Jaydogrules

If it was signed by Dell'otto I would buy it because that's an awesome cover. But I would leave it raw. -J.

There's nothing wrong with people making good faith estimates based on the data that we do have. And yes, some people on these boards are privy to more data than others. It's only when the same two or three "print run estimate police" feel the constant need to vomit their repetitive opinions over and over and over again that the conversation goes sideways. -J.

Very nice! Love the bloody red fist matching the title lettering. -J.

No one with any actual knowledge of the process has EVER stated this anywhere. It is speculation made up by jaydog. There is absolutely no proof of it anywhere. Fact. And every time you or jay repeat it, I'll remind everyone of this. Actually, Paul does know. And don't you too? http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9137981&fpart=7 ...or are you just going to default back to the "Marvel is lying" position or claim that they arbitrarily print stacks of books that no retailer has ordered again? Ugh, I'm done with this conversation. -J.

I could easily see very few retailers bothering to load up on scores of copies of the dying JIM title in order to get just one of the many Venom variants that were going to be released. That being the case it's not hard to imagine, as you said, even a hundred copies of a 400 copy print run still being leftover and subsequently being aquired by a favoured retailer. Still doesn't change the fact that there is a scant amount of them in circulation, which becomes an issue when large amounts of collectors begin trying to complete their sets or realize how cool this, and some of the other covers really are. -J.

"Historical significance" changes with time, which is why pulpy romance, science fiction, and western comics have also fallen out of favour. The simple fact of the matter is that the current Marvel universe is simply more identifiable with the contents within the pages of Cap 1, than Marvel Comics 1, and that is not likely to change. Some may choose to disagree, but just about the only real significance of Marvel Comics 1 at this point is its title and the fact that it was the first "Marvel" comic. And again, that hasn't stopped DC's titular namesake issue (Detective Comics 1), also a pulpy throwback similar to Marvel Comics 1, from being overtaken by multiple other subsequent books that were published subsequent to it. If someone were to start yet another poll asking which they'd rather have, a Detective Comics 1 or an Action 1 or a Tec 27, and maybe even a Flash Comics 1, All American 16, Tec 31, and what the hell, an All Star 8, the responses would likely embarrass the Tec 1. -J.

yeah, these books just keep going up. Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up. This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up. Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback: More than a year ago JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50 22 bucks and a free TPB They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more. I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong. With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed. -J. Your math is off buddy . Care to explain how? -J. Because you didn't do exact math and get 460. I hope that's a joke. Either that or that people didn't know what I meant with a "~" in front of the numbers. Also, 460 would assume all shops' orders were in quantities of 50+ to qualify- an unlikely scenario, and particularly since JIM was a title on its last legs at the time. -J. This is why I said its curious wantedcomix had so many copies. Ive counted using sold sales from their feedback and im at 28 separate copies of JIM 633 venom variant. There is no way they ordered 1,400 copies of the regular issue to qualify for all of these. Thor # 10 as well, im at 35 separate copies of that venom variant that they have sold in the past 3 years. They somehow got a hold of the undistributed, non-qualified for, venom variants back 3 years ago. Probably from Diamond. That's the fallacy with these LOW print run " guesses" So you are at 460 copies based on diamond orders of the regular issue, and stress that obviously not all shops qualified to get this issue. So its even lower? Sorry that's not how it works. They don't wait until diamond gets its orders from the stores and then go back and print and second batch of these books with the variant cover based on those orders. It would be severely cost inefficient to do so. They print them all at the same time. They would typically use previous sales numbers to get a base number to print for the variant like the 460 you came up with, knowing that not all retailers would qualify. Round numbers make sense. It would make much more sense that they printed 500 copies, not worrying about how many retailers qualified, just being happy that they made enough to cover that offer. Remember that artists usually get a few copies of the covers they do, some books are given away in house as well. What happens to the balance that isn't distributed? They are surely are not used as firewood. It would be easier for diamond to just sell them a few months or a year later at cover price or lower, which is probably how WantedComix managed to get so many. So for Journey into Mystery # 633 1:50 variant. We have to assume a scenario like this. 500 printed. A reasonable guess of about 300 copies distributed to stores that qualified for the variant. 50 copies going to artists and In house. 150 copies leftover, which are later distributed by diamond, probably offered to their largest account holders first at low prices. Even on the outside of both extremes, our estimated numbers are not very far apart. In fact, we are probably quibbling over a less than 100 copies difference. Either way, the JIM 633 Venom is easily going to be the scarcest Venom variant of the group given the title's sales figures, regardless of which single comic shop managed to get their hands on whatever scant copies were leftover. -J. Ummmm...no. When you are talking about numbers like 400, 100 is a significant percentage amount. There's no denying it's rare. It's just that trying to make it seem rarer is just not necessary and misleading. Of course unless you have an agenda...hmmmmm I love it when noobs who obviously know nothing about me attempt to make assumptions.. Yes, my "agenda" was to point out a book (another Venom variant) that looked to be heating up. You know, the point of the thread. -J.

