Silverdream

Yup i agree with you 100%. However, this is one book I have "hoarded" for many years. Some of these copies came from collections from folks that used to serve in the army. I remember one particular Bronze / Copper collection I bought from a service member had the MJ inserts in almost all of the books and a star stamp on the front covers. I recalled there were some Darkhawks in that collection including issue #1 but none of them had any MJ inserts. Which is why I said I am totally convinced that no MJ inserts exist for the Darkhawk books. (thumbs u I gotacha, I just didn't want people to be confused. Its totally possible to hoard a particular book and never see a MJ copy is all I was trying to say, one would assume you would have run into one by now, as you have said, if they existed however. I live 5 minutes from one of the largest Military bases on the planet ( Ft Hood, Tx ) From my childhood on up, I was more perplexed when I DIDNT see a MJ insert, than when I did. It's something ive learned quite a lot about in my time as ive always been interested in them. If you ever get interested in them, try finding the last few issues that had them ( cover dated July 1991 ) They are quite hard to find. We assume that is the last month, as no one has produced a MJI past that month, but its still possible a few are out there dated August 1991.

I own enough Darkhawk #1's to say that no mark jeweler inserts exist for that book. I also have not encounter any double covers yet. How many copies you own is irrelevant honestly. Obtaining MJI books matters where they came from, not how many you have. Ive owned over a thousand copies of a single book, and none had the MJ insert, that I know for a fact existed. That being said, there is zero chance any Darkhawk copies have MJ inserts because Marvel and MJ agreed to end their relationship at the end of 1990, and only agreed to continue the inserts into 1991 to exhaust the already printed ads. These overstocked ads were simply inserted into the books that they had previously been inserted in, until they ran out. There would have been no plan in place to add them to new books, and if you are a true MJ collector, you know how serious they were about finding out what titles were selling the most jewelry. These extra copies would have been placed in their already chosen titles. If you do find a copy of Darkhawk 1-5 with a MJ insert, I would strongly suggest checking out the cut of the insert,see how it matches with the rest of the pages of the book, and closely inspect the staples for any manipulation ( scratching mostly ) and inspect the staple holes. The only way I see any copy of darkhawk with a MJI existing, is one being married to it. A few double covers ( or multiple covers ) most likely exist, but there wont be any proof until we see them. Anything with a print run over 100k, mathematically speaking, should have at least one. Typically, there is 1 double cover in about 10,000 copies, unless it was just one of those days at the printers. For instance I've seen and owned more Uncanny Xmen #202 double covers than anything else, it almost feels like they were printed every 200 copies. I once found two DC's of this book back to back in overstock. Of course, it could go the other way as well for different books, and there could be only 1 or 2, or even none, that's just extremely unlikely however.

I'll make it simple for you, as you are stuck on a path with everything else. The image clearly says it all. Ororo explaining what has taken place before and up to her arrival. And the footnote referencing where to read about this history to piece together the full Claremont story so as to catch up to how Ororo ended up where she is at that point in time. Not even a mention of Gambit as part of that footnote, though of course he is a key part of the UXM #266-267 content. You may assume Gambit was prominently featured in the Annual. But honestly, there is nothing prominent (important, well-known) about his appearance. Which is probably why CGC is stuck on the cameo note. If you are being factual and honest with yourself, it is clear there is nothing prominent about Gambit's appearance in X-Men Annual #14 other than he appears throughout the book. He isn't even central to the story. That's the facts. Debate them all you want. I find it interesting that you have provided pictures of ALL gambits small page appearances in the annual to basically back the idea this is a cameo and conveniently forget to add the image for page 15. You personally provided the images earlier on page 4 of this thread, it seems after 37 pages you have formed a strong opinion towards Annual 14 still being a cameo. That's fine by me if you want to think that way, even though I do not agree, but don't exclude things to support your opinion. Here is your image to page 15. For me, the sum of everything should be used to form or argue an opinion , not the sum of SOME. Everything you provided above could be very easily argued as a cameo, even though those 9 cropped images are from 8 different pages. When you add in pages 15 and 16 from the annual... well I guess you know what happens, it breaks down the cameo argument. Factual and Honest. SMH.

