Jaydogrules

I like it but I think Bulletproof is just going to over expose all his work. He looks to have some kind of exclusive arrangement with them right now. Either way, his output is dwarfed by JSC, I don't think "over exposure" is going to be an issue. In fact, I wish he would release more, non-store exclusive stuff. -J.

Why torture yourself? Why prance into a thread all annoyed and announce it? If you don't like what some people have to say, put them on ignore. I must have 30 people on ignore at this point (and about 10 more just today) and it makes life so much easier. And here's hint: Don't ever peek! Oh... it isn't torture... it amazes me that a couple people always argue about print runs for 48 hours straight every couple months... comichron this... comichron that... it's pure gold here for me... I got to post a picture of Wayne and Garth in moderns heating up... far as I'm concerned I'm already in the green for the year... with the exception of those 500 copies of X-Force 19 I'm sitting on... If you would recognize that it's not "arguing about print runs" but one person repeatedly posting misinformation that can mislead others, then you might be getting somewhere. Instead, you throw the baby out with the bathwater, and end up doing what you're complaining about: "derailing" the thread, and then pretending it "doesn't bother you", after complaining about it in multiple posts. If you don't like what others talk about, put them on ignore. If that's not enough, complain to moderation, and let them handle it. Hell, I've already done half the work for you by putting my posts in spoilers. Hey man, you really need to stop with this kind of stuff. And if you're going to participate in a conversation, have the temerity to do so without hiding behind "spoiler tags". What a convenient way for you to spout the same repetitive nonsense and then back away from taking responsibility for it by then saying "well no one made you look", or "just ignore me". If you want to have a voice, at least have the guts to stand by what you are doing and saying in the open forum that this is intended to be. Seriously, grow up RMA. It's this kind of spurious and condescending BS that derails threads and gets people's backs up about you. So I'm going to say this one more time and then I'm done with you on this topic: You, sir, like everyone else on here are simply stating your opinions. You are not the harbinger of truth on these boards. You are just another guy who is stating what he thinks. My opinion of what you are claiming on this topic is that you are more interested in fear-mongering about variants for some reason, than having an actually honest and reasonable and multi-sided conversation about them . Why are you doing that ? Maybe you had a bad experience on a flip of two or three. Who knows. And even though some of what you say is technically accurate, you, on multiple occasions have either forgotten , dismissed, or completely ignored the testimony of multiple other knowledgeable boardies who have spoken directly to you and specifically told you that you are mistaken about many of the assumptions that you continue to repeatedly make during your discussions on this topic. It is almost as if you have an internal reset button that gets pressed every time the topic arises and start again at square one with your opinions Hence the "Groundhog Day" nature of this conversation. You have made your opinions and thoughts on the matter abundantly clear an excessive and multitude of times, and guess what- people are still going to estimate the print runs of variants exactly as they see fit. If someone is doing so with obviously onerous intentions most of the people who post and read on here will be savvy enough to know that without you, under the self-important guise of "correcting misinformation ", spouting your largely baseless opinions for the 1000th time ad nauseam. Word to the wise. Peace. -J.

$11,250 Hulksdaddy1 is da ! Yes you are good call. Glad I didn't bet you this time ! -J.

Those are. Especially the 3.0 which would be a GPA high. -J. Yes, record price on the 3.0. Almost a 30-40% jump across all grades within a year. Long term holders are doing well and looks look the bad movie of the past has not affected recent prices. That movie is (mercifully) fading from memory and it looks like DC is doing some interesting things with the character and concept of Green Lanterns in the new Rebirth launch. So yes, those who bought this book on the dip are sitting pretty right now. -J.

Those are. Especially the 3.0 which would be a GPA high. -J.

That Wolverine is sick. -J.

Very nice. Love his pastels/chalks on black paper. -J.

I'll go $11,550 What?!? That's all? The 4.0 AF 15 went for $14,300 in this same auction. I'll say $13,500-$14,000. -J.

