miraclemet

...here's a thought... if you spend two weeks telling someone you are waiting for more Priority Boxes from USPS before shipping out a package... you should probably use a priority box when you finally get around to shipping the book. (and no I'm not naming names, cause it just isn't worth it)

Is that a Gryffindor tie? Nice catch, I didnt even notice. The Morning Glories school uniform is a solid maroon tie.. Eisma might be a Potter reader..

Two wraparound covers came in the mail today. Both are SS, one is a sketch... And I really like this Eisma not to sexy Emma Frost putting the voodoo on Casey from Morning Glories.

Two wraparound covers came in the mail today. Both are SS, one is a sketch... And I really like this Eisma not to sexy Emma Frost putting the voodoo on Casey from Morning Glories.

So here's my plan. 1. find out the bank that Ditko banks at. 2. Take a job at the bank 3. stalk his account and wait for him to submit a check, or have a check returned that he wrote. 4. take the checks, quit the job, become a legend. Check and mate.

I dont think you are understanding what I am driving for. Sure there are exceptions, but you start from the standard otherwise every order is a unique one off leaving every customer guessing as to what to expect. All Im pushing for is an outline of what items need to be addressed in each Sig/Sketch Op so that buyers know what they are getting into from the outset. Many facilitators already do this in some fashion, but by having a standard and being uniform we ensure that all Ops start with the same baseline of information. Similarly a stated expectation protects the Facilitator from crazy post-purchase requests from the buyer (or at least gives the facilitator the freedom to say no and point back to the Ops stated deliverables). My goal is a process that protects both sides, or at least makes for an up-front set of expectations for both parties.

Hear you on these, and thank you for accepting the process as it stands. No process is perfect, but it functions decently to help maintain the overall community here. Good countermeasure on #3 so that the issue does not re-occur in the future. What is the higher standard? Are you referring to the CGC standard (I dont know what it is, so I dont know what it is higher than). I do think a standard needs to be stated and adhered to over in the Signature Room forum for the Event Ops. And while you are correct there are many facilitators, not all facilitators have access to the same Cons and same artists, so its not as simple (sometimes) as just taking ones business elsewhere.

All fair points Joey. 1. I think the facilitators (and the customers who pay for the sketches) are at the mercy of the artist, so it is tough to push requirements regarding payment. Many artists have gotten screwed doing work on spec and never getting a paycheck (or spending lots of their own time running after customers, publishers, etc to get paid). So I understand their hesitancy to take on work with out upfront payment. Customers get to decide if they are ok with that or not (Jim Lee wants upfront? No one complains cause they are desperate for a sketch, No-name artist wants upfront? Complaints) 2. I do think Facilitator communication should be a stated standard and be PL worthy if a facilitator is not meeting the stated expectation. If a facilitator says "there will be no updates on status until all books are returned, I will not respond to PMs" then the expectation is set, and the buyers can decide if thats ok for their money, and if not, they can not participate. To me the point is we need to tell Facilitators what expectations need to be set: Payment options Timelines for shipping once the artist is done with the book Communication standards

You are right Branget: 3) Being Placed On The PL b) If the accused responds in the Probation Discussion Thread and it is determined the conditions of the transaction was not met, they will be added to the PL. and then subsequently: 4) Removal From The PL b) If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, the accused will be removed from the PL.

I've opened a thread over in the Signature Forum here. I've asked if there are any documented SS Op standards that Facilitators are all held to or should be held to (a'la our simple marketplace rules). We'll see what that gets... maybe I'm poking a bee hive... maybe I'll never be able to get a book signed via a facilitator again... we'll see....

Does this happen? I've never seen someone post an in a SS op offering and have it rescinded by the facilitator, but maybe it happens behind the scenes so the facilitator doesnt get in trouble for favoritism? I could understand a facilitator turning down an from someone in the past who did not pay on time, but to me this sounds like a simple application of the Probation list, and the SS facilitators should just use the nomination/resolution process and then have a rule in their op that anyone who's been nominated by them for the PL due to non-payment is not eligible. Otherwise anyones should be good. Now if we are talking about non-Events (i.e. sig facilitation at a con, sketch pickup/submission etc) I could see how someone would not want to lose the good graces of the facilitator for future help with submissions, but again it sounds like if a facilitator was caught turning down a customer (for any reason other than previous payment problems), CGC would not be happy about that....