They are 1/10th the print run . Hi! Is this a guess, or do you know for sure? It's an approximation. Using what was mentioned earlier that the population of Canada is about 1/10th that of the USA. It's often the rule of thumb used for Canadian Price Variants. But I would also agree with the post earlier and believe the print run to be less and extremely tough to find in high grade. But as I'm sure you know, it's a complete guess. I don't imagine print runs have ever been tied, in even the most tenuous way, to general populations, or their ratios, of people. Yes, the print run was smaller than the Direct and US newsstand copies, but how much smaller isn't generally known at this time. Hopefully, that information will be revealed somewhere, somewhen. For 4-6 years of production, that information has to still exist somewhere. I find the Canadian priced copies phenomenon quite interesting. I suppose the main reason people are attracted to it, is because its still in Cent price format. English pence copies of Silver age marvel books have always lagged behind their Cent priced counterparts, even though they are the exact same books printed at the same time. Similar rarity, yet nobody cares. Owning a pence copy has always been an " I cant find a nice America copy , so this will be my filler" type of thing. This is still going on today. Sometimes I am intrigued, other times I am confused by the fickleness of comic collecting trends.

What? Wait, you are comparing the Enormous Treasury to a preview? That is simply mind boggling. Of course buy what you want, that is not the point at all. The Treasury is the first appearance, PERIOD. There is no " arguing" about it. As has already been been said, the main character has the same name, the title of the book is the same and the overall idea is the same. You can call the Treasury less refined, or rough all you want, it doesn't matter, its still the first appearance, just as TMNT # 1 is the first appearance of the turtles. Just as caliber presents is the first appearance of the Crow, both of which are rough, unrefined starts to the characters, As is the case with all 1st appearances of new characters and stories. I don't own a single copy of any Enormous book. I don't care what book sells for more. I was just trying to inject some sense and reality into some of the comments being made here. I think it may be best if I let Natural Selection do its thing here instead...

These prices are going to bring out more sellers. Yeah, I have a copy that is around 7.0 and this is making me at least ponder selling. However, looking at how the deadpool book isn't stopping, I think Ill still hold onto mine.

As far as I can determine it is the 1st full appearance for at least Ellen :shrug: This hobby is incredibly fickle, and often there is little rhyme or reason to anything. I'll probably get rid of my two treasury copies if I can because I don't collect treasury books and they're in my way... another reason people choose to ignore it I'm sure. Its not fickle the Image oversized book is a one-shot never was a series. This current run is the series and its a different company. The tv option and series is the 215 version. Those are all drawbacks for the Treasury. It is totally fickle - the main protagonist (so far) clearly first appears in the treasury edition from Image. The publisher is irrelevant, it is creator owned. Tim has come on here and clearly has stated that was his first unpolished volley into the comic book world. She more polished in this series. Its like the Gambit uncanny x-men 266 versus the annual issue, the comic book market has made its decision. You can choose to rage against the machine but it is what it is. Just like you stated for many post earlier about how you didn't think the NYCC was worth much cause its a second print. Market has decided - not sure what complaining about it will solve. No. It is nothing like the annual 14 vs 266. The general collecting population was lied to ( by Overstreet and nearly every other publishing company including CGC ) for decades that the annual was a cameo ( therefore their choice was skewed) , and there were questions of which came out first. Annual 14 was first and its not a cameo. This is all proven now. This is the exact same situation with Conan 23 and 24. The Enormous treasury is suffering because people cannot fit it into their boxes and it cannot be CGC graded. It doesn't matter what company put the book out. It doesn't matter how well rounded the characters are.... for goodness sake characters are normally NOT well rounded in their first appearances. Its the same Title and same main character. The first appearance is the treasury, the market, which is still going through its motions on this book, is still undecided. If you think the market has made its choice before the show is out, you are being foolish. The regular issues are trending upward and the treasury is stagnant because of the reasons I, and others, have stated in this thread. If the show is made and its 1/10th as popular as WD, the treasury will explode. If it doesn't get made.... you can stick them, and all your other Enormous books in your boxes with your SIXTH GUN books. Unpolished Volley into the comic book world? Do you realize that can be said for nearly every independent book ever made? Some of which contain MAJOR characters like TMNT? Is TMNT # 1 Irrelevant because it's oversized and it was an unpolished example of Eastman and Lairds work? Get a Clue. Yes , I woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I also order my copies from him, been out of town so hopefully they are at my po box Yup, he's a great seller! (thumbs u I received the 5 SG phantoms I ordered from him, Tuesday. 4 of the 5 are really nice. The 5th one has a hole-small tear on the back cover. I'm pretty certain it is production damage, and not from shipping. Pretty bummed about it, but not worth the time to ask for anything back, plus, I got these at the original $13 price tag. only 2,999 Phantoms left above VG

Do they really go for that much? That's actually a low price right now - I'll bet it pops to over $300 very quickly. Yeah that book usually goes for more...lucky buyer. Shows you how costly it can be not to realize what you have... , I think $177 is amazing for not mentioning it was a 35 center. Actually, based on the picture provided I think $177 is dead on. Its nothing past a 7.5 max. Those can be had cgc graded for $300 and some change, factor in grading and shipping fee's and id rather spend another $50 on a graded copy in the same rather than take a chance on this raw book.

