MrWeen

So then the narrative for their first appearance REALLY matters. Thanks. Seems more like there is no "official" first appearance to me due to lack of an official team name. Free for all, I guess. Again, personally as an end-user/buyer/collector, my choice is GCS #1. I think you know where I stand In this case I can't help but choose the narrative over the logo. Personally, GCS #1 wins me over on the narrative as well. They've worked together multiple times but GCS #1 is where they decide to officially team up. I'd be happy to own both.

So then the narrative for their first appearance REALLY matters. Thanks. Says the Minister of Disinformation . . . Ah name calling....the last bastion of a man without an argument Divad I thought you of all people actually read the comics?

So then the narrative for their first appearance REALLY matters. Thanks. Seems more like there is no "official" first appearance to me due to lack of an official team name. Free for all, I guess. Again, personally as an end-user/buyer/collector, my choice is GCS #1. I think you know where I stand In this case I can't help but choose the narrative over the logo.

So then the narrative for their first appearance REALLY matters. Thanks.

Long term hold unless you need the money. It appears they used a vile of Logan's blood to create her. Any love for Wolverine 80 coming? You know that's a good question and tough call as I've read a few times over the last 6 months or so that Quesada has stated the connection was not planned on; as in not on purpose. I'm not sure if he is saying there is no official relation, OR he didn't plan for it to be but since the vial IS labeled X-23 and Laura Kinney IS codenamed X-23 it stands. I don't have either issue but would love to get a minty copy of NYX #3 for investment comic collection and a mid grade for PC if I the pric Yea I wouldn't say it's a first appearance at all but the shot of Essex Corp with the vile at the end of Apocalypse might give the issue some validity.

Nah. Good info, much appreciated.

No Legend? That book is really good!

Long term hold unless you need the money. It appears they used a vile of Logan's blood to create her. Any love for Wolverine 80 coming?

I fixed it for you! Catwoman #89 - first time Harley, Ivy and Catwoman appear as an unnamed team ( unrelated to Dini's Gotham City Sirens ) Detective Comics #850 - Gotham Sirens origin, 1st appearance of Dini's Gotham Sirens team ( unnamed ) GCS #1 - 1st comic titled Gotham City Sirens , first appearance of GCS logo on a comic cover ( Not named in story )

Well said.

A group with long-term organization. I'm not sure this is accurate, even ignoring the many months between 'Tec 850 and GCS 1. "My first step was calling in favors from old friends." Maybe a team-up, certainly not a team. You don't think there's any implication there about how Slam heard about what happened? They all "simply aid Catwoman" using their specific abilities. Yes, people should read comics rather than speculating on unconnected BS. " unconnected BS" -Really. Are you sure you want to stand by that statement? the money directly connects the two issues and while there was some time that occurred between the two comics it actually feels like the time between the release of tec850 and GCS 1, a few months. A team-up but not a team? WTF are you talking about, They take their cues directly from Catwoman, including a " hands on " approach meaning Catwoman aids Harley in the theft. I think you just like arguing for the sake of it. Claiming that it's unconnected BS is pretty weak. They are obviously connected no matter what spin you try to put on it. Look, if it was written by someone other than the damn creator of the Sirens I would still disagree but there would be less of an argument from me. What do YOU think Dini would say? After all he wrote both comics.

Since when are they the authority? They often get it wrong! In other news.... Someone got a good deal! http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAMORA-2-1-25-VARIANT-COVER-BY-FRANCESCO-MATTINA-/201781264458?hash=item2efb19c04a:g:UPoAAOSwEzxYdsVq

You actually haven't read Tec 850, have you? The main argument against any other book other than GCS 1 as their 1st appearance is in GCS 1 when Catwoman says exactly this to Ivy and Harley: "You know, the THREE of us have been living on the edge way too long. When we're not running from the police, we're fending off some costumed whack-job. Gotham is worse than ever. That gives us a choice -- we can get out, or BAND TOGETHER." Now think about this: if they were an actual team at any point before GCS 1, then why would Catwoman suggest they band together (as a team) again if they already were a team? Makes no sense. Not to mention the story arc of issue is called "Union." This seems pretty clear. It's certainly much clearer than the pumping of unrelated books by everybody else and their mothers. Read the 6 panel page from tec850 and get back to me.

