InvstmntComcSuply

I agree that announced preemptive stall the thread. In addition to the lack of incentive to the offeror, many of those sitting on the sidelines will wait, rather than "rocking the boat". Especially if the preemptive poster is widely respected.

You are not limiting the involvement of new participants because the offering was not changed up. You are limiting the involvement of new participants because they see a risk in being chastised about offerings which are in line value wise with previous offers. There are checks in place to prevent junk from being offered. Let them function as designed. If thread stalling is the concern, then institute measures to speed up the process. Change the time limit to 48 hours before the automatic strike is imposed and 24 hours to open it up to those who have already used their monthly quota. Change the strike quantity to two. Personally, I don't think the former is necessary, but it seems clear that anyone getting two strikes isn't participating to give back to the community.

....let's adjust that budget to reflect a figure that probably does not include marketing spent ($255 MM). That was my point. It is not a valid comparison to include marketing expenses in the ASM2 budget and then compare it with other film budgets that do NOT include marketing expenses

MOS made money off promotions,.... Not relevant to the 225M MOS budget and 425M ASM budget posted in the chart provided. Those numbers are simply apples and apples + oranges. There has not been a 425M production budget since Avatar. Production budgets are what are thrown around everywhere, because everyone wants to know how much the director was given to actually make the movie and marketing costs are highly variable. The ASM movie had an estimated production budget of somewhere between 200M-255M. Although the nefarious intent accusations seem a little far fetched. Not sure what the point would be.

You are mixing budgets. The MOS numbers are production budget only. The ASM numbers are the production budget + marketing costs

