Silverdream

It's almost hard to blame BLMOdirect. He did everything right with his listing , except the " 1st" he threw in at the end of the title. He didn't mention anything about it being a 1st in the description, just that it has a spawn ad. It's obvious he has a few copies of this book, as he sold a few others early last month for cheap, and without the spawn mention. Hard to say what the right thing to do would be. Sell it at his normal price, ignoring the hype? Pull the listing until the smoke clears? He definitely should not have put the " 1st " in there.

There is a small, but very vocal, movement about to change long held hobby conventions regarding the definitions of terms like "first appearance." For example...according to these folks, the first appearances of scores of characters wasn't in any comic book...it was in Previews. Because, ya know...that's their first "appearance." Also...the listing that starts this thread is still in violation of eBay rules. You CANNOT sell "secret" items. Correct on all counts. I will also add, that its obvious that these people are out for the quick buck, since this Rust book isn't even the first " ad " for spawn. Spawn is on the cover of previews two months earlier, this is contradictory to their own arguments. If they have a copy of something, its the one they push. All motived by making money. To push this book as a 1st anything is a blatant lie.

1,600 copies of the Spider-Gwen ASM300 homage now sold on ebay. Graham crackers sold out. Larry has reportedly sold out. Per Jimmy Plenty on eBay still. " more than 10" Not trying to beat a dead horse, just keeping track for everyone.

1,500 verified sales through ebay will be coming shortly. That's half the stated print run for the color ASM 300 homage. Most of them from the 4 major sellers that had them. These books should dry up soon. Im sure Larry has sold a ton via his advertisement for them. Plus other sellers have many copies like drewbizz on ebay. He is pretty savvy. I really doubt he got less than 50 copies. Knowing Larry, he will hold onto * some* copies. What does that leave left?

Not that I agree with any of this nonsense.... But wouldn't the March 1992 issue of previews have all of these other " 1st ads" beat by a mile? I guess since its not an ad in a comic book, but an ad, it an advertisement magazine , it doesn't count? Talk about ironic if that's the case. lmao

Its going to be a lot higher than that I think.

From what ive counted so far, it looks like almost 800 copies of the Color variant has sold on eBay within a few hours. With off eBay sales I have to imagine 1,500 ( 50% of the print run ) copies are already spoken for.

only one person can answer this question, and based on his CGC board floggings, I wouldn't expect this to be the venue for him to respond to that question. I want to make it clear that I am not insinuating anything sinister is going on here. I'm just asking a question that I really think needs to be answered. I've never seen a book sell so fast in my life. If they could request more copies before the initial run was printed, it wouldn't be considered a 2nd printing btw, to answer the question above.

That's fine, I just cant help but wonder, if all 3,000 sell out in a day, which is where this is heading, cant they just ask for more? If they are going to state the print run, then it needs to be that number.

Exactly my point. They obviously had an initial order set up with marvel, with a set print run, but I am really starting to wonder if they initially set it up for 3,000 copies, can't they just call marvel up and tell them... " umm yeah its hot, print another 10,000" I highly doubt Marvel would say no to making more money. Some one really needs to answer this question.

Looking for some serious honesty from one of the main Phantom variant dealers. With how fast this book is selling on pre-orders, I'm starting to wonder about how the print run is going to go. From the looks of it, this book will sell out in 1-2 more days IF the print run was already set in stone. My question, for any honest and open Phantom Variant dealer in the know is this: If your initial agreement with Marvel, was lets just say 5,000 copies. Are you going to double, or even triple that order since it hasn't shipped, and most likely hasn't been printed yet? I'm starting to wonder if it even CAN sell out, it almost has the feeling of " order as many as you like, we will have them print enough to cover the orders"

I had to pick up a couple, its just too cool not to. Nearly 100 copies sold in an hour. I wonder what the print run on each will be.

Called the hot topic in my area as soon as I heard the information a few days ago. They had already destroyed and discarded them. They are unsure if they will get anymore. Called again today. Different person, same answer.