yeah, these books just keep going up. Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up. This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up. Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback: More than a year ago JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50 22 bucks and a free TPB They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more. I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong. With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed. -J. Your math is off buddy . Care to explain how? -J. Because you didn't do exact math and get 460. I hope that's a joke. Either that or that people didn't know what I meant with a "~" in front of the numbers. Also, 460 would assume all shops' orders were in quantities of 50+ to qualify- an unlikely scenario, and particularly since JIM was a title on its last legs at the time. -J. This is why I said its curious wantedcomix had so many copies. Ive counted using sold sales from their feedback and im at 28 separate copies of JIM 633 venom variant. There is no way they ordered 1,400 copies of the regular issue to qualify for all of these. Thor # 10 as well, im at 35 separate copies of that venom variant that they have sold in the past 3 years. They somehow got a hold of the undistributed, non-qualified for, venom variants back 3 years ago. Probably from Diamond. That's the fallacy with these LOW print run " guesses" So you are at 460 copies based on diamond orders of the regular issue, and stress that obviously not all shops qualified to get this issue. So its even lower? Sorry that's not how it works. They don't wait until diamond gets its orders from the stores and then go back and print and second batch of these books with the variant cover based on those orders. It would be severely cost inefficient to do so. They print them all at the same time. They would typically use previous sales numbers to get a base number to print for the variant like the 460 you came up with, knowing that not all retailers would qualify. Round numbers make sense. It would make much more sense that they printed 500 copies, not worrying about how many retailers qualified, just being happy that they made enough to cover that offer. Remember that artists usually get a few copies of the covers they do, some books are given away in house as well. What happens to the balance that isn't distributed? They are surely are not used as firewood. It would be easier for diamond to just sell them a few months or a year later at cover price or lower, which is probably how WantedComix managed to get so many. So for Journey into Mystery # 633 1:50 variant. We have to assume a scenario like this. 500 printed. A reasonable guess of about 300 copies distributed to stores that qualified for the variant. 50 copies going to artists and In house. 150 copies leftover, which are later distributed by diamond, probably offered to their largest account holders first at low prices. Even on the outside of both extremes, our estimated numbers are not very far apart. In fact, we are probably quibbling over a less than 100 copies difference. Either way, the JIM 633 Venom is easily going to be the scarcest Venom variant of the group given the title's sales figures, regardless of which single comic shop managed to get their hands on whatever scant copies were leftover. -J.

yeah, these books just keep going up. Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up. This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up. Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback: More than a year ago JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50 22 bucks and a free TPB They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more. I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong. With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed. -J. Your math is off buddy . Care to explain how? -J. Because you didn't do exact math and get 460. I hope that's a joke. Either that or that people didn't know what I meant with a "~" in front of the numbers. Also, 460 would assume all shops' orders were in quantities of 50+ to qualify- an unlikely scenario, and particularly since JIM was a title on its last legs at the time. -J.

yeah, these books just keep going up. Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up. This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up. Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback: More than a year ago JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50 22 bucks and a free TPB They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more. I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong. With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed. -J. Your math is off buddy . Care to explain how? -J.

yeah, these books just keep going up. Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up. This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up. Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback: More than a year ago JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50 22 bucks and a free TPB They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more. I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong. With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed. -J.