This discussion has nothing to do with opinion. This discussion has everything to do with combatting the deliberate spread of misinformation, and the correction of that misinformation, so others don't make decisions based on bad information. If I insisted that 2 + 2 = 5, and someone else said "no, 2 + 2 = 4", would that just be two people trying to "change each other's opinion"...? it's your opinion that there's misinformation being spread. It's their opinion that there isn't. Did you read the original post about the variant print number?? Obviously not because it was not an opinion. He stated the print run numbers himself and then claimed "no more than 400 copies" if you did the math HIS MATH. 400 was incorrect and a deliberate spread of misinformation. Not an opinion. Maybe you should stick to talking about Lois and Clark and Superman 52. Your very good at that. Did YOU read my original post? Or have you been too busy trolling? (Since I've noticed that's about all you have been doing in the thirty seconds you have been on these boards.) If not, here is my original post, verbatim: You put something I said nothing remotely close to in "quotes" no less, and then accuse me of "misinformation"? Bye Bye Troll. -J.

My problem is with boardies trying to act as if they know what publishers NEED and immediately equating it with FOC. As we have seen FOC really only represents some of the pie (I myself like how re-orders are ignored, but that is a small nit to pick). As a fan/spec n00b I wonder how digital tech has changed the game from the days when changing the plates influenced things, but I digress. What publishers need and how that need is ultimately represented by a "true" print run (and chasing that elusive number makes you more hapless than Ahab) is a shifting formula that changes for every issue of every title. We know so little and have no idea what we do not know. Arguing about the degree of unknown or how some element effects the print run helps little as well. (Or, in the immortal words of Bill Parcells "in some contingency event, all of which are hypothetical".) All very good points. However knowledgeable boardies have come on (on multiple occasions) and confirmed that the FOC numbers (as reported by Comichron) are not wildly different than what is ultimately printed. The FOC is there for a reason- and that reason (obviously) is to give publishers a very good idea of how many copies they need to order up from the printers. This really is just common sense, and I don't believe anyone has given a very good reason why using Comichron numbers as a baseline estimate is not, at the very least , a valid starting point. And then if anyone has any additional information to share about a particular book that might be helpful in modifying the equation, all the better. -J.

A new low! Maybe i shouldn't be so shocked, but Where? Better? Every time I think Jaydog has posted the stupidest thing ever, he proves me wrong. And yet you have neither stated not shown anything that demonstrates that anything I have said is incorrect. Good ole "Lazyboy" troll posting ID. -J.

Then why are their so many extras? I don't think the theories are mutually exclusive. There are most likely minimum print runs for various thresholds that need to be met. For example, if you were printing, if the pre-order (4000) + reserves (400) was 4,400 it might cost the same to print 5,000, and the printer might even print an extra 200-300 just in case. Then if everything went smoothly, the 4,000 pre-orders turned into 5,300 actual comics, which is not insignificant at all in terms of the difference, but also quite a reasonable possibility. But what if it was a terrible print run and you only had 4,200 printed copies you could actually release? Or what if everything else was the same but you added 500 extra copies for promos and copies given to creators and staff?, how big would the swing be then? What if that extra 500 put you into the next threshold for printing? Need to print 5,125? Costs the same as 5,500. Plus more reserves. Suddenly there's only 4,000 sold through diamond but you might get 5,700 total printed copies. Nobody is saying it happens EVERY time. But we simply don't have enough info. Telling someone the print run is probably between 3,500 and 7,000 really doesn't have too much value to me, and probably is better left unsaid. Like saying Russ Westbrook scored between 5 and 50 points last night. Why even say it? Actually the expense of swapping cover plates during a print run is nominal. A publisher could literally print a one of one if they wanted without much or any added expense. In fact, some have. -J.

