fantastic_four

The embargo lifted and well over a hundred reviews appeared on Rotten Tomatoes fairly quickly. Current tally is 123 positive and 24 negative for 84% over a 7.5/10 quality score, which pretty much solidifies the critical response as it being a very good film but not as critically acclaimed as Force Awakens which was at 92% popularity with an 8.2/10 quality score. Metacritic's compiled quality-based reviews have it at 65/100 whereas Force Awakens garnered 81/100. So it's good, just not blow-your-mind good. A lot of the responses suggest that it's dark and brooding whereas all of the Lucas films and the Abrams film were cinematically upbeat.

I read the novel version of ESB before it came out...that was a pretty big spoiler. Spoiler understatement. Did not even know this existed at that point in time before the movie release. Props to you. How did it impact your movie experience? It was a long time ago, but I think it enhanced it. I distinctly remember reading it before the film was released, and when I just looked it up it looks like it came out roughly a month before the film did. I remember it making me tremendously excited to see what Yoda looked like. I also heard that he was going to be a muppet prior to release and was disappointed by that, but I really loved him once I saw the finished product. Obviously it spoiled the big reveal with Luke and Vader, but eh, it was a surprise when I read it. I don't really remember but I bet I spoiled it for some kids at school. I would've been in 4th or 5th grade at the time.

I read the novel version of ESB before it came out...that was a pretty big spoiler.

Review embargo lifts at 5PM today, so we'll see tonight.

I've always assumed they ripped off "Firefly" lead actor Nathan Fillion's likeness and name for the Nathan Drake character. Not sure why they wouldn't immediately jump on him for the part.

Agreed, humanity's interaction with artificial intelligence is compelling, but this series goes about that central theme in a way too roundabout manner. In fact, I'm not sure that is the central theme in the producer's minds. What I'm not sure of is whether any theme was MORE central to Jonathan Nolan's intent with the show than the morality issues surrounding robotic sentience. It was interlaced throughout the story, from Arnold's reason for suicide, to Maeve's entire narrative, to the way the Westworld guests were shown as brutal and uncaring as compared to the androids, to the clinical and uncaring way that they showed the Westworld technicians always dealt with the androids aside from the Asian guy who helped Maeve escape (who I'm guessing was an android himself). The complexity of issues surrounding artificial sentience and mankind's underdeveloped understanding of the breadth of its value IS the show. What was particularly well-done by Nolan was the way that he almost always made you root for the androids, not the humans, to force the audience to question their perception of androids as deserving of respect. Who were the heroes? Dolores, Bernard/Arnold, Teddy, and to a lesser extent, Maeve and her two murderous cohorts. Who were the villains? The humans--virtually all of them aside from Arnold who apparently sacrificed himself for them, although by the story's design we're unsure of what to think about Anthony Hopkins's Ford character. Even the one human character we're meant to like, William, is eventually shown to have grown cold and uncaring about the robotic sentience he was once entranced by in the form of Dolores.

Given that ideas about how humans should treat sentient artificial intelligence are largely uninformed and crude, the show's central theme isn't nothing. I view artificial sentience about like I view genetic engineering--you shouldn't monkey with it without being EXTREMELY careful. Like about as extraordinarily careful as rocket scientists have to be in landing drones on Mars. It's immoral to create sentience and then coldly turn it off like it's a toaster or a light switch.

In case anyone wasn't aware, the show was created and written by Jonathan Nolan, Christopher Nolan's little brother pictured at right below. Since he's said he's already mapped out at least three seasons of the show and is responsible for writing quality works like Memento, The Prestige, The Dark Knight, and The Dark Knight Rises, I've got faith in him.

I used it too. Perfect timing, since Westworld S1 is done. And if you really want to max out your mileage, I would suggest to watch The Leftovers S1 & S2. If you liked LOST at all (heck, even if you didn't), you'll like it a lot. I liked it even more than Westworld. Seconded, the Leftovers us a fantastic show, can't wait for season 3 All I want to do after two seasons of that show is punch every single member of the Guilty Remnant square in the jaw. I'm a fan of Damon Lindelof's other works like Lost and Prometheus, but I hate the Leftovers. It's all of the mystery of Lost or the X-Files with very little of the sci-fi exploration and intrigue. It's a show where you will never understand the motivations for why many or most of the characters do outlandish mess, and you will NEVER understand why the people disappeared since Lindelof has explicitly said that like the book's author the show will never explain it. Too much spiritual/religious fantasy, too little sci-fi for me in that show. Westworld is a show with mysteries that have answers. The Leftovers is for people who want mysteries without answers. The fantastic theme song for season two by cutie-pie singer Iris DeMent captures the idea of the show perfectly.