Orrrrrr....some understand the use of the language, and don't see any need to change the language to accommodate people who want to change meanings for no valid reason, and the worst reason of all: personal gain. Nothing is "changing." There are simply people who don't understand what the term "first appearance" means, and/or want the definition of a "first appearance" to change so they can make money. There's no great sea change to redefine what "first appearance" means. Honest. And, if on the extremely remote chance that the idea of a "first appearance" being a PREVIEW gains ANY traction in the comics market, there will be a grand backlash by thinking, rational people. "What's that?" "Marvel Age #97. It's the first appearance of Darkhawk!" "Oh, really? Huh. I didn't know that. Cool, I'll pick it up." (time passes) "Hey, this isn't his first appearance. This is just a PREVIEW!" "Right, the first appearance!" "Um...no, Darkhawk #1 is his first appearance. He isn't even IN this book, it's a book with interviews and ! You lied to me. This is just a PREVIEW. Do you know what a PREVIEW is...?" Marvel Requirer 11 is the first appearance and cover for Darkhawk. Also I dare anyone to produce a published definition from overstreet etc. that states that a first appearance has to exist inside a story or be meaningful in any way. Even the term Cameo simply means debut and a debut in comic terms and the literal definition simply states that it is the first time a character appears. Appears. Not appears in a story or on a cover or in a shadowy, dim lit cave. While I understand the frustrations concerning this by some of you older dealers ( I say dealers because I find it hard to believe that many of you in a thread like this are simply collectors ) time makes corrections and in this case it's long overdue. I do understand that some of you hate the idea of a magazine as a first ( see Rocket Raccoon ) or an insert ( see Preacher Preview ) or a paperback ( see The Empire Strikes Back PB, first Bobba Fett ) but they are firsts even if the majority of collectors and the marketplace wish something else to be true or cannot let go of long standing incorrect traditions. If you want to say that Hulk 271 is RR's first comic appearance then you would be correct. If you want to say that Darkhawk #1 is his third appearance, third cover and first story then you would be correct. The fact is a first appearance does not need to be valuable. As a collector I expect the hobby i love to be factually accurate. If the facts are reflected in value then great but the market is based on money not truth so it's not a requirement. I'm on your side with this Ween, you can't dispute a first appearance, it is what it is. I constantly hear the Warlock argument, and sorry but FF 67 is his first appearance. FF66 is the first Cocoon. So many keep saying oh the Thor issue blah blah blah. You quote him, agree with him, and then go on to use three examples of " in story" comic book appearances. You are arguing Cameo VS Full, nothing close to what ween was talking about. A Cameo is defined as a brief appearance. A brief appearance can be a first appearance. I have always hated how this hobby has warped the definition of cameo. Here are some overstreet definitions for how they have always defined Cameo,First Appearance and Debut: Ween, this entire conversation has been about whether we should be calling Ads or Previews 1st appearances. Zack comes here claiming he agrees with what you are saying, and then switches to a Cameo VS First appearance argument, which has absolutely nothing to do with that initial conversation. We are talking about Ads and Previews.

Orrrrrr....some understand the use of the language, and don't see any need to change the language to accommodate people who want to change meanings for no valid reason, and the worst reason of all: personal gain. Nothing is "changing." There are simply people who don't understand what the term "first appearance" means, and/or want the definition of a "first appearance" to change so they can make money. There's no great sea change to redefine what "first appearance" means. Honest. And, if on the extremely remote chance that the idea of a "first appearance" being a PREVIEW gains ANY traction in the comics market, there will be a grand backlash by thinking, rational people. "What's that?" "Marvel Age #97. It's the first appearance of Darkhawk!" "Oh, really? Huh. I didn't know that. Cool, I'll pick it up." (time passes) "Hey, this isn't his first appearance. This is just a PREVIEW!" "Right, the first appearance!" "Um...no, Darkhawk #1 is his first appearance. He isn't even IN this book, it's a book with interviews and ! You lied to me. This is just a PREVIEW. Do you know what a PREVIEW is...?" Marvel Requirer 11 is the first appearance and cover for Darkhawk. Also I dare anyone to produce a published definition from overstreet etc. that states that a first appearance has to exist inside a story or be meaningful in any way. Even the term Cameo simply means debut and a debut in comic terms and the literal definition simply states that it is the first time a character appears. Appears. Not appears in a story or on a cover or in a shadowy, dim lit cave. While I understand the frustrations concerning this by some of you older dealers ( I say dealers because I find it hard to believe that many of you in a thread like this are simply collectors ) time makes corrections and in this case it's long overdue. I do understand that some of you hate the idea of a magazine as a first ( see Rocket Raccoon ) or an insert ( see Preacher Preview ) or a paperback ( see The Empire Strikes Back PB, first Bobba Fett ) but they are firsts even if the majority of collectors and the marketplace wish something else to be true or cannot let go of long standing incorrect traditions. If you want to say that Hulk 271 is RR's first comic appearance then you would be correct. If you want to say that Darkhawk #1 is his third appearance, third cover and first story then you would be correct. The fact is a first appearance does not need to be valuable. As a collector I expect the hobby i love to be factually accurate. If the facts are reflected in value then great but the market is based on money not truth so it's not a requirement. I understand that some of you actually hate reading your comics, and that collecting comics doesn't mean you have actually read any of them, but that's what they are meant for, and that is where the importance comes from. I collect and read comics. I am not a dealer, but I have enough comics that I suppose I could be one if I chose. To assume anything based on what threads one visits, is absurd. The fact that you pop up in all of these threads makes me wonder a few things, but to come on here an actually say something based on a flimsy assumption is, well I already said it, absurd. It's obvious your argument is weak, since you have to stoop to calling people who argue against your train of thought " dealers" Insinuating we are not real collectors and our thoughts and arguments are motivated by monetary reasons. That is quite disrespectful. You should really think twice before you type. It's not like someone accused of that can show their " I'm not a dealer card" Going there just shows how desperate you get at times. You have done it before. Stop. I'm cool with Rocket Raccoon's first comic book story being considered his first appearance. Think I'm talking about IH271? I'm not. A magazine , using a comic book format, created by a comic book company, is still a comic book story, and should be a first appearance. Everything else you stated? . Dude I collect comics, not everything paper related.. Not paper back books, nor posters, or advertisements. While I agree Previews, flyers and the sort can be collectible, Its the term first appearance attempting to be linked to them, is where the problem lies.

