however I do understand that you are upset.

 

I hope perhaps you think about this a little more and revise your thoughts about a refund policy..

 

 

Dr Chaos, I honestly think you're nuts.

 

I I want to buy from a seller who can't grade, blames the buyer and refuses to consider logical possibilities like shipping damage, doesn't want the dispute revealed to the community and has no return policy......you're my man.

 

Your reputation all over a $20 deal.

Is that what your think?

I never said that I would not take returns. However, I did state that I am not sure that I can trust this buyer to take a return from him at this point. Whether it was construed differently I made another statement that I never had made any previous claims in my ads about returns (pro or con).

When I first heard the buyer's complaint I asked him how I could make things right and it was he who said that he did not want to return the books. He prefered to receive a partial refund instead (and to complain at great length).

Given that I tried to work with the guy, spent some time hearing him out, and made a partial refund, I was disappointed that he came here to whine about it. I also felt that under the circumstances that further compensation may not have been warranted.

In my initial response to the buyer one of the first questions I asked him was if he thought the book could have been damaged during shipping. So yes, the thought had crossed my mind.

During my discussions with the buyer, I grew to mistrust him with each post. Despite this I continued to communicate with him and attempted to come to an amicable resolution without making any accusations prior to his comments on this thread without any warning from him.

Although he promised (and did not deliver) additional scans, the flaws in the scans that you see in this thread do not include most of the flaws that he reported to me.

Aside from both books sharing a bad and board (which really should do nothing to subject them to harm) there was nothing wrong with the way they were packed. I used thick cardboard to make a sandwich around them and bubble wrap to protect the sandwich with foam to fill in the empty spaces in the box. Yet, the buyer claimed that I only used cardboard and newspaper (and recanted this account when confronted by someone else). He has still not explained what specifically went wrong during the shipment or with the packing that may have caused the books to be subjected to harm.

None of you has accepted my offer to see the full PM exchange for yourselves yet many of you are eager to accept his story at face value. The details he has provided are sparce. If the books were damaged during shipping it would be nice to know what he observed when he opened the box (or if the box itself was damaged by the USPS in transit).

When I first heard his initial complaint I was eager to help him and was beating myself up over mistakes I might have made. After reading through his rambling and sometimes off topic tirades during the PM exchange I had serious doubts about what his motives might have been from the beginning. In short I felt that I was being manipulated and lost patience with the buyer. Despite this I felt that I should give him something because of the ridiculous 9.8 exchange and followed through with that.

For this I get burned at the stake.

I edited my last post.

It seems my attempt to address a couple of the points made in this thread missed the mark.

I think we have beaten this horse to death.

I want to thank everyone that participated in the dicussion for their feedback. I have learned a lot from you that will help me to be a better seller going forward.

The transaction was flawed. Mistakes were made by both the buyer and the seller. I took the time to hear out the seller and made the determination to provide him a partial refund based upon my observations and the communication from the seller. Right or wrong I made a judgement call and I will stand by it.

Now that I have had a chance to present the other side of the story and all of the facts are available it is clear to see that I acted in good faith and tried to work with the buyer towards a mutually acceptable solution and that a meeting of the minds was not just not going to happen. While every seller should try to keep their buyers happy I reserve the right to kick unruly customers out of my online store.

While this drama may have been entertaining to some of you this was and continues to be a private matter between me and the buyer. He was wrong to bring our private business into this public forum and he was wrong to attempt to drag my name through the mud. I am asking you to respect that privacy.

If you aren't sure of your own grading skills, you should have told the buyer that the books were NM or better, but you couldn't guarantee anything above that. You would probably have lost the sale seeing that he was specifically looking for 9.8 copies, but, on the other hand, you wouldn't be in the middle of this mess either.

 

Saying that the buyer switched books is a pretty serious accusation around here - I would suggest that you show evidence to prove this :thumbsup:

I have already admitted that going down the is this a 9.8? road was a bad idea and said that I don't plan on doing so in the future. This is also the reason that I gave the buyer a partial refund.

I included my pictures of the books a few pages back. The scans supplied by the buyer including the book I believe to be switched have been removed from the internet by the buyer. He can post them here if he wants to prove my point.

