Rhymenoceros

With the success of Something Is Killing The Children, it got me thinking about how many comic series were originally solicited as a mini and then later bumped up to an ongoing series in the same volume. 

If others are interested as well I can maintain this thread as a running list.

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LIMITED SERIES TURNED ONGOING IN SAME VOLUME:

Animal Man Vol. 1 (DC)

Crossover (Image)

Five Weapons (Image)

Once & Future (Boom)

Something Is Killing The Children (Boom)

Transformers Vol. 1 (Marvel)

Usagi Yojimbo Vol. 3 (Dark Horse)

Youngblood Vol. 1 (Image)

ONE SHOTS TURNED ONGOING IN SAME VOLUME:

Destroyer Duck (Eclipse)

On 7/27/2021 at 11:06 AM, buttock said:

No.  CGC asks you to guess the value based on your best estimation, and then has you SIGN A CONTRACT agreeing to adjusting the price if the tier changes based on the outcome of the assessment you paid for.  

This is the reality. I learned a lot about this specific "issue" / part of the process now that it has happened to me. I do stand by the statements that this has been sporadically enforced at least up to this point according to many who have posted in the thread. It will be interesting to see if it will be applied universally with the new management taking over, or if my situation was an outlier when the FMV difference was not as drastic as many others who have gone through without a tier bump.

On 7/24/2021 at 9:56 AM, eddly said:

Totally understand that, just seems weird to target Kanan #1.

#6, but I'm with ya 

RECAP:

After the discussion so far and looking into examples and info shared, I'm thinking it's primarily a judgement call by the grader based on their personal knowledge/belief of the books value, and perhaps (sometimes?) then verified with GPA values. My book in question has dropped in value somewhat recently, but still well under the graded GPA values that some have slid by under modern. In April and May (2-3 months ago) a few 9.8s of Kanan #6 sold for $800 - $850. Now it's about $600 - $650.

I was told during my first call to CGC asking about it that a supervisor or head grader (I don't remember her exact words) must approve any tier bumps, so it's supposedly not solely up to the grader... but I think the grader must bring it up to their superior to approve. 

When books valued at $1-2k+ are slipping by, it's certainly not unilaterally enforced. Either that, or there are maybe 1-2 graders (of the approx. 15-20 on staff) who look for this being abused. The policy may even be marginally honor system based, as long as the book is not pre-1975 and your submission isn't loaded with keys.  OR a crackdown is coming.

On 7/23/2021 at 12:02 PM, Count D. Monet said:

Jennifer kinda did.

@Count D. Monet I think you've actually helped the spread of this information more than Jennifer just by reposting that screenshot 4 times in the thread so far. Thanks for trying to be helpful to those in the thread. Now let's see if we can get it somewhere the majority of CGC submitters will see. 

On 7/22/2021 at 3:44 PM, awakeintheashes said:

I think we are going to experience a loose phase of people starting threads (before a grade is assigned) about the potential grade they received or damage by CGC because their submission was not upcharged. 

Oh and don’t forget about blaming people in the “Hey, Buddy, Can You Spare a Grade” thread. 

 
Time will tell if CGC will be cracking down on borderline FMV tier adjustments based on CGC sold data, or if I just got unlucky as some have said 

On 7/22/2021 at 9:53 AM, Gaard said:

Wouldn't it be great if they actually outlined their procedures (for this and other things)?

Exactly what I'm advocating for now after experiencing this tier bump on a small FMV threshold. Less mystery and more transparency in policies that we agree to by submitting books. Again, I'm not "upset" by the outcome in getting the 9.8; rather the lack of clear guidelines and understanding among CGC customer service staff to be able to answer questions if it's going to be enforced this closely. 

X-men 1 and TMNT 1

Looked at both books for so long and now likely out of reach even for a 1.0. 

On 7/21/2021 at 8:38 PM, eddly said:

As long as they bump you down a tier too if it turns out you overvalued a book…

They actually flat out state they will NEVER do that 

On 7/21/2021 at 3:32 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

You can still submit it modern tier for now.

Okay I see what book was bumped.  Honestly you got a outlier, 1st time in a long I have seen them bump on such a small amount.  Book is only worth $600 from what I saw on GPA.

What I do agree with is you got unlucky.  It happens sometimes.

 

Thanks for the level headed reply after understanding the situation 

On 7/21/2021 at 3:22 PM, Count D. Monet said:

It clearly says March 1

Noted 

On 7/21/2021 at 3:27 PM, Count D. Monet said:

Who cares? Value it at what you'd like insurance to pay out for it, and if you get bumped up a tier, great. If you're living hand to mouth where a tier bump is going to ruin your finances you should probably be concentrating on other more important things.

Not the point and doesn't apply, but I appreciate your concern. 

Read my update on pg 4. I'm not upset at the outcome. I think the policy of sources from that screenshot should be clear and well communicated among the company, assuming it's current. It has not been consistently enforced from others' posts in this thread. Maybe it will be, moving forward with the new management as some have predicted. 