Orrrrrr....some understand the use of the language, and don't see any need to change the language to accommodate people who want to change meanings for no valid reason, and the worst reason of all: personal gain. Nothing is "changing." There are simply people who don't understand what the term "first appearance" means, and/or want the definition of a "first appearance" to change so they can make money. There's no great sea change to redefine what "first appearance" means. Honest. And, if on the extremely remote chance that the idea of a "first appearance" being a PREVIEW gains ANY traction in the comics market, there will be a grand backlash by thinking, rational people. "What's that?" "Marvel Age #97. It's the first appearance of Darkhawk!" "Oh, really? Huh. I didn't know that. Cool, I'll pick it up." (time passes) "Hey, this isn't his first appearance. This is just a PREVIEW!" "Right, the first appearance!" "Um...no, Darkhawk #1 is his first appearance. He isn't even IN this book, it's a book with interviews and ! You lied to me. This is just a PREVIEW. Do you know what a PREVIEW is...?" Marvel Requirer 11 is the first appearance and cover for Darkhawk. Also I dare anyone to produce a published definition from overstreet etc. that states that a first appearance has to exist inside a story or be meaningful in any way. Even the term Cameo simply means debut and a debut in comic terms and the literal definition simply states that it is the first time a character appears. Appears. Not appears in a story or on a cover or in a shadowy, dim lit cave. While I understand the frustrations concerning this by some of you older dealers ( I say dealers because I find it hard to believe that many of you in a thread like this are simply collectors ) time makes corrections and in this case it's long overdue. I do understand that some of you hate the idea of a magazine as a first ( see Rocket Raccoon ) or an insert ( see Preacher Preview ) or a paperback ( see The Empire Strikes Back PB, first Bobba Fett ) but they are firsts even if the majority of collectors and the marketplace wish something else to be true or cannot let go of long standing incorrect traditions. If you want to say that Hulk 271 is RR's first comic appearance then you would be correct. If you want to say that Darkhawk #1 is his third appearance, third cover and first story then you would be correct. The fact is a first appearance does not need to be valuable. As a collector I expect the hobby i love to be factually accurate. If the facts are reflected in value then great but the market is based on money not truth so it's not a requirement. I'm on your side with this Ween, you can't dispute a first appearance, it is what it is. I constantly hear the Warlock argument, and sorry but FF 67 is his first appearance. FF66 is the first Cocoon. So many keep saying oh the Thor issue blah blah blah. You quote him, agree with him, and then go on to use three examples of " in story" comic book appearances. You are arguing Cameo VS Full, nothing close to what ween was talking about.

