Microchip

On 1/28/2024 at 11:40 AM, comicwiz said:

With the following example, an Avengers 57 CGC 9.4 has a different book inside the holder, noticed from the photos of the listing on sale date 1/15/2023

Certification: 0966088004

Begnning first with the cert look-up:

Cert: 0966088004 | 5/2/2017 | $2,300

↳

Cert: 0966088004 [1/15/2023] - $3,050 (Changes noticed here - easiest to ascertain: front cover - staple placement on front cover, colour breaking creases along top edge; back cover - namely, brown spot stain on back across from Rockwell on outer edge, heavy dust shadowing along top edge, and traveling along the entire spine. 

Damm!!!

Great work here.

Thats so distressing to see another key book dragged into this scam.   Is this book on the CGC list?

The OG.   Pump the breaks, remember he's a Clink man now.

On 1/25/2024 at 11:24 AM, D84 said:

That's abysmal. Who's designing these posters?

It's like modern comic books, variants rule the day.

Take your pick.

My fave..

On 1/21/2024 at 11:56 AM, paqart said:

 

Do you have any God of thunder, King Thor books?

On 1/23/2024 at 12:48 PM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

I think this book has been a troublemaker recently. 

On 1/19/2024 at 2:05 PM, Iconic1s said:

REVEALED!  Secret to counting pages, checking for clipped MVS, or any other defect inside ANY Comic Book without cracking slab!  DISCLAIMER: This only works in Florida…

  Hide contents

 

Apparently Matt and the crew at CGC can determine if a book has a MJ insert or not without cracking an inner well.    That sounds kinda impressive.

On 1/19/2024 at 1:36 PM, wiparker824 said:

I’ve been busy dusting off my 9.8’s for the 9.9 pre screen program. 

Going through your longbox of UF4 9.8 slabs?

I got some, but not as many as I would have liked.    It was a good offering of books.   I got a few from both WaWa auctions.

Very entertaining 

On 1/17/2024 at 1:08 PM, thehumantorch said:

And I know a guy who would weight each pack of cards to pull out the foils.  There's some sneaky guys out there.

There was a local dealer who had a Hulk 181 with the wrong MVS.  artboy99 pointed out to him that it had the wrong MVS, ie someone had married in the pages from Hulk 179 so it appeared complete.  He put it aside but continued to try to sell it without disclosing that it was tampered with and I've never purchased from him since.  There's no way to detect a married in MVS unless you open the book.

 

This issue is as old as comic collecting itself, and has been in play before this scam was discovered.   CGC was the cure for this, give or take 350 pages, and a dozen podcasts looking at the loophole. 

He raises some great points on Dave's video, and additional points around any price impacts on the books involved in the scam.    He give full kudos to Dave and co for putting the interview with Matt together. 

On 1/16/2024 at 4:17 AM, CGC Mike said:

What happens to impacted books in CGC Comics Registry sets?

CGC is contacting the owners of impacted books in the CGC Comics Registry to request that they submit the books for Holder Review.

 

Thanks @CGC Mike 

On 1/16/2024 at 12:46 AM, comicwiz said:

But we definitely have the evidence showing the subversion of more than "holder tampering"; rather, the very real problem with downstream impacts this has had on their certification look-up and systems we use for pricing is that CGC is showing an unusual penchant for quietly purging information in the background without explanation. Some of the information being purged is vital to the ways an investigation is able to gather a chain of evidence, which in itself seemingly reveals a pattern of tampering with evidence. The discourse needs to focus on the latter, and the reasons why this is happening, rather than the down the line impacts of the other ways this incident has manipulated the market. 

I think from CGC's side it makes sense, IF they receive in an affected book, regrade it and make amends.

And your absolutely right, we need a record of events, and not simply archived webpages as proof of what transpired.

Thinking about the GPA side of things, some kind of notification against affected cert numbers, as opposed to removal from the database would be a better outcome for the CGC community, and their website.

On 1/15/2024 at 5:22 PM, Bluemedgroup said:

I’m a take a wild guess that they had huge balls to CPR.  

And a fat wallet.   That would have been expensive layout before taking the plunge at a HA feature auction.

On 1/15/2024 at 3:56 PM, Lightning55 said:

GPA already made a statement, the one you were directed toward. Seemed to cover all aspects of the situation. 

I would think that their system of collecting data is very automated. So bad data is going to enter their database from time to time. Invalid sales data would have to be sorted out and removed. Only they know how efficiently and expeditiously that can be accomplished. 

I'm sure there's a lot of maintenance to keep it as pure as possible. The data is their product, so protecting it is Job 1.

 

Apart from GPA repeating themselves, saying they're just a pricing tool, they're explanation was a bit confusing if I use a weak yard stick on their contribution.

On 1/10/2024 at 3:18 PM, gpanalysis said:

We also spend time checking previous sales data and, as best we can, remove erroneous sales and identify relisted books. Unless these current books under investigation need to be adjusted (with respects to sales not having gone through) then we won't be removing anything from GPA. Including any certs that no longer appear in CGC's system.

