G.A.tor

my last word on the subject (because we are all entitled to form our own opinions based on whatever criteria we choose) is that very few collectors will ague that tec 33 is not "very important" , etc... but the reasons folks collected tec 33 "first" (and tec 35 much later), are no longer primary reasons in our hobby (and this is not just my opinion, but evidenced and supported by the majority of the market collecting these issues)... this has been a 20+ year evolution that won't change any time soon... our market has evolved to the point that importance is sometimes overshadowed by other factors (such as cover, hype, scarcity, grade, value, etc)... now, back to some blueberry cake donuts and coke zero

How close would you place Tec #33 in terms of FMV to #35? I know that you have predicted a continued slump for #33 and that the guide should eventually catch-up by allowing books like #35 to be reflected better. Why do you think it is that the OSPG has continued to bump up Tec #33's value and keep it as the #2 Batman Tec while other books (such as #35) have continued to sell for greater multiples? That's a very good question... as mentioned, tec 33 still sells for over guide!, don't think anyone has ever said it has decreased in price relative to guide, so naturally, it is still increasin, right?...and has as long as I can remember....but because it was already artificially higher in the guide than current demand (relative to surrounding issues) would warrant, it will be increased at the minimum %, while the other issues are given high bumps to try to "true" up (as best as OSPG can), their values (thumbs u Right, I understand that. I guess the question (as I read it anyhow) seems to point to the need for continual bumping (even if it is at the minimum %) IF the OSPG wants to be an accurate, reliable source? But to be fair, I know that this is an issue ALL fields of comics experience from the OSPG. Do you suppose it is because Overstreet doesn't want to give the impression of a drop in demand by actually correcting the price on this book (which I think might mean a decreased/frozen percentage relative to the other Pre-Robin Tecs)? bob explained long ago why he raises (rarely lowers) prices in the guide at a slow and steady pace, even if the market is far evolved from it...it is "his" guide and he will continue ... but, we all know (those of us that collect certain books) what the real world value is...so, the guide should just be one small (and sometimes irrelevant outside of a starting point) part of the valuation equation... I really wish I could run the On line version of ospg

and that is the problem with the guide...it is just that, " guide" that is still primarily controlled by a few , that are not as "in touch" with the market on certain keys books as they should be... does anyone really think a 9.2 af15 is a 65,000??? etc...does anyone really think that doubling the guide value to 130K (where the book would still eclipse) will do any harm?...to continue to cite the guide as reality on key books, is counter production to reality

How close would you place Tec #33 in terms of FMV to #35? I know that you have predicted a continued slump for #33 and that the guide should eventually catch-up by allowing books like #35 to be reflected better. Why do you think it is that the OSPG has continued to bump up Tec #33's value and keep it as the #2 Batman Tec while other books (such as #35) have continued to sell for greater multiples? That's a very good question... as mentioned, tec 33 still sells for over guide!, don't think anyone has ever said it has decreased in price relative to guide, so naturally, it is still increasin, right?...and has as long as I can remember....but because it was already artificially higher in the guide than current demand (relative to surrounding issues) would warrant, it will be increased at the minimum %, while the other issues are given high bumps to try to "true" up (as best as OSPG can), their values (thumbs u But even if the OSPG continues to bump the values of Tec #33 and #35 at their current rate (meaning a greater % for #35), wouldn't it take forever for the two to reach an equivalent status? nope, I am hoping they are brought to equal in this year's guide or maybe by next, and exceed in next years (for 29 and 31...it will take bob 5+ years at current rate to get 35 to catch up)... but, it has been a 4-5 year process of getting the guide to reflect the "true market value"...

Haven't I been saying it's been the 2nd most valuable according to the guide; in which case I'd be correct? it is listed (at least through last year) as the second most valuable in the price guide, but because we all know it is not (not even close, to be honest, probably 40-50% behind in value to 29 and 31 and maybe 20% behind in value to 35), to continue to bring that point up is "not relevant" to "real world" valuation of the issues because overstreet doesn't correct the guide real world... if he did, it wouldn't be the 2nd highest in the guide, and wouldn't have been for years... so it is like citing an inaccurate source, that you know is inaccurate...it doesn't support your points, it hurts them (thumbs u

and we are all entitled to our opinions...the problem is that the market has OVERWHELMINGLY responded to the contrary, and thus, the values have moved accordingly (real world)