Few things.... 1. Who is saying they print "far more than they need"? That's the point: we don't know, but trying to estimate on an unrelated number is misleading at best.That's the reason why the numbers shouldn't be compared, above and beyond any other concerns. For every X amount of copies of this regular book you order, you get/can purchase 1 copy of this incentive. That's the only concrete information we have about the incentive, and the publisher doesn't owe anybody anything beyond fulfilling those orders. That does not therefore mean that the two print runs are tied together by that distribution number. They're not. The publishers print what they want, and always have, for whatever reasons they have, whether it's precisely what they need down to the copy, or 10 times what they need to fulfill the incentive. We don't know. Yes, the estimated sales of the regular version establishes an estimated BASELINE of possible incentive copies printed, true, but it's only a baseline. That is, "there were at least X copies printed." But the other side is open ended. 2. Who determines what Marvel "needs"? Doesn't Marvel determine what Marvel needs, for their own purposes? 3. Are you aware that Marvel warehoused around 3,000 Spiderman #1 Platinums for 15 years, until they were purchased by Todd McDevitt's New Dimension Comics around 2005? Why did Marvel print "far more than they needed", and then pay to store them for a decade and a half? Because they thought they needed them, and when they no longer thought that, they sold them. And I guarantee you, McDevitt didn't pay anywhere near what they were worth on the market at the time. 4. Marvel prints millions of comic books every year. They aren't going to have much problem paying Diamond to store whatever amount they print above and beyond what they need. 5. It doesn't cost Marvel much more to print an extra X amount of copies than it does the regular book, since everything but the cover is the same. It costs Marvel about 50 cents a copy...and that's probably a high estimate for the big boys (vs. around $1.00/copy for 5-6k indy books.) So, if they are "blowing out" incentives for $1.25, $1.50, $2 each...they're not losing money. They're just selling books that they had about the same amount into as any other book, for about the same amount as they would get for any other book. And you're right, they're not selling anything at a markup later on. Marvel doesn't care about that. They're not a back issue dealer. To Marvel and DC and others, however, these books are no different at all from every other book. It didn't cost them much more, if anything, to print them, it didn't cost them much more, if anything, to store them, and if they sell them for the same price they get for other books, they're not "selling them for pennies." You're thinking like a collector, or a dealer....not a publisher. 6. Nobody unintentionally prints much of anything. No. If anything, it is closer to a MAXIMUM CEILING of potential copies printed, since not every store will order enough quantities of a book to qualify for the incentive. But in reality, once you factor back in printing overages for damages (placed at 10-15% tops by boardies knowledgeable of the printing industry) and courtesy copies, rounded up to the nearest case pack, it is VERY reasonable to use Comichron's N.A. distribution numbers to ESTIMATE a ratio variant's print run (which is all that I have seen anyone do on here, and they should be able to do so without being harassed, barked at or condescended to every single time). -J. Then why are their so many extras? Because few things are an exact science and that's why they're called "estimates". -J.

Did you know U.S. Marvel comics are also distributed to more than the UK overseas. I traveled Europe last year and just about every shop I visited had new Marvel comics. The exact same ones we have in the U.S. In English. I saw this in France, Belgium, Germany, etc. It would be interesting to know how much those sales account for. I can see another 15% or more easily just from the other countries. Aside from a few other European countries like Sweden, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc there's also... Australia, new Zealand, INDIA, Philippines, Singapore, and probably some others. Do these constitute HUGE #'s? Maybe, maybe not, but in aggregate it MIGHT in some cases represent another bump in variant print run, which may not insignificant, and may or may not be consistent (some variants might not even be offered internationally for whatever reason, or at different incentive levels). The point is not that any single factor causes sooooo much uncertainty, although in some cases it might, but the point is that there's sooooo MANY factors that going into deciding print run (of any comic, including variants), with 99% of them being unknown to the public for any given issue, that essentially you're just closing your eyes and throwing darts at a moving board and then making a guess at what you hit. The variants we get are distributed through Diamond N.A. and there is nothing that I have ever seen that even suggests that they are offered overseas. Again, what I see are foreign reprints that use many of the variant covers but with different interiors, or covers that are unique to the overseas market that we don't get here. It is a different market and should not be a part of the conversation. -J. Is this fact or opinion? Those same stores that carry those U.S. comics also had the same exact Diamond Previews. I guess it is possible those overseas shops are counted in the North American numbers. Do we have any non-North American/non-UK posters who can tell us how comic shops overseas order, if the U.S. variants are available there, and if the comics are distributed from a warehouse in the U.S. or overseas? I honestly don't know, but after having seen how popular U.S. comics are overseas, I am interested in learning. I know the incentive variants are available in Australia. I've seen them on the shelves there. Is it some or all the variants? have no clue. Is it every store? Have no clue. Are the distribution ratios the same? Have no clue Which distributor(s) ships to them? Have no clue Do they charge a heavy price on them in the stores? EFF YEAH! Is whatever is available in Australia probably also available in New Zealand? I'd say 50/50 chance on that. I've also seen some in foreign countries. And the few times I have, they were acquired from the secondary market, not from Diamond direct. -J.