I can't believe I never opened this thread 2002 towards2112, FlyingDonut, gman, ArAich, greggy, fingfangfoom, Chromium, supapimp, Bronzebruce13, CaptainOfIndustry/COI, valiantman, drummy, nearmint, Zonker, Architect, dena, SilverandBronze, chrisco37, bronty, fantastic_four, mr_highgrade, comic paradox, sborock, TheVisitor, joe_collector, awe4one, tkg2627, scottish, clobberintime, ComicDiva89, comiclink, comicwiz, comix4fun, delekkerste, Borg, drbanner, drice6900, darthdiesel, jimjum12, OldGuy, Ron_Nasty, skinny_white_boy, Povertyrow, RedFury, Mister_Comics, Dano, Gemma 2003 Timely, Nik, The_Black_Hand, Sterlingcomics, Shield, r100comics, Scrooge, Earl, BrianR, WEBHEAD, goldust40, sckao, Theagenes, detective27kid, Flaming_Telepath, Aces, Silver, shiverbones, sakaridis, 500Club, BurntBoy, seank, newerthannew, Mephisto, Calamerica, THE_BEYONDER, tth2, DCEng, Aman619, Methuselah, Hammer : ), jbud73, TheWatcher, NewtSamson, PUNYHUMAN, DiceX, Foolkiller, Mr. Zipper (zipper68), Beaumonts, Fan4Fan, Mr.Bedrock, ShieldAgent, SharpComics.com, Rube11, Rip, cgcworld, SilverAgeGuy 2004 xsmanx, JordanScott, r1970d, Stronguy, namisgr, Currin Comics, marvelcollector, toro, Buck Biggins, Norinn Radd, bounty_coder, iggy, nerfherder-3, comicdey, FFB, FUELMAN, cosmic-spider-man, jeffreykli, jimm94, MutantKeys, BradleyX2, batmanfan, tilleycs, bullet123, CentaurMan, divad, COMICKINGS, DawgPhan, ComicBookGuy, bcc, matchstick johnny, Brockley, rjpb, johnnycoolxx, Apotheosis, Comcasthawk, icefires, inconceivable, stinkowhiff, wrcomics, gozer, helionaut, pastandpresentcomics, mister_not_so_nice, Paris_Fred, Moondog, colossuscomics, fable, Murph, bghkoyama, Samurai-Bill, wdb23, TLC55555, Silver Surfer, Rich_Henn, DCman, Dmac538, action1kid, ASM-completist, oldmilwaukee6er, gifflefunk, dmgcsr, ghengishahn, spidrvacc, Fandango, micmack, squidmo2000, Jayman, Paul_Maul, eddly, samurai007, Durden08, rabidwolf, Shadow, Harvey Dude, 1st-and-keys, october, bubbagump, Kramerica, DKB, markav, MemphisChad, RustyStaple, Ajax, CatskillMike, The_Wolverine, GreatEscape, Reno McCoy, codfish, Khumbu, Shemp, The Brain, ajaxfarrell, Fastballspecial, Underdog, Broken Shakespear, finecomics, shrunkenhead, Rhino, arexcrooke, skybolt, jayvegas420,*paull*, Bat-Hound, WiseGuyX, dzminn, sd2416, lotemo, njyoder1982, CW, iron maniac, Stromm, alwaysbronze, Worldsbestcomics, comichut, Kakapo, borateen, heinlein99, Grimstarman, MasterChief, Artboy99, langur88, AussieRuss, Mithril Man, dem1138, jokersrevenge, the blob, DNAgent, tay666, Ijiwaru Sensei, precodekeith, Wally's Comics, Postal, Jayman, batman_fan, HeyMoe, SD2416 2005 Sal, kingofrulers, Crows, Cryptkeeper59, theHumanTorch, John72tex, RockMyAmadeus, BigMike, JmC, Benz, Point Five, Inhuman Fiend, GACollectibles, comicdonna, HouseofComics.com, Monkeyman, skypinkblu, Ogami (AKA noljoner), BRNebraska, Capt_Comics, Rodey, Jeffro, ashrael, comicalgems, Jokerman, seanfingh, Shootydog, Mushie, Ogami (AKA noljoner), thedude, Wrightson fan 2006 joeypost, nepatkm, lookwhoitis, MCMiles, thirdgreenham, Monstro, TimMaY, DrWatson, Korvac Saga, Ciorac (2004*), Karma23, Superman2006, ernster, Dark Knight, piper, SolitaireOne, JohnT, Loki, Juggernaut, *spoon* Pontoon, gaz973, Rodan57, innocuous, 1koko, DR.X, canickus, Slackjawcomics (previously FFCOMICS),1Cool, The Collector, *Bronze age fan*, frozentundraguy, ]Racetrack (AKA Anfield Fox) 2007 djpinkpanther67, BlowUpTheMoon, MacMan, Count, blue808, Mr. Diggler, trmoore54, cheetah, bosco685, MR. COMICBOOK, JazzMan, bronze_rules, Spidermanontilt, Designer Toast, TupennyConan, shark2557, snitzer, rtarturo, almoe, the shadow knows, cloudofwit, Dale Roberts, nwpassage, Big Daddy, Doctor Svord, Annihilus, szelim, drewincanada, telerites, electricprune, Rommin, He11blazer, Pitboss, Socratic Wonder, mschmidt, sliverseeker, GAMBIT!, DWL, DevilsRain, Bob-a-loo, Mister O, Ebel1911 2008 Comicopolis, Boozad, Nmtg9, Dollarbill, PEP, Black Lantern, Junkenstein99, Cimm, ShortstackComics, Universal Soldier, Lebowski, Beau, jeBailey, oakman29, Insaneclown, Ken Aldred, ComicDoc, Drakeprimeone, dwip99,UnRested Spectre, Comixcroz,str8rcn, Speedy-D, Palamas, Sqeggs, Junkdrawer, icculus308win, Senormac, Mutant Manatee, timern, KirbyJack,porcupine48 2009 slym2none, ashsaytr, marino1, gladuchka99, Jessica Alba, apollobuzz, wilblas, MLMeade, t3quila, robocard, Gg, mndb369, F For Fake, ThreeSeas, grinin 2010 mdktkd2, Peter in Portugal, aszumilo, John R, Scooter99, aggr1103, Liaton-9000, Nikelspot, Kevin.J, fiberbiskit, Chuck Gower, JollyComics, hulksmashdave 2011 Buzzetta, Venom, comeaux gyro, wipple, THB, MR-SigS, Magneto, Dr. Balls, Miraclemet, Illustrious,spiderphill, Awax, Ryan, newshane, Fan Boy, Bane, tjanse, Waylander 2012 HarveySwick, ItsJustRyan, carter3175, ThoseBackPages, ebtorres, Mangbus, CBT, HugeRosen, Revival_Hoarder, Hulk44, AnhDepTrai, igordesign23, DeadPoolJr., Hado, vaillant, thunsicker, Colicab, vader2001, awakeintheashes, crassus, LT212, Psithyrus, vaultkeeper, ComicCollectorx19, A.Romeo, Pike's Comics, Jking3437, Lucid Enigma, IchigosSoul, Hulksdaddy1 2013 jsilverjanet, Mmanick, kapzilla, edowens71, Jaybuck43, heymikesays, jaybes, archer, stanley1883, Red84, KPR Comics

I only noticed this thread and the General Discussion thread, after I had been here a couple years. My monitor splits the "Comics Market - Forum Selling Area" just under the Marketplace Usage Guidelines (as exciting as legalese boiler plate) when you are clicking around, so there is nothing to drive anyone to scroll down and see the threads below. Especially, when the "Golden Silver Bronze age", "Copper Moder age", "Mixed age", "VCC" above just scream out "Oooooohh, Shiny!!!!!!" Besides the layout, the amount of extraneous information that you have to keep up with to determine whether or not a seller is irresponsible, slow, rude, unprofessional, just plain flaky, an overpromiser/underdeliverer, bigoted, or in the wrong clique, is ridiculous.

