Archon_Turtle

Did CGC believe it to be a 1st printing interior perhaps?

This would be my best guess.

CGC's logic does make sense. The interior is authentic and the cover is merely a copy. However they really need to spend a little more time identifying the appropriate printing and notating that on the label.

I agree with you now. I just didn't agree in the moment :-P

Although I think it's weird that they think there is only 1 "legitimate" counterfeit run out there.

Seems like sound advice. Not that I recall ever actually seeing one.

Can't tell how many there are. NG's don't show up on the census. If you check the number on this one via the site, it sends you to the first printing census page (which is scary), but it isn't listed.

Also, in regard to what they qualify as a COUNTERFEIT, Here's a conversation between myself and CGC after the coverswap book was graded.

AS A DISCLAIMER: This was right after I discovered the book wasn't going to get graded as a counterfeit (which is what I was shooting for). So I was a little miffed during this exchange.

I noticed that despite having been verified as a counterfeit book, it has been graded as coverless. How does it not meet the criteria for counterfeit? The book uses a non-first print interior with a reproduction of a first print cover. The reproduced cover was done so in a vintage time frame, and it was sold to the original owner under the pretense that it was a genuine #1. The book was DEFINITELY created with the intent to deceive. That qualifies as counterfeit in my book.

The counterfeit notation is used explicitly for the well documented counterfeit printing of the book. What you sent is not that actual counterfeit, this is the actual book inside and a photocopy cover then it is treated as a cover less. They are two totally different things.

Interesting. So there's really nothing stopping someone from buying a third print, tearing off the cover, subbing it to get this label, and selling the book as a coverless first print. Now we all have something else to look out for when buying first prints.

Indeed. I'd probably just avoid buying a coverless copy period.

A while back i had a cover swap with third print interior counterfeit graded just to see what would happen (truth be told I was hoping they would grade it counterfeit, and that is what I labeled it as on the submission)

They however... did something I did not expect.

As you can see, the book is NG and labeled Coverless appropriately...but there is no indication that it is not a first printing.

Since the topic came up, I thought I would do a quick tutorial about Kevin's signature.

The signatures Kevin uses usually depends on two things.

1) What he is signing.

2) How much time he has.

Each signature obviously varies by small degrees, but there are some basic ones.

There are 3 signatures he regularly uses currently.

1) Separated K - Less Hurried. Normally if you catch him walking down the street or at a small appearance, you'll see this. This was also much more common prior to the Nickelodeon buyout. Since then, his lines have grown in size exponentially.

2) Connected K - The "I have a huge line" signature. You see this a lot more since the relaunch of the Turtles. This signature also tends to be "fatter", and he will often stop at "East", though sometimes you still get the "n" at the end.

3) Full Name - Personal signature. This signature is really seldom used. He will use it on personal documents (signing Checks for example) or on something he deems really important to him. In this case he used it for a tattoo. These signatures look like he is signing "Kim" Eastman. Which is funny cause that is his fathers name.

Retired Signatures:

There are a few signatures that Kevin has used in the past that he has evolved out of.

"Sharp" Block Letter (Late 80's Early 90's) - This was a typical autograph signature for the period. Sometimes he would include the date, and sometimes include is middle initial. Like his modern signature, there is a slow and a fast version. The slower being the second photo.

Block Letter EASTMAN (80s/90s) - Mostly used as an art signature, you see this a lot on earlier published Turtles work

Stylized KBE (Early 80's) - Another art signature, though I've seen it done in letters to friends as well on occasion. The stylized KBE looks different on almost every piece. This was primarily used PRIOR to Mirage and the Turtles.

"BROOKS" (Early 80's) - While I don't have a piece within arms length to show right now, Kevin occasionally signed "BROOKS" very early on in his underground career. Brooks is his middle name.

I hope you found this post useful :-)

What I don't understand is why they'll slab Turtlemania books (which are also single color, xeroxed, hand stapled books) and not GGs.

 

Few years ago, Kevin look one of my pairs to the cgc table personally and they turned him down.

 

So Kevin handled your pair, showed them to cgc and they turned him down?

 

What kind of a sick attempted orgy was this?

Well he IS a close friend so...

What I don't understand is why they'll slab Turtlemania books (which are also single color, xeroxed, hand stapled books) and not GGs.

Few years ago, Kevin look one of my pairs to the cgc table personally and they turned him down.

Here's your chance to buy xerox copies of these books. I can't believe PGX would grade these if the front runner CGC wouldn't touch these with a 100 foot pole.

 

Ebay item number 290963948473

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290963948473?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_178wt_1170

 

It's at $2,025 and the reserve has not been met yet. A week ago this person wanted $24,000 for the pair. Maybe he wanted to know much people are willing to pay for xerox copies.