How close would you place Tec #33 in terms of FMV to #35? I know that you have predicted a continued slump for #33 and that the guide should eventually catch-up by allowing books like #35 to be reflected better. Why do you think it is that the OSPG has continued to bump up Tec #33's value and keep it as the #2 Batman Tec while other books (such as #35) have continued to sell for greater multiples? That's a very good question... Keep in mind of course that they are nowhere close to equivalent in the guide. Without it in front of me, I think Tec #33 is about 3X as valuable as Tec #35. So I'm still curious to see how close they are in terms of FMV because I've heard that Tec #35 goes for about 5X guide. What does Tec #33 go for, 2-3X guide unrestored? I'm not sure. about 1.5% guide (thumbs u tec 35, with the 17% increase is actually probably under 5x now (maybe dropped to about 4x)...and, depending on how the guide moves this year (I submitted a LOT of data to help correct the pricing deficiencies), the muliples will change again

How close would you place Tec #33 in terms of FMV to #35? I know that you have predicted a continued slump for #33 and that the guide should eventually catch-up by allowing books like #35 to be reflected better. Why do you think it is that the OSPG has continued to bump up Tec #33's value and keep it as the #2 Batman Tec while other books (such as #35) have continued to sell for greater multiples? That's a very good question... as mentioned, tec 33 still sells for over guide!, don't think anyone has ever said it has decreased in price relative to guide, so naturally, it is still increasin, right?...and has as long as I can remember....but because it was already artificially higher in the guide than current demand (relative to surrounding issues) would warrant, it will be increased at the minimum %, while the other issues are given high bumps to try to "true" up (as best as OSPG can), their values (thumbs u

How close would you place Tec #33 in terms of FMV to #35? I know that you have predicted a continued slump for #33 and that the guide should eventually catch-up by allowing books like #35 to be reflected better. Why do you think it is that the OSPG has continued to bump up Tec #33's value and keep it as the #2 Batman Tec while other books (such as #35) have continued to sell for greater multiples? I guess terminology has led to confusion... tec 33 is not in a "slump" ...I have said over and over what a great book it is... and there is still demand for the book, but it is so much over valued in most folks asking prices, relative to perceived demand, that the book "appears" to sell at a bargain compared to surrounding issues... to answer your question, overstreet pretty much bumps all tec's each year... what one has to pay attention to is the % from ospg 38 to 39, tec 33 was increased 5.5% or so across all grades (the minimum) from ospg 38 to 39, tec 29 was increased 8.5% or so across all grades from ospg 38 to 39, tec 31 was increased 10% or so across all grades from ospg 38 to 39, tec 35 was increased 17.5% or so across all grades... just bob's way of "correcting" guide prices... he does everything slowly and for the long term but, tec 33 has been #5 for years in terms of "real world value " ...everyone knows ospg is NOT an accurate source for valuation on pre robin tecs (or early actions etc)... so your continued "statement" about it being the 2nd most valuable is invalid and has been for years and years (thumbs u

all pre robin tecs with batman on the cover sell over guide...33 included... because 33 had been pushed up higher in the guider moons ago, it doesn't command the multiple that surrounding issues do, but I dont' ever recall seeing a tec 33 blue sell "under" guide..

Breakfast of Champions.

I just finished eating a blueberry cake donut and polished it off with a yummy coke zero

great books, love them all

I concur...I think I might have mentioned something similar in a post in another thread (about demand of 36)... I don't think it will overtake 33 in value any time soon (too much ground to make up both in overstreet and in the market in the short term) but it will overtake it in demand, if it hasn't already (thumbs u

it was indeed...problem is while tec 33 has been a holdover as second most valuable in the guide (overstreet is not going to reduce its value), it has been #5 in "real" value for years and years now (behind 27,29,31, and 35) and will continue as the value of those other issues take much higher leaps, than 33 "in the guide" ...so your "yet to catch up" only applies to the surrounding issues (thumbs u the majority of sales are raw because the majority of 33's seem to be restored, and restored cgc tec 33's do worse sales wise, than raw copies (strange but documented true)...not sure how much has to do with the story (which has been reprinted enough times folks don't need to read it in the original) 33 is cool, and I know you are so passionate about the 33, but you have to face reality, the cover is not as cool as 29 or 31 or 35 and likely won't see a as yet to be seen rise in demand (at least not until all the existing copies in the market dissapear...which are not likely until the prices come back in line with where they should be relative to surrounding copies)... I hate to sound like a broken record, but touche

tec 31 is still the "hot" pre robin tec...followed closely by tec 29... tec 35 has had more demand than supply going on 5+ years now, so I don't think it is any "hotter" today than it was then, just tougher to locate... tec 33 "had" its day...in fact, it had its decades...outside of 27, for mooon on top of moons, tec 33 was the 2nd most desirable tec... however, that was then and this is now... I find it highly unlikely that 33 will ever leap back over 29, 31, or even 35...in fact, lately, it appears 33 might have even fallen behind 36 in terms of demand relative to supply but that still doesn't diminish the fact that 33 is a great book, but its day has passed as the 2nd greatest (thumbs u