It seems the goalposts of the "Wolverine wasn't the most popular/significant X-man until the late 80's" have changed. Now he has to be recognized by the mainstream non-comics audience or be "white hot"?

The 3X WW for breakeven is somewhat misleading, as the studios cut from domestic box office is somewhere around 50% and from international box office averages around 20-30% IIRC. This is why these are almost always broken out in charts. Thus, for a movie like 2012's ASM or 2013's Wolverine where international BO was basically double that of domestic, the actual studio profits were probably much less than something like 2013's Man of Steel, which saw a nearly even BO between domestic and international. I would agree that charts breaking out profit share from the total would be a fantastic next step in order to show the details of what goes to Marvel Studios/Disney versus their movie rights partners. But unfortunately that is not a common chart you see around. If you have found deep analysis on this topic, I'd love to read up on it as I have wondered about that information as well. 1) Profit share financials with joint studio partners. 2) Profit share financials with other parties (e.g. actors, special co-creator relationships, family estates, legal ventures). I went for the initial obvious, which is total domestic, domestic adjusted for 2014 inflation, and worldwide box office. I wasn't considering profit sharing numbers. Just pointing out the largest "hole" in the numbers is in equating domestic box office with international in the use of WWBO as the proxy for profitability. Since international BO is significantly less profitable for the studios than domestic it can significantly skew the numbers by combining them equally into a WW total and basing profitability on that total.

The 3X WW for breakeven is somewhat misleading, as the studios cut from domestic box office is somewhere around 50% and from international box office averages around 20-30% IIRC. This is why these are almost always broken out in charts. Thus, for a movie like 2012's ASM or 2013's Wolverine where international BO was basically double that of domestic, the actual studio profits were probably much less than something like 2013's Man of Steel, which saw a nearly even BO between domestic and international.

Staples replaced?

Yes, dicussions in PM get trumped by a universal 'I'll Take It' in the thread. But, I've had PM discussions with an 'I'll Take It' with a timestamp of 12:01 PM, and someone posts an 'I'll Take It' in the thread at 12:04 - and the thread loses out to the PM. Sucks when that happens because someone gets disappointed, but that should be how it goes: based on time. For me, it all depends on who pulls the pin first. It requires a seller to be honest in their dealings, but most of the time that's not a problem around here. Yea that's it. Forgot. Time Stamps. Unless you specifically say in your thread " Trumps All" Like in Speedy-D's sales thread. I usually do this too. I changed my sales thread text to read like this: ":takeit: Rules the day over PM negotiations. Time stamps are the be-all, end-all way of determining a sale. If an I'll Take It is posted in a PM and posted in the thread, that book will go to the post with earliest time stamp. " I think that seems pretty concise. Why don't sellers require PM negotiations to be finalized in the thread? Either with a thread posted per PM, confirmation by the buyer, or SOLD per PM, by the seller Then everything is crystal clear. The only issue of this, is risk to the PM buyers who do not want to disclose their identity and request the seller to post the SOLD via PM. That risk being that it is sold with an unconditional take it in the thread before the seller is able to post the SOLD.

I don't have too much of a problem with the new owner showing it to Dan. I am finding it harder to think of a reason for the new owner to allow a thread to be started about his investment which will surely depreciate it's value.

While this may be true for some, I feel that it is more an indication of the complete lack of empathy among an ever growing segment of the population. Lack of consideration for others has become rampant in society. For some it is akin to wearing blinders to the effects of their actions upon others. "It is all about me", has become an epidemic.

This was a really disappointing read

I think they are, when known. :shrug: -twen37 aka thocelizabeth aka elizabeth7372013 on ebay aka The House Of Comics.com aka Thomas Neely and/or Elizabeth Neely (added 6/28/13 - 14th "Hall of Shame" Member) - note - this is a different dealer than CGC board member HouseofComics.Com - SAGAT (added 4/29/11) - Off Board via eBay - eBay ID = Miffybunny (PL) -slym Don't we also know Frankies, Red Rocks ebay handles and I assume many others?