 

Personally, I remember a time that me and a few other TMNT fans were looking for these books, I mean books as in comic books. You know the ones that go thru a printing press and colors are added to the books. At the time TMNT #1 was going for $400 and Gobbledygook #1 and #2 were also $400 each. That must have been the mid 1990's. No one ever saw the Gobbledygooks, so no one, including myself, didn't know that they were produced by xerox copying them and then hand stapling them by hand. People thought they were actual comic books until 2004? that Mirage publishing came forward and told everyone that these were not printed the traditional way as all comic books were printed, but were photocopies and hand stapled.

 

I think the Gobbledygook #1 and #2 gained that high price because people thought they were actual comic books, so the price of these books stayed mostly consisted with the TMNT #1 issue first print. Price guides were also consisted with that as well. I don't know why price guides are listing these as comic books and keeping them in the price guides. Are there other photocopies of books being stapled together by hand in the price guides. If there are i would loike to know and just keep quite about Gobbledygook #1 and #2. To bad the artists didn't number them by hand and then signed them. That would have been better like what they did with the Turtlemania gold editions. You can't go wrong with that.

 

I'm not trying to bash these Gobbledygooks #1 and #2, and they do belong to be part of TMNT universe, but if CGC can't tell if a copy of Gobbledygook #1 or #2 was the actual photocopies that were produced in 1984, I think I will spend my money on something else, like a real comic book for now.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Sorry for the rant. I'm usually not like this.

Just though I'd note that just based on these photos, I'd wager they are authentic. The copier fade appears to be the the proper location, and in the proper tone that I would expect to see from a genuine set. Obviously photos are photos, so your mileage may vary. But they look good to me.

Since all my bros are in this thread, and these definitely relate to tmnt, I wanted to let you know that I'm letting go of my copies of Cerebus #1 and Visions #1 (First Flaming Carrot) as a pair:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6930654#Post6930654

I would recommend using a professional machine as well (fedex/kinkos, etc) I have an A3 as home scanner and I find the bulbs are never bright enough to actually scan through to the comic well.

I check these sites numerous times a day...but they are all generally pretty slow.

 

Just like turtles?

 

There's also this place - I think at least a couple guys on this thread contribute to this?

http://gogreenmachine.org/

 

Anyone know any more?

I technically own that site. I used to contribute to it heavily. But then my career and marriage happened. I still own it, but I have a small staff that keeps the lights on for me.

Hasn't GG1 gone for more than that in the past?

Yes. Although this copy has no documentation (despite, based on photos, I'm be confident in saying it's genuine). The copies that sell big are ones with significant documentation.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUGE-LOT-Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-Comic-Books-TMNT-1-Gobbledygook-1-MIRAGE-/190866623760?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2c70898d10

 

Anyone have $7500 I can borrow?

$7500 is actually a pretty good deal for that lot IMO.

Very nice Archon!!...Did those just come in? I am still anxiously waiting my FCBD book

Yup! They were fast tracked though.

Just a couple ops from FCBD:

A little surprised by the 8.5 until I noticed the misplaced staples were tearing the cover. Oh well. Nicest 8.5 ever.

Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird, Steve Lavigne

Eric Talbot

Newest addition to the collection. I don't often come across vintage appearances I don't own. So when I do, they must be mine!

Crossover: Savage Dragon / TMNT #1 Ash Can edition. Sadly, Mirage wasn't able to give me any numbers in regard to how many were printed, nor how they were distributed :-/

But still...

I know theres a place for wanting to buy stuff, but everyone I'm talking to is in this thread, soooo...

Just looking for a high grade (raw or graded) copy of #32 second printing. Like 9.4+?

Lemme know!

So happy I could rehome this to such a good home!

Ok, my fault. I should done more checking into before posting. I believed it was Gobbledygook #1 and #2 (1984) that CGC do not verify cause it was photocopied and stapled together with TMNT #1 sale ad on the back.

That is correct. They wouldnt even grade copies that Kevin hand delivered to the table.

That's such a great book to get in 9.8 with white pages. I'm just saddened that it's an SS because as you may already know, it won't truly be a 9.8 in another 10 years after that sig ink has stained the pages below. I've been hunting down a universal grade for a while for this book with that rating. Congrats though all the same. It's what matters to you that's important.

That looks great! Forgive me, but I don't know the artist. Who is it?

Nobody really knows as far as I'm aware. It was just some in-house production artist at Konami.

I have to agree that there are very few collectors who care much about the archie printings. I myself just made sure I had first printings of everything and called it a day.

So what do you guys think about getting encapsulated books signed on the outside case? I saw this in person and it looked really neat. Looks like the owner put it up on eBay so everyone can see what I was talking about

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140971330975?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

I personally think it is a cool idea. It looks really sharp, and if you do this to a regular blue label book....you can always just have it re-encapsulated w/ out the sigs if you ever wanted to see and the buyer didn't want them. It is also a good way to get the Mirage guys who don't do CGC shows

I think it's neat for sentimental value, but I wouldn't pay a premium for it.

I only have photos of the books you mention here.

I think Archon had Kevin do a sign similar to that too.

 

later we had proper COAs drafted though. Particularly because my #1 ended up being the only known error copy, and I wanted to make sure it's authenticity wasn't questioned due to the error.