They are much more common than MJI's, they are not in every book however, so as Divad said, its worth noting, and IMO Collecting!

Do they really go for that much? Never underestimate the ASM collectors. I have found all sorts of hidden gems on ebay, except Spiderman stuff. Too many people looking it seems.

Do they really go for that much? That's actually a low price right now - I'll bet it pops to over $300 very quickly. If it goes past $250 its not because of its rarity, it will be because they want to win. There are two CGC copies on the bay right now one at 6.0 and one at 8.0. either can be had for under $400. This one looks no better than a 7.0 with the creasing to the Bottom RC on the cover.

i guarantee this is because of me... i went in there and raid their dollar bin 2 days ago... took 14 copies... and they were like "whats going on with this book?"... i just said i was taking a gamble... same thing happened when i took a huge stack of Morlocks #1... next day the price skyrocketed ... That's funny. I don't understand the overreaction in price increase however. So he sells a dozen copies for $1 each and that triggers research. That research shows what? Speculation and some $10-15 sales. So raise the price to... $45?? Why? Is their goal to be priced 3-5x higher than the market?

Yeah, or DKR... He may be a tad overzealous... I think its more PR for his EoSV 2 reprint than anything else. Which I'm surprised Marvel is OK with since it's "free" for $10. Right. The entire point of FCBD is to give out free books to everyone and anyone who wants a single copy to celebrate the genre. The intention is to get traffic in the stores that day, to bring attention to this media form and hopefully make someone fall in love with comics and become a regular buyer. Making $$ off of FCBD books just seems sleazy, at least retailers doing so, the secondary market is different. Save books that you have left over for next year and have a larger selection.

Nope, but that's not what it's all about. It's all about the money...how the text on the little blue label syncs up with the number on said label. Peace, Chip Is that what this is all about? Everyone is motivated in different ways. It's hard to tell which way when we are looking at black text from a monitor. Sometimes when something is very obvious and there are detractors, its easy to single someone out and claim they are " vested" in a particular book. It's the easiest answer , and sometimes the most logical. Doesn't mean it's true, don't get me wrong. It's also easy for one to point at large dealers influencing CGC. It happens. Who knows when, but I have no doubt that it happens. My motivation is simple. I have been very annoyed that most sources claim Annual 14 is a cameo for over two decades now, CGC labeling it a cameo, on the second line is even more annoying. I have a few copies of each and no CGC copies. I don't really care about Gambit. I care that it is called what it really is.

Imagine a three issue mini series where , like many shows and movies nowadays, it starts in the middle of the story, instead of in chronological order. You see the hero for the first time in issue number 1, which continuity wise, is the middle portion of the story. It starts in the middle of the action and there is no explanation of how we got to this point. Issue number 2 you go back to the beginning showing what lead up to the events in issue 1, including the introduction of said hero. Issue 3 closes everything off properly. They do this often in movies and shows ( Breaking bad did it nearly every single episode ) They don't do this in comics much... but if they did... I ask all of you continuity truthers ( haha ) What is the first appearance of our hero?

Sure, it makes you wonder why. We can get into the why's all day, but it doesn't change the fact that one came out first. That is the whole point of this conversation. Which was first. The why doesn't really matter, at least not to the general collecting populace. If you are interested in the historical aspect of how and why things happened, that's fine. I dig it actually. I don't think it would hurt anything. It is simply not a standard used, ever. Why now? Why this book? Why not ASM 252? Being published " close" to each other matters? Why? What is the limit? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? What do you suggest the standard be to put asterisks next to books with continuity problems? Does it have to be a publishing decision or problem? It just feels like some of you want to pick and choose which books to put asterisks next to. Personally I think the books should be labeled like this: Annual 14 1st appearance of Gambit. Xmen 266 1st cover and full appearance of Gambit. Why ad the continuity mess information to it? It's un-needed. One was published first. That is what matters.

I'm not sure this is 100% apples to apples, as the story in X-Men Annual #14 is a continuation of how Ororo and Gambit linked up in UXM 266-267 leading up to their breaking into the Xavier Mansion and running into The New Mutants. If you go back and read through the three books, you can tell how the story was supposed to flow from one to the other. Is the ASM 252 and Secret Wars 1-12 storyline tied together like that? It's been a long time since I read these. Spiderman disappears at the end of ASM 251 pulled into the world that all the heroes were pulled into, then reappears in ASM 252 with the black costume. All of this is tied in. with secret wars, which was stretched out over a year. Continuity wise, the entire events of Secret Wars happens in-between ASM 251 and 252. ASM 252 is a continuation of what happened in secret wars 1-12. So... what is the first appearance of the black costume? ASM 252 May 1984 OR Secret Wars # 8 December 1984 ( published 7 months later ) This is what happens when you start playing around with Continuity discrepancies and try to call something published later a 1st appearance. Nearly everyone agrees ASM 252 is the first appearance of the Black costume. By release date it is correct. That is how it should be.