Is there a reason why ebay names are not listed, alongside board names, in the HOS/PL?

I didn't realize that setting a Speed record was a positive thing for the PL. I actually almost removed that PL entry but did my own digging first and found this in the sales thread that started it all: To me the part I emboldened (that is, to make appear in a bold text) is the key. It appears the transaction was still going on when he joined and, as a member, decided to cancel that transaction and go for another, less expensive copy. I consider this a fair interpretation of the existing rules. I was happy to see in in Athaxto's own words. However, in Athaxto's defense, that statement does not imply that there has been acceptance on his part. People kick tires all the time. As a seller, I have sent lots of invoices, requested by the buyer, which have ultimately never been paid. I agree about tire kicking but I am not sure how a PayPal invoice got to Athaxto unless he requested one, I don't see how that is different than posting , getting an invoice and then deciding not to go through with it. The PL covers completed transactions as well as promises to complete a transaction. I will say this was not the best nomination or putting on the list I've seen. More facts up front with time frames of the various events is what should be happening. With the internet their has come a blurring of the line where acceptance occurs. On the boards it is fairly simple. is fairly straightforward. Off the boards it is more complex and in practice rarely is a "negotiation" complete, until money changes hands. eBay brought the two parties to the table. It would have been easy to determine when an ebay "sale" had occurred, although clearly more expensive with an intermediary. Once ebay is removed, there is slightly more risk for both parties and one of those risks is that the transaction is not completed. Those risks are accepted by both parties. An invoice was tendered, rejected, then revised and was awaiting payment, the invoice recipient claims that the deal was not consummated until payment was made. I would not be able to find fault with that since there obviously was some reason why the invoice was originally rejected.

I didn't realize that setting a Speed record was a positive thing for the PL. I actually almost removed that PL entry but did my own digging first and found this in the sales thread that started it all: To me the part I emboldened (that is, to make appear in a bold text) is the key. It appears the transaction was still going on when he joined and, as a member, decided to cancel that transaction and go for another, less expensive copy. I consider this a fair interpretation of the existing rules. I was happy to see in in Athaxto's own words. However, in Athaxto's defense, that statement does not imply that there has been acceptance on his part. People kick tires all the time. As a seller, I have sent lots of invoices, requested by the buyer, which have ultimately never been paid.

eh, I have zero experience in international books, but always felt most collectors considered them a form of variant and if not limited, at least very difficult to track down. I prefer not to convict people for potentially screwing someone in the future and I don't recall evidence where anyone actually claimed he screwed them, other than the attempt to change the terms of his sales thread, which the buyer could have presented to the PL for resolution.

I am not that interested. I also feel that his flipping the bird to the forum would essentially prevent him from being removed. I didn't vote in his or Menace's poll because I haven't really frequented this sub-forum and felt I must have been missing something when the poll results were so lopsided in favor of HOS.

I think the solarcadet inclusion in the HOS also dilutes the value of the HOS. If it was simply a list of giant tools, sure. But his one or two PL worthy incidents should have been handled via PL or exactly as they were, with public outings when the buyer didn't want to push for PL. Just like the public outing when he lied about his father having cancer to generate sympathy for delayed shipment. If we are just going to include everyone who is an , the HOS is going to be unmanageable.

It doesn't sound like the buyer has done anything wrong. The risk of shipment is on you, as the seller, unless some other agreement is specifically reached. Even then, Paypal will refund the buyer if they complain directly, as their terms of use, override your agreement. I would think the buyer was simply filing the claim to prevent his dispute window from closing. It may be a little early, but maybe he is going to be busy for the next week or so....

Agreed. I would be more concerned with how CGC is handling this in regards to allowing Menace to continue as a facilitator. The HOS should be reserved for thieves with no remorse. Like Mr. Ticket's best buddy. Allowing personal feelings and mob mentality, which this thread has been devolved into recently, will eventually reduce the PL and the HOS to something of little or no importance. Does this not apply to the solarcadet issue?

I would love to see links to articles, pro or con. I would have to say the guy does not really seem to be "trying" to sell these very hard. I do think he has extended himself on the claims a bit, based on people he talked to at the manufacturer (who are hardly unbiased). And likely based on it being his "baby" 10 years ago. He surely has not made any money on them in the last year when he started giving away some of his old stock as free samples. I also agree with him that they are likely economically not a viable product except direct online.