The Journey Into Mystery Venom variant (#633) looks to be heating up: http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOURNEY-INTO-MYSTERY-633-1-50-VENOM-VARIANT-MARVEL-COMIC-BOOK-THOR-JAN-2012-1-/291765153826?hash=item43ee8ef022:g:I9cAAOSw~oFXOSS4 -J.

Do not understand you? What's the all time GPA high for a 6.5 ? $30k (last sale), two and a half years ago (Oct. 2013). -J.

Rogue 1 will eke past $1B. I predict Star Wars fatigue will set in long before super hero fatigue does, as they are almost literally telling the same story over and over and over. If suicide squad even hits $500MM worldwide it should be considered a success. -J.

If I was given a choice between the 3, that'd be my pick as well. so Bat 1>Cap 1>Marvel 1 for you? Personal choice. Same order for me That's a completely different poll between books that are not even apples to apples. But another poll that might be interesting to see the result of now would be an Action 1 or a Tec 27. -J.

Definitely on fire: http://item.ebay.co.uk/252390752284?item_hash4=966fc5c3&LH_Complete=1&LH_BIN=1&LH_BO=1&_ipg=200&_pgn=1&rc=nt&rmvSB=true -J.

"Dirty pool, old man. I like it!" -J.

There hasn't been a movie with this much fake studio manufactured "buzz" this far in advance of a movie being made, let alone coming out since .....Batman vs. Superman. Now we're already having to hear about possible sequels and spin-offs from the still untested and heavily re-worked original product, that are barely even a glimmer in anyone's eye. I wish someone would put as much time and effort into the finished product as they do into the relentless marketing. -J.

The fact that one book costs less than another doesn't preclude someone from wanting it more anyway. When MC 1 was more expensive than Cap 1, which one did you want then? Seems your position in this thread is that price determines what you like. We're not talking about which one is more expensive, we're discussing which one you want more. If the decision for you boils down to the price tag, then I'm sorry you don't enjoy your expensive books as much as I enjoy my cheap ones. Not at all, I love them all of course. The difference is, while my inner collector wouldn't mind having a Marvel 1..... my inner 8-year old simply had to have but three books really- the first Spidey, the first Iron Man, and the first Cap. -J.

The same sort of collector who thought it once unfathomable that AF 15 (and now Hulk 1) would or could surpass FF1 in the SA also cannot accept that the guard has already changed. I whole heartedly agree with jgallo's comment as well as Red84's above. -J.

A strong result for a raw copy : http://www.ebay.com/itm/322107931660?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Even the Mexican reprint is kicking @$$: http://www.ebay.com/itm/141995234965?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT -J.

Digging your new sig line. Oh, and this happened earlier today : http://www.ebay.com/itm/322107930077?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT -J.

....that also hasn't stopped action 1/Tec 27 (and even a few other books ) from overtaking detective comics 1. -J.

...that hasn't helped detective comics #1 either. -J.

And if Marvel gets around to making a movie showcasing the original Torch vs the Sub-Mariner those casual observers will change their mind in a heart beat. Besides MC#1 is much tougher to acquire than a Cap#1 as you rarely see them for sale. To me it's still "the" GA Timely book to own. I usually hate to say something is "never going to happen". But that is never going to happen . And even if it did, it would be confusing for audiences and mind of lame. Marvel is all in on the Cap 1/Avengers universe building with the absence of the X men film rights. -J.