So CGC will remove go the through all the effort of fixing the books, giving compensation to those affected, and re-grading the books needed.   

And GPA will just leave in cert's that CGC will be deleting from their database.    Automatically, every other CGC database will be updating accordingly..    So that answer sounds problematic from the get go.

We need a follow up @gpanalysis 

On 1/15/2024 at 3:03 PM, wiparker824 said:

“We also spend time checking previous sales data and, as best we can, remove erroneous sales and identify relisted books. Unless these current books under investigation need to be adjusted (with respects to sales not having gone through) then we won't be removing anything from GPA. Including any certs that no longer appear in CGC's system.”

This is what GPA said in this thread. Not sure what more you’re looking for, but they are telling you they won’t be removed. 

Was this before or after CGC released the list of affected books?

On 1/15/2024 at 1:18 PM, Lightning55 said:

CGC is not  compelled in any way to provide any answers to the many questions we all may have. If they do address any concerns, well, good on them.

There is no regulatory agency overseeing the comic collecting industry/hobby. CGC is not a financial institution, subject to SEC rules and regulations. It is a private company, owned by a public company.

CGC has not done anything criminal. A bit negligent or incompetent maybe, on the reholder process, but poor performance is not a crime. There is probably fraud taking place, maybe unwittingly aided by CGC. But CGC is not the source of the fraud, so not the subject of an investigation. The person, or people, swapping out books are the criminals. 

On that criminal level, the parties affected (collectors who lost money due to slab tempering), would be the ones to press charges, to get law enforcement involved, since something tangible was stolen from them - money. Multiple affected parties would have to band together to seek justice and compensation. 

But....has anyone to date lost money?? Those who potentially could have lost money are supposedly being made whole by CGC, so no longer victims. No victims = no crime = no prosecution. 

And as long as CGC keeps up with current compensation, as well as funding new, previously-unknown instances of swapping, this whole affair slowly loses traction, fading away. Could be the entire strategy. 

My post was to GPAanlysis.

CGC and GPAnalysis need to address this situation.   CGC has already responded, and responded with clear, and strong intention.  They have provided an ongoing commitment to provide remedy to those affected by this criminal fraud.  

GPA data will now be seen as compromised, without providing a public notification on their intention to respond to the situation.

On 1/15/2024 at 12:03 PM, MAR1979 said:

I'm sure Blackstone will do whatever is the least expensive.  Possibly not even that now as this thread has fizzled and Social Media has moved on.

I've been impressed with the social media/youtuber community on this.   They've been working well, and synergistically with the information provided here on the boards.   It still seems to be a hot topic.   The last podcast with 9.9newstand raising the point, of whether additional lists of books will be released by CGC, as they continue to sort through this issue.    

It seems there were other's involved, knowingly, and unknowingly.    The depth of this scam isn't fully bottomed out at this point.   

On 1/15/2024 at 1:08 AM, wiparker824 said:

On 1/14/2024 at 5:51 PM, Microchip said:

Hi @gpanalysis I've just contacted you via your website contact function.

 

Are you guys going to identify the CGC Slab tampering list of books within the database?  

Your website helped identify the fraud initially, what steps will you be taking in response to the fraud committed on the CGC community?

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/12454/

They posted a response on pg. 332 of this thread.

The question of Tampered slabs still stands.   

Will these be removed, identified, or nothing done in response to the list of numbers released by CGC, by @gpanalysis on the website.

On 12/1/2023 at 1:19 PM, Parabellum said:

$2800-3500 is my guess.

For me, this price reflects a softening in prices I'm seeing across the board at HA at the moment.   Unless it's a uber GA/SA key, don't expect a market shaking result.

On 1/14/2024 at 9:46 AM, Beige said:

 

An indigenous, deaf, amputee. with a ton of baby fat, as the all conquering superhero does sound like a massive box ticking exercise.

On 1/14/2024 at 2:58 PM, Beige said:

It was bloody awful.

 

The 'Hero' could have least got into shape - and we are supposed to accept that a one-legged, deaf, overweight woman kicked Daredevil AND The Kingpins behind.

 

I'm all for equality, but lets at last try to make it believable.

 

This wasn't.

I thought it was ok, but the bar is set on the floor with MCU right now.    I thought she acted well, but as a super hero character, yeah Howard the Duck has a better CV.

On 1/14/2024 at 6:47 AM, Bosco685 said:

"Now this is how you make a solid film!"

The last true believer, knows when he see's a brother in arms.

Hi @gpanalysis I've just contacted you via your website contact function.

Are you guys going to identify the CGC Slab tampering list of books within the database?  

Your website helped identify the fraud initially, what steps will you be taking in response to the fraud committed on the CGC community?

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/12454/

Hi @CGC Mike are any of these books sitting in registry sets?

a. If so, is CGC contacting the collectors?

b. are these books going to be withdrawn by CGC from the registry sets?

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/12454/