Usually, in the long run, the market susses out the right book. We'll see how X-Men 266/Ann 14 plays out. Until it starts being called what it really is, instead of the longest cameo in the history of comics, it will be tough. CGC and Overstreet, and nearly every comic database out there is doing the comic community a disservice calling Annual 14 a cameo, I think Overstreet actually changed it from Cameo to " minor appearance ( 5 pages ) " a few years ago. What the heck is that? Nobody wants to let go of 266. It's the cover. I guess also, so many people have money in 266, they don't want to pizz anyone off.

The question isn't "why is this valuable?" The answer is "because people want them and are willing to pay for them." There's no issue with that. The question is "why are people trying to redefine ads and previews as "first appearances"?" Exactly. If a preview or ad sells for more, that's great, but that's not what we are talking about. We are not talking about which book sells for more. We are talking about the term first appearance as it relates to comic books, and why people are trying to change what it means.

1 and 2. The debate over cameo and full appearance will never end. Yes the market pretty much decides which is more worthy of their money. Neither apply to this situation, as they are both " in story" appearances. 3.) Gobbledygook # 1 is an oddity, mostly because of how rare it is. It was touted as the 1st appearance for a LONG time, and not many people knew it was simply just an ad on the back cover. Once it was well known ( the internet) People's view on that book has changed. It's still a very sought after book, and yes its only an ad. TMNT collectors can and do go overboard sometimes. I can show you 10,000 ( probably more) examples of an " ad" or " preview" of a character that is worth much less than the" in story 1st", for every 1 example like Gobbledygook. 4.) DCP # 26 is not a preview. No matter what it says on the cover, it is not a preview. It is an original story, setting up issue # 1. It's a 1st in story appearance, not panels or pages " previewing" issue # 1. 5.) SDCC comics # 2 is not a magazine. It is a comic book, but, instead of one large story, there are a few 2-6 page stories, and a few pin-ups. The Hellboy story is original, and was created for this comic, and didn't appear anywhere else. The Market had always leaned toward Next Men 21 until this 4 page, earlier story came to light, and the market shifted appropriately. " The market decides" in general is true, but the market can also be uninformed, and or deceived.

Who are you talking to? The folks who think 'first appearance' is carved in stone as the literal meaning, and not the way it has become used in the comic collecting lexicon over 40 some years. In this hobby, first appearance correlates pretty poorly with the literal sense. (thumbs u I think...

Orrrrrr....some understand the use of the language, and don't see any need to change the language to accommodate people who want to change meanings for no valid reason, and the worst reason of all: personal gain. Nothing is "changing." There are simply people who don't understand what the term "first appearance" means, and/or want the definition of a "first appearance" to change so they can make money. There's no great sea change to redefine what "first appearance" means. Honest. And, if on the extremely remote chance that the idea of a "first appearance" being a PREVIEW gains ANY traction in the comics market, there will be a grand backlash by thinking, rational people... I doubt that. Remember the frenzy (chronicled in this very thread) over Superman Adventures #5? Was that not started over Livewire appearing in a single panel of a New 52 comic? She hasn't even appeared since Yet SA #5 is still a $30+ book on eBay. Maybe you'd get a clamor. What are you talking about? How does what you said, at all, relate to what you quoted. I'm totally confused.

He's out of his mind I hope this turns out to be reasonable (as I just got back a slab of this book). Considering three books all have this insert from that month, there is close to 500k copies of books with this insert, The books are common. The mini Sonic comic is the book to own. It came out first. impossible to find in NM or better. The stand alone newsstand copies that exist, whether they were torn out of the comics, or were actually handed out with pre-orders, don't matter because it has never been proven and they cannot be differentiated from each other.

If CGC changes their label from listing it as a simple " cameo of gambit" on the 2nd line to 1st full appearance of gambit on the top line, the market will change. There will be resistance, but it will change. I know some people dislike this thought , or disagree, but I feel that is what would happen.

Ive been a long time supporter of Xmen annual 14. It's a Full appearance ( CGC and Overstreet still call it a cameo, it is nothing close to that ) and it was released before UXmen # 266. The argument has always been, that the story in the annual takes place after # 266, and that #266 was intended to come out first. All of this may be true , but it doesn't matter. I read Xmen books at the time. Gambit was introduced for the first time in a story in Uncanny Xmen annual # 14. I read the book the day it was released, Well before I had my hands on #266, which didn't exist at the time. It aslo has amazing Adams artwork, as RMA has said. This is a case of a book that was wrongly considered a first appearance for over two decades and people not wanting to let go. People not wanting to agree because they are vested in #266 , and many collectors hate first appearances that do no have a cover appearance ( See Red Sonja )