I think we can have an argument without the insults or false accusations. What do you think? your comments continue to make me think that you simply hate cbsi and it's blinding you to the facts concerning tec850. you continue to say it's bunk but refuse to dispute the evidence to the contrary. Again, put your feelings about cbsi aside and read my post about the panels or maybe ask Dini?

You know I visit this thread and you can address me directly, right? Perhaps you could point out where I used a false narrative and empty, vague reasoning to sell copies of Catwoman 89. Perhaps you could point out where I cleared out eBay of copies of Catwoman 89 prior to mentioning it, in order to give evidence of its rarity, low print run, and heating up status. But I did none of those things, because it isn't necessary if the book actually has any merit. Am I currently selling copies of Catwoman 89? Of course I am. But that is the result of me doing my own research (which you at CBSI always tell your readers to do after screwing up your spec picks that go south) after the interest in Tec 850. Because you know the market usually chases multiple books in regards to 1st appearances. If you can somehow explain to me how a book that features this page cannot be construed as a first appearance then your cries of pump and dump may have some legitimacy to them. Discussing a book and then selling a book on those merits is not the same thing as pumping and dumping. I know the distinction has been made clear to you many times, but time is a flat circle and here we are again. Is there any doubt that if I posted the Catwoman 89 panels anonymously on CBSI first that the post would get its own article on comicbookinvest, a place in the top 10 list, and be reposted here by your members to get the hype train rolling? Cool page and it's a Harley book to own for sure but it has nothing to do with Sirens and if it's a d dream it's even less important. The movie isn't called Harley, Ivy and Catwoman. If it were then this might be the book to own and all Sirens books/tec850 would be irrelevant.

You actually haven't read Tec 850, have you? I have read it. So story doesn't matter? Is that what you are saying? No story does matter, you are absolutely correct there, I will say Tec 850 is an important Sirens key book that does lead in to GCS but it's not their 1st appearance. We should be focusing on the plot line of the Sirens movie as that is where other specs lie. I 100% Agree with Ween because I have read the whole arc, and there would be NO Sirens series without what happened in Detective Comics first. Tec 850 is Cameo + Origin of Sirens and the only reason why these specific people are against it, is because CBSI broke the spec, and these guys all missed the opportunity to pick up copies/or are just continuing their stupid witch hunt against a spec site that does better than any other when it comes to finger on the market pulse. I've asked everyone of these loudmouth trolls for their ebay names, and they all refused because they are likely hiding something. They were PM'd to discuss, and they replied with rhetoric that cannot be backed up (as usual) and left the conversations. Catwoman 89 gives there strengths and announces them as a team ! In 2001 ! This is where the Idea of them as a team came from FIRST! All of the Ebay listings and the general pump on this book is incorrect and dishonest ! Your wrong as well, the story does not matter in this case what matters is there first appearance as a team ! keep on keeping on autobot ! If we asked Dini he would sort this all out real fast and I have a feeling his idea for Sirens had nothing to do with Catwoman 89.

You actually haven't read Tec 850, have you? The main argument against any other book other than GCS 1 as their 1st appearance is in GCS 1 when Catwoman says exactly this to Ivy and Harley: "You know, the THREE of us have been living on the edge way too long. When we're not running from the police, we're fending off some costumed whack-job. Gotham is worse than ever. That gives us a choice -- we can get out, or BAND TOGETHER." Now think about this: if they were an actual team at any point before GCS 1, then why would Catwoman suggest they band together (as a team) again if they already were a team? Makes no sense. Not to mention the story arc of issue is called "Union." Uh They are a team... GCS doesn't get made by DC without the events that occur at the end of Tec850. By the way, how are they not a team or a "union" when they steal Hush's money as a team? This page is narrated by Catwoman as she describes herself, Holly, Harley and Ivy all working to acquire Hush's vast fortune under her direction. If that's not a team what is? GCS 1 picks up where this narrative leaves off. How are they not a team here. And before I hear thoughts about Oracle, Holly or Slam, if you read the page Slam acts on his own, independent of the team, Holly quits after this if I remember correctly from GCS 1 and Oracle simply aids Catwoman at the start of her plan and is not actually part of the team members who are directed by Catwoman. Also we need to remember that the film will probably take liberties with all the source material, we don't know who will be in the film or on the team outside of Harley, Catwoman and Ivy. But what is important is that this page is the formation of the team which is expanded upon later in the series. Oh and Tec850 is written b y Dini, same guy who wrote GCS. This book is the origin of and first appearance of the Sirens as written by the Sirens creator. The only thing missing is the name Sirens which they don't even use in issue 1 of the series. This book is the origin of the Sirens and was overlooked by everyone except CBSI. Many here dislike their success and friendly forums so they try to discredit their work and make false accusations about it's friends and partners. I don't care if the haters here give them credit when it's due but we all seem to love comics. Because of that the posters here who dislike CBSI should put that hate aside and simply READ THE COMIC and then be honest about it's narrative and importance.