Decoupling this from the GoT, and just thinking about the SS offerings in general (sketch/signing ops): 1. If people were afraid of being blacklisted for "causing trouble" during an offering, I'm not sure how they could actually be affected. It appears (and I've never actually participated in a signing/sketch offering via the SS board, but I've watched them occur over the years) that when a facilitator posts an event it's a simple "first come, first serve" offering. Anyone posting a while there is still a slot, gets a place in the event. How would the retribution occur? The only type of retribution I could see would be slotting the "troublemaker" as the last comission done. 2. I have seen past facilitators be very explicit and stern about the communication path with the artists needing to go thru them. I understand the need for it. I too am curious about this "going behind the back". Was it a communication with the artist regarding his sketch thru the event, or was it the OP contacting the artist for an independent commission. Obviously the facilitators (in most cases) dont have exclusive rights to the artist (who takes commissions and other work not relating to CGC SS). So yes, I think some clarification on this would be helpful. 3. While SS events happen outside of the "marketplace" forum shouldn't they be held to the same marketplace rules? And should there be SS event rules that further set expectations for aspects of the SS experience that fall outside of a normal buy/sell transaction? I know the timelines on these events are impossible to nail down because they are at the discretion of the artist, but certainly when the books are returned to the facilitator there can be a requirement that SS facilitators state their intended shipping policy (weekly shipping trips, monthly, one time only, etc).

and BB I'm not faulting you here, but since the transaction fell off both of your radars until 1/18 (when you rediscovered it, and reminded him of it), is it fair to use that as the 30 day timer? It would avoid his "argument" that it's not his fault he forgot and you forgot too so blah blah... (again, he's in the wrong here, but using the 1/18 date keeps the whole "forgetting" part of this out of the PL argument) So Next week nominate him free and clear based on the 1/18 statement of ammount due, and then send him the PL nomination notice email... (though there's nothing saying you cant go ahead and tell him that's your plan now to try and move things forward faster ) I can see the argument for using the 9/11 invoice date, I'm just saying using the 1/18 makes for an easier case.

He responded: He didn't bump the original thread but the "4 months" comment enabled to zero in on the original thread. I then posted this in the original PM thread: From 1/18/13 which was read, not replied to: I sent him this message on 2/5: If anyone is looking for Incredible Hulk 11 - 15 LMK So on 1/18 both of you were aware that there was an outstanding balance due. Question to those with more PL experience: Would the 30 day window (for him to pay) start on 1/18 when you sent him the full $197 invoice, or way back on 9/11 when the invoice was for 2 books (the hulk 11 & 12, am I reading your timeline correctly?) If its the 1/18 date then he still has a few days to make right before being eligible for nomination. If its the 9/11 date, then he's eligible based on whatever was on that 9/11 invoice.

Those not OK with it are not respected? So those that play by your rules are cool, those that don't bend to your shipping whims are not? Here's how I think you ensure people dont have second thoughts about your future events. If you know your proclivity is to sit on books until all are returned, STATE THAT IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT. Set the expectation and no one will be disappointed and (and Im saying this for your benefit, cause I do hope your future events run smoothly with 100% satisfaction) you cover yourself to if someone comes asking for their book early. Easy enough statement to make in your event: No Books will be shipped untill ALL books from this event have been returned by CGC to me. Or if you are going to hold books until all of their books from all events have been returned to you, SAY THAT. Of course that means that fast-track is pointless unless they all do it. Just trying to help future transactions not have the possibility of this reoccurring.

technically he did say this: Not quite a Mea Culpa, but at least he see he was at fault for not shipping a book that was paid for. Of course you'd have to wade thru lots of other responses from him to sift out that little nugget. But it's in there.