ok, keep in mind, that our perception of "scarcity" is based on what we see for sale in the market place (so this list will and does change periodically)... tec 31 is no more scarcer (in existing numbers) than say tec 30, but tec 31 is in so much more demand, that it appears to be sold/available "less often".... why? because when it is offered, it is generally snatched up quick! a book like tec 30 will often times sit for weeks or months unsold... and actually, tec 34 is a "tougher" non bat cover to locate than tec 30 (been far more copies of 30 in the market recently over the past 5-8 years than 34, for example)... so, my "scarce to common" scale is based on what is available in the market over time, and "how long" it is available in the market toughest: 28 next is 29...rarely offered, and when it is, gone in a hearbeat! next is 35...rarely offered, and when it is, gone in less than 2 heartbeats next is 34...actually the toughest non bat cover, but not a lot of demand except from run builders next is 30...2nd toughest non bat cover next is 31...simply too much demand relative to supply...but trust me, there are a LOT of existing copies next is 27...seems to be available as much (maybe a tad bit more) than 31 next is 36 next is 37 next is 33...the most available batman cover pre robin tec... last is tec 32, always seems to be copies available

I am still kicking myself for not buying the denver bat 1...I made a 55K offer post auction, thought for sure I would "get it" given that no one bought at 59K during the auction, and a day later someone did

1-actually, I have paid more for certain Extensively restored books, than guide value of the book in same unrestored grade (MMC46, Captain America 46 are a few examples)... so, it is not just slight and mod that can sell for more than unrestored, ext can too...just depends on the rarity of the book... heck, that ext restored pep 22 probably just sold for more than "unrestored" guide value... 2-as mentioned, some ext (high grade or not), will go well beyond 25%, but as a general rule, 25% is about right... the reasoning behind that can be seen in this example... let's say book A is a g/vg, restored a VF... in g/vg the book is worth $200, in VF, the book is worth $1000 as an ext VF, if someone pays $250 (25%) that is "about" what the pre resto price would have been+ some value of the restoration... now, this is a non specific generic example, but you get the point... 20 years ago, the example would have looked like this pre resto g/vg=200 restored to VF unrestored VF =1000 restored VF=600...it was a function of adding pre and post value and dividing by 2!

get a room already, you too

What about ? This beatyful Tec 35 with extensive work reaches an apparent grade of 3.5. But I have seen extensively restored GA books reach an apparent grade of 8.0 and as high as 8.5 ! But does this indicate that between two extensive plods such as those mentioned there can be 8-10 grade ticks (3.5 to 8.5) between the books *before* they were worked on? This is what puzzles me: If you choose to go extensive on a book why stop at a 3.5ish apparent grade when you (perhaps?!?) can have an apparent grade of 8.5 or 9.0? Or is it only *some* Ext. restored books that can go that high, while others can 'only' make it to 3.0-4.0 with ext restoe? And how big should the price difference be between an Ext 3.0 and an extensive 8.0 for instance ? Is there any price difference? Or is it just Extensive = one price for all copies no matter if their apparent are 3.0 or 8.0?? Sorry if I have derailed - I just keep on trying to understand this foggy restoe-theme in comics whenever I bump into something hard to understand. And restoe on the Classic Tecs will always be discussed I think. there are a ton of reasons some ext can only get to 3.5 and others 8.5... maybe the cover is so wrinkled and creased, that it is not visually apparent from the ouside (due to color touch, etc) but from the inside, looks really bad? maybe there is a huge piece replacement vs several small piece replacements... maybe it is quality of work, etc tons of reasons, but absolutely the condition of the book BEFORE resto leads itself to the main reason... so, a 3.5 ext vs a 8.5ext will have a huge price diff, just as a 3.5 vs a 8.5 will this is my rule of thumb, though it by no means applies to all books slight is generally 35-100%+ of unrestored FMV (depending on book) mod is generally 25-35% (though some books, even ext restored sell for more than unrestored, just depends on rarity) Ext is generally 15-25% (15% for lower grade ext and upto 25% of high grade ext)

all very cool rooms!

I think the last 6.5 I had moved in the 6K+ range, but I honestly don't remember

Nice! Wow...6K already for this puppy. Looks like the 7K price is achievable. Let's see...5.0 grade is a 80% price jump from 4.5, 6.0 is a 100% jump from 5.0, 7.0 is 50% jump from 6.0, 8.0 is 100% jump from 7.0. to be clear, the offer is pending cgc and it getting at least a 6.5...if only a 6.0, the offer will drop, but that doesn't mean I will sell it lower It's really difficult to score a 6.0+ and you even manage to get it in off-white pages. Just what if it came back as a 7.0....$9K. little chance...I figured it to be a 6.0, weak 6.5 prospect