InvstmntComcSuply

You keep bringing up newbs with attic finds, garage sales, etc. What about the far more common regular boardie who has sold dozens+ of $10-$500 books over the years, the vast majority of which had no mention of restoration whatsoever? He may even say in his new thread "Garage sale! Please feel free to ask any questions!" Apparently, NOTHING IS IMPLIED. So, these sellers have the right to tell buyers to go pound sand when they discover undisclosed restoration?

Books offered for sale with no mention of restoration are implied to be unrestored and complete. By offering a Bats #123 for sale, if I ship a bats #123 with a coupon cutout, the book was not what was offered and the sale has not been completed. If I ship a Bats #123 with restoration, the book was not what was offered and the sale has not been completed. When a sale is incomplete, the buyer can force the return for a full refund, even if returns are not allowed. This is the industry standard. If I ship a Bats #123 and the buyer disagrees with the grade, the sale has been completed and any remedy for the buyer is based on my stated terms or whatever the buyer and i can agree to, after the fact. Anyone who wishes to have other terms should explicitly state such terms in their sales thread eg: These books are offered "As is" These books are offered with No restoration guarantee I know nothing about comic books and you will be getting whatever the hell is in the picture. God help you if there are no pages within the cover, because I sure won't. "Found these books in my attic! Please feel free to ask any questions! " would not absolve the buyer from the industry standard as far as I am concerned, unless they specifically followed it up with something like the above.

Were grade disagreements the purview of PL discussions?

FTFY

50% of readers think "Wow, cool, can't wait to hear what you get" 50% of readers think "Loc: Somewhere in middle America"

We are only talking about restoration that was unknown to the seller. The argument has been over the claim that: Raw books offered for sale are always implied to be unrestored, unless otherwise mentioned by the seller. Furthermore, that this is industry and board standard.

It is an industry standard. And a board standard. It may be an industry standard. It is not a board standard. Show me a board decision that supported anyone who refused to refund on undisclosed restoration. Disregard extended time frames for the time being as I think they should be addressed separately.

It is an industry standard. And a board standard.

And of course the end result of your position would be people having a list of questions for every purchase. Which is why it is untenable.

We are talking about restoration. Are you implying we need to ask if every book is restored prior to purchase? I am saying that it is the responsibility of any buyer to ask about the product they are buying. If restoration is important to a buyer then of course they should ask and not assume. Sorry, I vehemently disagree. Have there been any board decisions which have contradicted my position?

It seemed to contradict your previous response to my post so I quoted for posterity while I pondered. I blame multitasking. It sort of sounded right when I was reading jimjims post, but clearly not after you quoted it. Here is where I was going: Agreed and when restoration is not noted, the book is implied to be as manufactured, with only normal wear. No need to assume otherwise. Fair enough. I simply disagree. If it is important to the buyer then they should ask. I would say that if it is important to the seller, then he should state that they make no restoration guarantee. Then we can see how that sales thread goes.

We are talking about restoration. Are you implying we need to ask if every book is restored prior to purchase?

It seemed to contradict your previous response to my post so I quoted for posterity while I pondered. I blame multitasking. It sort of sounded right when I was reading jimjims post, but clearly not after you quoted it. Here is where I was going: Agreed and when restoration is not noted, the book is implied to be as manufactured, with only normal wear. No need to assume otherwise.

yeah, that does sound kind of dumb ...

Agreed and when restoration is not noted, one assumes the book is as manufactured, with only normal wear

I disagree. Raw books are always implied to be unrestored, unless otherwise mentioned by the seller.

But this is also my concern for 1+ year returns claiming hidden restoration.

Count me in with the rest who think that Rupp's request of less than 20% of the sale price was within reason, even 13 months after the sale.

What proof do you need if there is no denial? Why should the buyer's bad assumptions protect him from his acceptance?

Because the buyer did not contradict the sellers summary.

As an aside, buyers regularly have no idea how much it costs to ship things. Often the shipping cost is built into the cost of the item "FREE shipping!!!!" Often purchases over $250 are shipped without signature confirmation (extremely costly on international shipments) Domestically many nonqualifying items are shipped by inexpensive media mail Many non-professional sellers also have no idea how much shipping costs and unintentionally end up subsidizing shipping, further distorting buyers perceptions

If I give an estimate for international shipping that a buyer agrees to, and it ends up being accurate, is it really my fault if the buyer later states "but I get shipments from the US all the time for 1/2 of your estimate"?