People who think I messed up by not giving the buyer the $9 he asked for instead of $3 are missing the point. There was no pleasing him. He insisted on being petty about this and if I had given him $9 he would have been on here complaining that I did not give him more.

If anyone really wants to read the complete PM exchange I can send it, I think it presents the buyer in his true light.

For the record, medusanyc failed to notify me before posting his complaint in this thread.

2) Notification on the Probation Discussion Thread

a) After the 30 Day Rule is fulfilled, the accuser will send a PM to the accused informing them the issue is being submitted to the Probation Discussion Thread for their inclusion in the PL. This should be a new PM and not part of an existing PM chain.

Abuse? The guy had a problem and seemed to try to deal with it in a private matter.

 

Did he switch books? Who knows. It's $6 bucks.

 

I have messed up before on the boards and i gave a full refund and walked away and the person bought from me at a later date and time without a issue. I learned to tighten up my grading. And stay in constant communication with the buyer.

 

I would like to think I learned from any mistakes I might have made but there is no way I am willing to sell to this buyer again.

You realize that this is all over a $6.00 difference in a refund? On the chance that you are wrong, wouldn't it be easier to just give him the $6.00? A little bit of kindness in a transaction can go a long way.

 

What disturbs me, and I'm sure other people here as well, is your statement about the book being worth more somewhere else. That is not relevant at all, this is where you sold it. Lots of people, (including myself) sell things here on a regular basis for less than we might get on eBay. The premise for me is, there are no fees here, and the transactions are less worrisome. That's the joy of this marketplace.

 

 

 

The buyer got the books that were advertised. His problem was that "I told him the books were 9.8s and they were not 9.8s". If he asked to return the books and I said no perhaps I would have been unreasonable. After all his complaints he still wanted the books. Since he wanted to keep the books the value of the books was relevant.

 

Chew 17 and 18 in worse condition than these were going on ebay for $11-12 each. After the partial refund I gave out I got a whopping $13 for both books. Had I given him another $6 I would have gotten $7 for both.

 

While my first instinct throughout this whole process was to please the customer it did not take me long to realize that I was either dealing with a crazy person or a dishonest one. Could I have given up more? Yes Should I have given up more? Maybe Would doing so have made anything better? In this case I really don't think so.

 

Would you be willing to compromise, take the books back and if you think you did make a mistake, refund the shipping?

I was willing to and did make a compromise.

A return would have been accepted earlier but I think that ship has sailed now.

The moderators will not answer you here, it's not their job to watch over transactions, if you read the rules, it says that, clearly.

 

Ok, thanks for the info.

Nice books. So why do you think there could be no flaws due to shipment?

 

And I believe the entire conversation was that he'd be out half his money if he returned the books anyway. Working out a partial refund on low dollar books (or in my case high postage costs) makes sense usually.

Thirteen packages sent to thirteen different buyers without damage to the books inside. Instead I received kudos like:

Great communication. Great packaging. Comic arrived just as described. Would definitely recommend and do business with again.

Great guy to deal with. Excellent communication. Great shipping. Great comics. Highly recommended, will buy from again!

deleted

You realize that this is all over a $6.00 difference in a refund? On the chance that you are wrong, wouldn't it be easier to just give him the $6.00? A little bit of kindness in a transaction can go a long way.

 

What disturbs me, and I'm sure other people here as well, is your statement about the book being worth more somewhere else. That is not relevant at all, this is where you sold it. Lots of people, (including myself) sell things here on a regular basis for less than we might get on eBay. The premise for me is, there are no fees here, and the transactions are less worrisome. That's the joy of this marketplace.

 

 

The buyer got the books that were advertised. His problem was that "I told him the books were 9.8s and they were not 9.8s". If he asked to return the books and I said no perhaps I would have been unreasonable. After all his complaints he still wanted the books. Since he wanted to keep the books the value of the books was relevant.

Chew 17 and 18 in worse condition than these were going on ebay for $11-12 each. After the partial refund I gave out I got a whopping $13 for both books. Had I given him another $6 I would have gotten $7 for both.