I'm glad two people agree that a single obscure post on the forums is a sufficient way to communicate an important policy with everyone. 

Two separate customer service reps could not or would not tell me what is in that post. How is that transparent or obvious? 

In the asm 300 9.8 case referenced above, that is an extreme and a different ballpark than my example. Even a raw NM asm 300 goes for more than the $400 modern tier max. 

On 7/21/2021 at 2:34 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

They use GPA, that is has been known for 15 years, and or other available information from past auctions or known sales.  Just like we do.

Maybe I am at fault here, nope I just check and this thread is not from 2005. 

For those who haven't been here for 15 years, can you provide a current link to where CGC makes that determination clear to submitters?

On 7/21/2021 at 2:00 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I understand the frustration of the argument that CGC is in the grading business not the valuation business.  However, let's say you the customer submitted an invoice like I did a couple years ago.  I submitted 10 copies of the same book in the modern fast track tier.  

8 got graded CGC 9.8 as expected

2 got CGC 9.9 (I thought one had a chance)

Now if CGC didnt bump me then if the package was lost in the mail they were only going to cover me no more than $200, and or insurance.

So its a way #1 for them to make more money and #2 protect you as well.

Point being if CGC just mailed you back your CGC 9.9, and it's now worth considerably higher than $200, would you be okay conversely  with them not bumping you if the package was damaged or lost in the mail?  You cant have it both ways is my point.  

aka Your book is now worth this, and should have been submitted in a higher value tier.  More often that not is justifiable for them to do so, and honestly if CGC bumped all my books I am going to be up much higher than my CGC fees in the long run.  CGC wants to be paid for the risk of handling, grading, and shipping your books.  Think about it this way if a book is now worth $10k, and you only paid $18 to get it graded how does that benefit CGC for the risk of grading that book?  The transaction has to be worth their time for taking on that risk as well. 

I just submitted a couple books Express, I hope to God they get pumped to Walkthrough!  

I don't believe they increase the insurance value... they just charge you more while bumping the tier up. If something would happen, according to their own terms, you would only be paid what you the submitter entered on the form. At least in my case. Perhaps there are exceptions. 

On 7/21/2021 at 1:20 PM, wiparker824 said:

What will be interesting is if this is the new normal or just a one off thing. 

I also think they should be much more clear in their wording if they are using graded and slabbed values to determine value so that their customers aren’t as surprised like you were.
Congrats on the 9.8 in any case.

💯% agree, and thanks!

UPDATE:

Grades just posted. The Kanan #6 in question is a 9.8

While the initial shock got to me, after some thought I suppose I am leaning towards happy overall - since I only anticipated a 9.6 out of the book. Still, this has made me give a hard thought about the impact of CGC determining FMV apparently by CGC sold listings of the grade determined. Maybe for some this is not "news", but it was news to me as this didn't seem to be in line with the policy as I had experienced it in the past. 

On 7/20/2021 at 6:40 PM, gregwynn said:

Not sure that high but definitely several times higher than the standard 1k limit. 

Checked GoCollect for you.. ASM 101 9.6 right? : 

On 7/20/2021 at 3:25 PM, Tnexus said:

Out of curiosity, did you have a Pre-screen on it? I could see them using that as a justification to upcharge. If you believe it's a 9.8, then the value is potentially greater.

No pre-screen. I was told this:

On 7/20/2021 at 2:34 PM, gregwynn said:

Find it interesting. Wonder if they have an Ahole Grader.... My last Standard Submission i had an ASM 101 Grade 9.6....They didn't bump it to Express or Walkthru price.

Now THAT is interesting... that's an $8 - $10K book, right?  (After grading)

On 7/20/2021 at 12:19 PM, Heronext said:

I think, over the years, I've categorized several books into a lower grading tier where it could have gone either way.  This is accomplished easily, honestly and with no sinister motive, by a conservative raw grade estimate and/or internally justifying ignorance of certain pricing & valuation sources.  I've never had any of my submissions adjusted to higher tiers.

Frankly, the value of a book can rise (and fall) dramatically from the time a book is submitted to the time it's encapsulated.  If they tried to raise the tier in a scenario like this, I would contest the change strongly, saying it was such-and-such a value when I submitted it, it's not my fault it takes you so long to grade etc etc.  Likewise if I thought it was a temporary valuation "bubble", I would challenge their methodology/sources for the valuation.

I would probably ask them to justify the decision by citing specific sales or sources.  That failing or not being if interest to you, I would simply wait to see if it's a 9.8, and accept their adjustment if it is.

The problem is no one I've spoken to or emailed is even willing to have a conversation. Essentially a robotic, scripted response that what they say is what goes, end of story. 

I'm going to wait to see the grade before reaching out again 

On 7/20/2021 at 11:55 AM, Gaard said:

My opinion...

There isn't some CGC god, who sits upon some throne declaring what must be & what you must do. Call them back and get some answers....

 I've emailed and called and no one will tell me what sources or method they use to determine value - only that by submitting I agree to their sole determination of value. Awaiting grade and will update