NO Not sure what to make of that Trying to Isolate this single issue ( x-men annual 14 ) based on continuity, while letting all other forms of continuity " firsts" go unchecked is absurd. It doesn't matter if the story is out of order intentionally or unintentionally , or in this case, not cared about either way. The result is the same. You see a character for the first time out of order. That is why release date is used and should always be used.

OR... That is what makes the release of Amazing Spider-man 252 an odd duck when compared to the content of Secret Wars 8. Continuity-wise, the story in the latter happens before the story in the former. And with the footnote in Amazing Spider-man 252 * , it references to read Secret Wars to understand what happened leading up to the story in Amazing Spider-man 252. * page 7 of ASM 252: " Does all this make you just a LITTLE bit curious? Then pick up Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars -- Danny" See the problem that is created here? We can insert dozens of books into that statement and it works. Yet this annual is the only one people are trying to place in this manner. It doesn't make sense. Intentional or accidental, it doesn't matter. Release date is what matters.

I think the fact that as an X-Men reader back then, you open up Annual 14 and see a character you have never seen before interacting with Storm, which makes us think who the heck is this guy?? There was no introduction to the character just random placement in a book he didn't even need be in. Then 266 comes out a month later and we get formally introduced to the character with the story that had taken place prior to the events in Annual 14. Yes his first appearance was in Annual 14, but the book that mattered then and still matters most is 266. They won't be flip flopping in price, just like Hulk 180 will never overtake 181. That is what makes the release of X-Men Annual #14 an odd duck when compared to the content of UXM #266. Continuity-wise, the story in the latter happens before the story in the former. And with the footnote in X-Men Annual #14, it references to read UXM 265-267 to understand what happened leading up to the story in X-Men Annual #14. So this is not like Hulk 180 and 181. The continuity in those two books is Wolverine appears in the last panel of Hulk 180, the story continues in 181, and then in 183 off Wolverine goes after the battle. In that case, Marvel cleanly kept the story flowing in the right order. CGC potential label clarity: X-Men Annual #14: 1st published Gambit appearance (noted as appearing in UXM 266 beforehand) UXM #266: 1st appearance of Gambit based on storyline content That's reality. I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree. If you do this, then you have to do it for ASM 252 as well. And dozens or even hundreds of other books. Also, doing this opens up arguments about time travel, flashbacks and so fourth. You're asking for a mess. Keep it clean. Release date wins, period.

I am amazed at how many copies Doug Sulipa has of Epic Illustrated 3. Must be 100-200 copies. At least at the start of the heat with dreadstar a few months ago. Big time buyer and collector of course. He has separate listings for most grades 7.0 + and multiple copies of each, and pictures of each copy. Pretty slick. The man has earned it for keeping on with what he loves, even though the last 20 years those books were worth nearly nothing and/or impossible to sell.

One man's rust is another man's treasure.. see what I did there?

so what comic is that then? This is all so hilarious to me. You realize this is an ad right? They spent time setting up the lettering, made an order form to subscribe, dotted cutout lines and all. Does anyone really think they would do all this and then place the ad in a single book? Here: Every single book put out by adventure comics in April 1992 has either the single page ad or the double page ad. Rust # 1 is one of 8 books with the same ad. I have them all and have verified. I own 3 of the 7 comics put out by Adventure comics in March 1992. They have the ad as well. My assumption is, they created this ad to be placed in ALL their books for March, April and May of 1992 ( yes May issues have the ad as well ) Buy Spawn # 1. Unless you want a 1st ad appearance that is tied by 6 other books. all this advertisement stuff makes me go

Bringing this thread back to the front page so I can inform all the people that actually purchased, or are thinking of purchasing Rust # 1 April 1992 , It Is NOT the first ad in a comic book for Spawn. You have been lied to, by people trying to make a quick buck, who are not even informed enough to get a 1st ad appearance right. There is a double page splash advertisement with the exact image used on the back cover of Malibu sun 13 in some comics dated March 1992. 1 month before Rust # 1, 2 months before Malibu sun 13. None of this matters of course, because the first appearance of Spawn is in Spawn # 1. But if you are going to blow your cash on a Spawn ad, do not buy Rust # 1.