Why would she willingly go back to a place where she would surely be deactivated/killed for the havoc and death she left behind her?

A) He's an android, not a clone. B) Not sure, but I'm leaning towards program since she has every reason to think they'll kill her if she goes back, so why would she go back unless her programming is making it happen? C) No real idea. I saw no compelling evidence it was an android Ford that died, but who knows, maybe it was. As far as that goes it could have been an android Arnold who died, too. Hard to know in this show if any death is a real person who died. D) Looks like it, not sure E) Huh? He's William. He explicitly said he was. F) Yep.

Quick question--that folder name in the code says W.Arnold. Did we ever hear Arnold's full name? I don't even know if it's his first or last name since it's commonly used as either, although I assume it's a last name since they usually referred to each other formally with last names in the show since they were all professional colleagues. I definitely don't remember hearing what his first name was and if it started with a W.

Actually I guess I know what you're thinking--it's the path to a source library listed in the code that reads "WW/libs/hidden/W.Arnold" in one line and a slight variant of that in another. Maybe, but not at all definitive. It crossed my mind when I first saw it, but as a software developer myself I'm well aware that code I write--or in this case folders I create--usually outlive me, which in most people's cases means that it outlives my stay with a company, not my lifespan as is the case here with Arnold. The fact that it's in folders with his name on it does strongly suggest it's experimental/temporary code that Arnold himself started, and yes, possibly programmed as we see here in that finale, but if he did it, you'd have to think he's still alive--either in body or embedded in Bernard's consciousness. But Ford may have discovered code from Arnold in those folders, edited it, and just left it in the same folders he found it. Did they ever identify any programmers at Westworld other than Ford and Bernard/Arnold? I don't recall any. Or did Bernard refer to "his team" a few times? I can't remember now.

What makes you say that?

This quote from Nolan in that article has me a bit puzzled: I thought we learned that William/Man in Black was the head of Delos and that his agenda was to make the game more real by making the hosts sentient. But I suppose that's just his personal agenda and not the company's. So what is it? I'd guess it's also android sentience, possibly for the purpose of making them better servants/slaves to serve a wide range of purposes.

How do we know they're immortal? They don't age, but they most likely break down. Even if Ford teaches them to procreate there aren't enough of them to survive the war Ford just started with humanity. His goal has to be something other than making Westworld an android-only park because that just doesn't seem sustainable given what happened in that finale. Fulfilling Arnold's goal of having the park shut down seems more likely, but since we know there's a second season, I suppose we know THAT'S not it, either.

Sexy out of it too, which is how she spent tons of time on-screen.

I imagine the truth about Maeve's choice depends upon Ford's purpose. What was that purpose? The surface-level clues the show dropped were that Ford was trying to return Westworld's control to the hosts. However, that's not sustainably realistic. They can't procreate, they can't fix themselves, and since they just shot up a butt-ton of humans, people will absolutely, positively be coming to shut the place down. So was his purpose to reverse his earlier action of saving the park from Arnold's attempt to shut it down and fulfill his original purpose now? Or is it something else? If his goal was to shut the park down, then it doesn't make sense to leave Maeve's will up to herself. Since she decided to stay in the park she will presumably get shut down along with the rest of the hosts. It also doesn't make sense for her to even choose to stay--she knows there will be retribution within the park for what she did, so choosing to stay means she's choosing to die.

Here's a larger, clearer view of the code aside from Bernard's hand being in the way of some of it. Usually capital letters in programming languages don't mean anything particularly different from lowercase versions of the same statements unless it's a case-sensitive language, but impossible to say either way for whatever language this is.

When I saw the Samurai World guys, the first thought that came into my head was that the tech helping Maeve was almost certainly a host programmed by Ford to help her get out and that we were about to find it out for sure. They never revealed it but I still think he is; not much else explains why he was so helpful even after Maeve slashed that guy's throat and later when the hosts started murdering the hell out of everyone.

Yea I need to see a screenshot of that, I forget. Just searched around for one but couldn't find it.

That seemed unfinished to me as well. I have no fully viable guess yet as to what her death was about.

To remind her that a real android that is the daughter from her memory actually is in the park.

My guesses are almost the same as yours, so yes, yes, and yes, but I lean towards Maeve deciding to stay as being programming since everything Bernard says was programmed did in fact happen.

I just got done watching the finale within the hour; had it recorded on my phone and watched it at lunch today. 1) I don't think we have enough to know, but I'm guessing it was a Ford lookalike android. 2) Blood squirted everywhere which means shot to me. But that shot wasn't in a necessarily fatal location so we don't know if he made it or not; I'm guessing he did due to the shot placement. 3) Ford, or someone else we haven't seen yet. Arnold is dead and unless I missed something we haven't seen evidence he isn't.