You actually haven't read Tec 850, have you? I have read it. So story doesn't matter? Is that what you are saying? No story does matter, you are absolutely correct there, I will say Tec 850 is an important Sirens key book that does lead in to GCS but it's not their 1st appearance. We should be focusing on the plot line of the Sirens movie as that is where other specs lie. I 100% Agree with Ween because I have read the whole arc, and there would be NO Sirens series without what happened in Detective Comics first. Tec 850 is Cameo + Origin of Sirens and the only reason why these specific people are against it, is because CBSI broke the spec, and these guys all missed the opportunity to pick up copies/or are just continuing their stupid witch hunt against a spec site that does better than any other when it comes to finger on the market pulse. I've asked everyone of these loudmouth trolls for their ebay names, and they all refused because they are likely hiding something. They were PM'd to discuss, and they replied with rhetoric that cannot be backed up (as usual) and left the conversations. I am not surprised.

You actually haven't read Tec 850, have you? I have read it. So story doesn't matter? Is that what you are saying?

Please look at the listings for before and after.... 'FIRST APPEARANCE OF THE GCS" If you cant agree that the pump was on then ....... whatever. Ween I am usually entertained by your passion for speculation but your defense on this one is WEAK ! No one really argued against tec850 until today. It was mentioned here some time ago. No one hear seemed to dispute ( to my recollection ). The pump and dump thing just comes off poorly without proof that that's their game and to really pump this up you would have to post a lot. All I'm trying to say is read the book and then read GCS 1. It's a straight up next step in the story. It's basically the freakin' origin of the team! I'll let the first appearance thing get argued by others, I've made my point on it. I don't know if the market will change but I hope it continues to get the love, if not as a first then as a pretty darn important Sirens key. I'm going to have to buy one sometime thanks to the sneaky Harley appearance anyway!

All good points my friend.

But you are still gonna list em' right Just list them as a key Sirens book that predates Sirens 1 but it's not a first appearance and then you can make that cash and still sleep at night!

More accusations I don't own a single copy and even if I did it's still selling well right this minute. For the last time...without tec850 there's no Sirens.