While my first instinct throughout this whole process was to please the customer it did not take me long to realize that I was either dealing with a crazy person or a dishonest one. Could I have given up more? Yes Should I have given up more? Maybe Would doing so have made anything better? In this case I really don't think so.

Hey, it wouldn't be the 1st time a book was switched. I'm not saying it happened but it certainly has before.

 

Post the pic from your sales thread and the pic he sent you after receiving it and let's see what it looks like.

 

On a side note, I'm not a modern guy but it seems like a VERY bad idea to even intimate that a book WILL get a 9.8 to a buyer who expressly wants a 9.8. Nobody can guarantee that. If they HAVE to have a 9.8, buy it slabbed otherwise go into it knowing there's at least a decent chance it isn't going to happen

My first instinct when the buyer asked me if the book was a 9.8 was to tell him to jump in a lake and as the whole thing unfolded I was kicking myself.

Here are the pictures of the books I sent:

Chew 17

front

back

Chew 18

front

back

The link the buyer attached for the book (Chew 17) received is no longer available but there the flaws in his picture were not there when I sent the book (and was not due to the packaging).

This was never about six dollars. It was extortion. If I gave him the nine dollars he asked for I think we would be having a conversation about how he deserved the rest of his money back too.

When I asked this guy how I could make things up to him his initial answer is "well I don't want to return the book I guess I am just stuck then". Then he comes back the next day, throws more insults at me, goes into an unjustified tirade about the packaging and asks for a partial refund for half of the purchase price.

As much as I felt like telling him to jump in a lake at that point I made a good faith effort and refunded him part of his purchase price. The buyer never wanted for or asked for a refund. He wanted the books and still does, he just didn't feel like paying for them.

Stating you think the buyer switched books is lame in my opinion.

I have pictures of the book that I sent.

They do not match the pictures of the book that the buyer sent to me.

The book did not leave my possession until I packed it securely and sent it.

The buyer presented no evidence to substantiate the possibility of the book having been damaged during shipping.

When I communicated with the buyer I kept my suspicions to myself and made no accusations. Instead I apologized to him, met his demand of a partial refund, and endured his rants.

If he wants to come out here and point fingers after all of that I am sorry but the gloves are off.

Someone please summarize!!!

 

1)

- medusanyc bought some raw Chew books from seller that were described as 9.8s

- seller sends books two-to-a-bag inside a box with no protection apart from some newspaper

- books arrive in less than 9.8 condition

 

2)

- medusanyc contacts seller, explains problems with condition & lack of proper packaging

- seller busts out the "I'm not a professional grader"-spiel with a side of "other people have sent me books packed this way" and, as a parting shot, the "even though the books are not as described, you still got a good deal compared to eBay prices"-non-apology.

 

3)

- medusanyc asks for a partial refund of $9

- seller claims that he's had enough of medusanyc's abuse, counters with a $3 refund and tells him he'd prefer not to deal with him again

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Seems about right. Why not just get a full refund and send the books back?

 

More confirmation for why I don't step in the 9.8 waters without a graded book in hand. So much hassle for so little reward.

 

if a full refund for return was offered i would have been all over it...

 

That is what I would push for, using this thread as justification.

 

Was the book graded properly, or damaged in handling? Either is a reason for asking for a refund, and the seller should guarantee their grading and shipping. So for either reason, the seller should make the deal good(give you what was promised, or your money back). Regards,

I greatly appreciate the PM I just received regarding this transaction.

First of all the PM exchange provided by the buyer is incomplete (I would be happy to provide the complete exchange to an administrator).

I have my own summary of what happened (I will try to keep it brief):

1. All books listed included a clear picture of the front and back of each book along with a price (no grades were included in the advertisement).

2. All books were modern books less than two years old that could be described as NM or better (with a couple possible exceptions not involved in this transaction).

3. Buyer asks if two of my books are 9.8s. Now keep in mind that these are all new unread books. I take them out of the bags and boards, look them over, note sharp corners, no spine ticks, and bright colors (they really are nice to look at). Instead of saying there are no flaws that I can see I said there were no flaws (I apologized for this and gave the buyer a partial refund at his reqest).

I told the buyer that the books look as good as the pictures. I also went on to state that I did not see why they could not make a 9.8 with the proviso that CGC can be unpredictable.