Thanks GoT. I think all thats left is that B767293 confirm all this and that this means he's rescinding his PL nomination based on this equitable end. This is the CGC Boards not Ebay. If you are going to buy from someone look up their reputation / youtube videos / past posts and you'll get a pretty good idea of who someone is. Now in the future people will know how long Godofthunder takes to ship. Which btw, I don't think is all that long considering he's doing 1 of a kind opps. You're right this is not eBay. It should be better. And we should strive to a higher standard You are right buyers should look up sellers. One of those place to look them up is the Probation List. Thats why its here. I dont care if its 1 of a kind opps, or the 900th person selling their Saga books. If you have the books and the person's paid for the books, you should ship the books in a reasonable timeframe baring some catastrophic circumstances (which dont appear to have occured here). 2 months holding a book when it's been requested to ship is a long time whether its an Action 1, or a sketch.

Thanks GoT. I think all thats left is that B767293 confirm all this and that this means he's rescinding his PL nomination based on this equitable end.

When I think of Foolkiller, or Dale Roberts keeping hundreds of orders and thousands of books straight, and being able to get shipments out in a timely and accurate manner it makes me appreciate them (and the other volume guys) that much more.

Obviously its SS facilitators cant promise delivery times, since they dont control CGC return rates, BUT they should (as part of the buying/selling community here) be held to ship books out in a reasonable time frame once they are in hand. Sure its easier to just make 1 trip to the PO, but 1 weekly trip should be a reasonable goal and keep the facilitators out of the problem of having dozens of slabs from multiple signings all getting jumbled up. Likewise, they could always set the expectation on the outset by saying NO books will be shipped out until ALL books from the event have been returned to the facilitator. That way everyone knows what they are getting into from the outset. And maybe GoT set that expectation. I dont know. I think someone else posed the question earlier to GoT but got no response regarding expectations.

Just trying to get caught on this after trying to help the OP understand the use of the Probation List process. Are you referring to this thread from 11: 48 this morning, where you asked your buyers from 4 different sketch ops you offered to let you know who bought how much and to post where to ship it to? I wasnt sure if you were referring to something different... Thats the one he was supposed to read before he PMed you today and before he brought it up in the marketplace discussion forum yesterday? If so I dont know how it relates. I didnt see anything in your post stating when books would be shipped, or apologizing for delays (if they are even delayed, I dont know), just asking people to do some administrative work to help you sort out the various books that you facilitated submissions for. Do I have the wrong thread?

So what "procedure" follows in order to place this facilitator on probation? Sure I might get my sketch eventually, or maybe he'll just provide the refund I already asked for. It's just a pity that something like this is allowed to happen to someone with such reputation. And like I previously said, this guy is still posting comments & ignoring PMs. Starting sketch ops and sales thread, completely ignoring sketches he need to ship first. I know I'm not the only one waiting for their sketch, but coz of this guy's status in the boards, a lot are afraid to voice their concern. I hope you guys figure out a way to change some policy weeding such facilitators. And I'd be explicit in how the Nominee can "right the situation". Sounds like you are giving him two reasonable avenues to make it right 1) Ship the books (with a tracking number provided by a certain date) 2) Refund money in full (via paypal by date) or by check (with tracking number by date). So he then remains on the PL until he resolves it in one of those methods.

Then I say PM him that he's been nominated for the Probation List, and follow the procedure from there. Sounds like he's eligible based on him saying he had the book in the December PM. And I'd be very factual about it all. Your expectation was that books would ship once he had them. He confirmed on Dec 20 that he had them. It has been 30+ days since. Thus you are nominating him for PL.

Applying this rule: 1) The 30-Day Rule a) If a transaction between board members is not completed within 30 days, the offended party may submit the offender's name for inclusion to the HOS/Probation List (hereafter called the PL) then I'd say 30 days from his PM stating he'll mail it he's PL eligible. Has it been 30 days?

So I'm enjoying the SS Trade weekend (even though I havent pulled a trade). Would something like that ever work for general slabbed books? We could run it a'la the VCC (traders each have their one post to show books they are willing to trade, they can list books they are interested in and so on).... Would it be of enough interest to try and do something like this?