Don't know what you are talking about.... you don't sell comics? seriously tired of trolls on this thread... First off, I'm not trolling whatsoever. What exactly do you mean when you say you don't know what I'm talking about? It's pretty simple. They literally pumped up Detective Comics #850 as the 1st appearance of Gotham City Sirens. Before Topher posted a thread on CBSI, it was easily found online and ebay for $1-3 a copy. Then he and Trey pumped it up around the clock for days on end, it vanished from ebay and now sells for $30+ a copy based on a false labeling of 1st appearance of Gotham City Sirens, a label they single-handedly created. Trey even said on their board, as well as the podcast, that this was one of the specs of the year. Well here we are now finding out there are at least 2 other books that are absolutely before TEC850 with the Gotham City Sirens together. Oh, and what does me selling or not selling books have to do with anything I posted? You sir are a grade A insufficiently_thoughtful_person. The post for tec 850 was made well before Trey's post about the so called " spec of the year" and it was one post in a G+ group. Trey posted about it some time after. If you are claiming that he pump and dumped 850 you better have some proof sir. Also show me where they pumped it around the clock. The reason it's the first appearance is pretty clear. The money stolen from Hush leads right into issue 1 of Sirens. Any other appearance by the three might be cool to own but has nothing to do with the Sirens.. I dare anyone here to find a single book where the narrative from GCS is in a book that predates issue 1 of GCS. Unless you can do that I would say Tec 850 is the winner. Topher made the post about TEC850 on December 14th. Trey ABSOLUTELY talked about Topher's pick of TEC850 as one of the specs of the year on his podcast. It's really simple. The first time all 3 are seen together in a comic book is Batman Adventures 12. The first time all 3 are shown together on a cover is Harley Quinn volume 1 #3. The first time all 3 are together as the Sirens (and named the Sirens on the cover) is Gotham City Sirens #1. So the true 1st appearance of Harley, Ivy and Catwoman as the Sirens is Gotham City Sirens #1. Put any problem you have with CBSI aside and explain to me how the narrative is not important. 850 leads directly into GCS 1. This is all I am asking. If seeing the Sirens name in print on a cover is all you need, I have a book that predates issue 1 of Sirens. But Tec850 predates them both. And don't forget to show some proof as to how they pumped it around the clock. I think you are also confused as to what Pump and Dump means. They would have to be selling these books after all this so called " around the clock " pushing of the book. Can you prove that they do that? Again please explain to me how the narrative from tec850 does not constitute their first as the Sirens. I don't have any issues with cbsi or the people there, and by the way you are coming at me and defending misinformation spread by Topher and their podcast, then I can only assume you are an admin at cbsi or a close friend to an admin there. If you continue to say Detective Comics 850 is the 1st appearance of the Sirens, you and anyone on their/your board is deliberately spreading bunk information and people should all be speaking up. Making the quote "spec of the year" numerous times and chest thumping about the "discovery" without any official confirmation from any accepted authority (and cBSi is by far not an accepted authority when it comes to deciding key moments in comics) saying that they appear 1st anywhere else besides GCS # 1 (which the story of the 1st issue is called "Union" as in they unite as an official team) is spreading misinformation and misleading thousands of people. All the while making healthy profits of all the cheap copies King Pump and Chumps scooped up in dollar bins while pumping the ever living doody out of Tec 850 at any chance they could onsite, podcast, site forums, and g+community. Its things like this that make them more and more irrelevant and the equivalent of shill site. Unfortunately cBSi could be so much more with a completely different inner-circle. When any book other than Tec 850 is confirmed as their 1st appearance, the walk back from cBSi is going to be hilarious. The "we didn't advise anyone to go out and buy it without doing their own research" schpeel will be put out in an article or statement on the g+ group. That's their out on everything especially on the g+ group where Trey specifically says don't ask for advice.....but then proceeds to pump out "advice" articles and allow mods to make statements on books which is thinly veiled advice. Funny how the mods can can do that even though its "against the rules." Oh that's right, Trey tells them what to talk about and put in articles. Conflict of interest much? All of that is readily found from King Pumps keyboard in HIS Top 10 comments section from 12/3/2016. Unless he deleted them like he has in past. If he did I have screenshots anyways. Find me one book that leads directly into GCS 1. Please. The lead in is NOT the 1st appearance of the Gotham City Sirens. Argue all you want, it doesn't change the facts. The 1st appearance of the Gotham City Sirens is Gotham City Sirens #1. OK so it's not the first appearance but it is central to the formation of the team and all the team members are represented? Oh and then there's the market deciding thing. But wait Trey convinced the whole market to buy this book with a few posts in a group consisting of a few thousand and a podcast? If that's true I might be inclined to thing some here are a bit envious and not so concerned with facts. Look man, I don't want to go back and forth with you but I really think you need to be careful when you make baseless accusations. If you at least can't see that tec850 is a Sirens key and deserves the value placed upon it I would be very surprised. No matter what you believe about CBSI's intentions they discovered a key book before anyone else did. That seems like sound research to me. Detective Comics was a book found on ebay for $1-4 plus shipping before and immediately after Topher's post on December 14th. I know because I bought 9 copies on ebay immediately following his post. I also found stacks of TEC850 in the wild. So when you said earlier I have an "agenda", you were dead wrong. If I had an agenda wouldn't you think I'd be talking up TEC850? Come on now. So, yes, Topher/Trey/cbsi were actually responsible for starting the craze on this that immediately turned it into a 30 dollar book a few days later. Don't believe me? Use ebay sold listings and look at the sales starting on December 14th (and even before the 14th) immediately after Topher made the post. Look how all copies before and immediately after his announcement were cover price or less. Then look at the sales a few days later up through today. This isn't my opinion. So why not give them credit instead of making unfounded pump and dump accusations? Jesus, you make bank off their work and then slap them in the face. How is that cool?

This isn't the Avengers or Justice League, the Sirens is not some official team name with membership applications and dues. Harley, Ivy, and Catwoman are informally known as the Sirens. Nobody in the entire Sirens run refers to the team as the Sirens, nor do the team members use that label for themselves. Great analysis DS. -d __________________________________________________________ So if the Siren's name doesn't matter then that makes their formation within the context of a story all that more important. Seems like a pretty good argument for Tec850 to me.