While I did miss a slight corner crease (did not break color) on the back of one book, the flaw was clearly visible in the pictures that I provided. The buyer either missed this flaw as well or never bothered to look at the pictures before making the purchase.

When the buyer reported that he was not satisfied with quality of the books received I asked him to provide pictures of the flaws he reported. Aside from the slight corner crease, his pictures of that book did not reveal spine ticks or the other flaws reported.

The pictures he provided of the other book did not match the pictures I took of the book before it was sent (he has already informed me that he had a lesser copy). Although I firmly believed that the buyer switched books I apologized to him and asked what I could do to make it up to him.

It was the buyer that asked for a partial refund instead of returning the book. Although he failed to mention this detail I did provide him a partial refund as requested.

4. The books were packed securely (I did put both books in the same bag and board but otherwise that packaging was bulletproof. During the last month I have sent out more than a dozen packages (each to a different buyer) with no complaints aside from this character. Not only that but most buyers have also complimented me through PMs and in my kudos thread.

5. The buyer was insulting and dismissive in his comments. Although I went along with it at the time I feel his request for 9.8s on raw books priced below ebay was unreasonable. Despite the assurance I gave him he still pushed for lower prices than those in my ad. Given the excessiveness of his complaints and the lack of evidence I now feel that his agenda was to use the partial refund request to hammer me down further on what was already a more than fair deal to him.

6. After the partial refund that he had requested was issued to him he came whining here instead to bringing it to my attention first.

This was not a perfect transaction and I learned from my mistakes but I provided the books pictured, I did a great job of packing them safely, and when asked by the buyer how I could make him happy I provided a partial refund as he requested even though I did not trust him enough to ever do business with him again.

If the buyer had provided more evidence of his claims I would have reviewed that evidence but he seemed more interested in complaining and insulting me that coming to an amicable resolution.

Someone sign me up for the Columbia Comics fan club and the weekly news letter.

Sold my ASM # 122 CGC 9.2 to Brock last week.

Payment was fast, communication was great, really cool guy to work with.

I look forward to doing business with Columbia Comics again in the future.

I saw copies like this with some minor tearing and lots of stress on the spine still going for 50-60 bucks! Back pre-Avengers this copy might be worth like 15? Hope that helps!

 

$50-60 bucks sounds good to me. Thanks!

I am not longer a member of the IM # 55 club.

Sold mine for a cool $50.

everyone. I thought I would share one of my best finds!

 

Finding the book is one thing. Finding it in nice condition like that is something else.

Really cool find.

I saw copies like this with some minor tearing and lots of stress on the spine still going for 50-60 bucks! Back pre-Avengers this copy might be worth like 15? Hope that helps!

$50-60 bucks sounds good to me. Thanks!

Guess its gonna be a while before this book cools off enough to touch

 

GPA for 2011 in 9.6 was a little over 700, last sale for 9.6 was almost 1800.....

Now if they would just make Avenger movies with Bishop I would be rolling in dough.

Iron Man #55 is going for big bucks in grade but I am not seeing many listings on ebay of elsewhere for a copy in the 2.5-3.0 range. What do you think mine is worth (scans below)?

Thanks!

Thought I would share my purchases from a local show I went to yesterday:

First lot was from the one dealer where I spent a third of the money I brought with me:

I bought these books from other dealers:

Here are the dollar books:

I also picked up a hardcover book:

Of course the real fun at this show is with the no reserve auctions:

This lot includes some early TOS, TTA, Hulk, and Thor books:

The next lot included five early Daredevil books:

The big lot included 40 books so I had to break it up into two pictures:

I won an odd lot that includes OSPG 5:

The final lot included two trade paperbacks:

The show went on until 4PM but it only took me until 2:30 to empty my wallet.

Count me in, I need to send my Primer # 2 to CGC but I am guessing about 9.0 raw.

If the books are expensive just pay a couple extra bucks and use a regular box or double box within a flate rate box.

 

For single slabs, I use a USPS 1092 box within a 1095 box. For two slabs, I put the 1092 inside a Medium flat rate box. Great protection and free from the USPS!

Great info, thanks!