Did you know U.S. Marvel comics are also distributed to more than the UK overseas. I traveled Europe last year and just about every shop I visited had new Marvel comics. The exact same ones we have in the U.S. In English. I saw this in France, Belgium, Germany, etc. It would be interesting to know how much those sales account for. I can see another 15% or more easily just from the other countries. Aside from a few other European countries like Sweden, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc there's also... Australia, new Zealand, INDIA, Philippines, Singapore, and probably some others. Do these constitute HUGE #'s? Maybe, maybe not, but in aggregate it MIGHT in some cases represent another bump in variant print run, which may not insignificant, and may or may not be consistent (some variants might not even be offered internationally for whatever reason, or at different incentive levels). The point is not that any single factor causes sooooo much uncertainty, although in some cases it might, but the point is that there's sooooo MANY factors that going into deciding print run (of any comic, including variants), with 99% of them being unknown to the public for any given issue, that essentially you're just closing your eyes and throwing darts at a moving board and then making a guess at what you hit. The variants we get are distributed through Diamond N.A. and there is nothing that I have ever seen that even suggests that they are offered overseas. Again, what I see are foreign reprints that use many of the variant covers but with different interiors, or covers that are unique to the overseas market that we don't get here. It is a different market and should not be a part of the conversation. -J. Is this fact or opinion? Those same stores that carry those U.S. comics also had the same exact Diamond Previews. I guess it is possible those overseas shops are counted in the North American numbers. Do we have any non-North American/non-UK posters who can tell us how comic shops overseas order, if the U.S. variants are available there, and if the comics are distributed from a warehouse in the U.S. or overseas? I honestly don't know, but after having seen how popular U.S. comics are overseas, I am interested in learning. The international market represents maaaaaaybe 10-15% over and above the published N.A. numbers, and I have never seen Diamond UK offering the same variants (although that's not to say the UK market doesn't get a crack at the same loser books like everyone else during the occasional variant dump) and publishers like Panini are offering different books altogether in the non-English speaking countries. -J.

Did you know U.S. Marvel comics are also distributed to more than the UK overseas. I traveled Europe last year and just about every shop I visited had new Marvel comics. The exact same ones we have in the U.S. In English. I saw this in France, Belgium, Germany, etc. It would be interesting to know how much those sales account for. I can see another 15% or more easily just from the other countries. Aside from a few other European countries like Sweden, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc there's also... Australia, new Zealand, INDIA, Philippines, Singapore, and probably some others. Do these constitute HUGE #'s? Maybe, maybe not, but in aggregate it MIGHT in some cases represent another bump in variant print run, which may not insignificant, and may or may not be consistent (some variants might not even be offered internationally for whatever reason, or at different incentive levels). The point is not that any single factor causes sooooo much uncertainty, although in some cases it might, but the point is that there's sooooo MANY factors that going into deciding print run (of any comic, including variants), with 99% of them being unknown to the public for any given issue, that essentially you're just closing your eyes and throwing darts at a moving board and then making a guess at what you hit. The variants we get are distributed through Diamond N.A. and there is nothing that I have ever seen that even suggests that they are offered overseas. Again, what I see are foreign reprints that use many of the variant covers but with different interiors, or covers that are unique to the overseas market that we don't get here. It is a different market and should not be a part of the conversation. -J.

Here's the things we know about what goes into the print run of an incentive variant: 1. Distribution ratio. 2. Diamond Sales numbers for the regular issue. Here's a list of things we DON'T know that go into the print number of an incentive variant. 1. How many international issues were ordered. 2. How many orders qualified for how many variants. 3. How many of the qualified orders actually bought the incentive variants. 4. How many reserves are ordered by Diamond (and internationally). 5. What is the rounding to the nearest full case or palette (or other unit) in terms of ordering by Diamond 6. If there are any additional discounts or thresholds to be met either for ordering in general or for this specific issue (if Marvel or DC wants to push it harder). E.G. We're at 900 issues ordered so far, but at 1000 we get a discount or if we order five sets of 1000 comics each they'll toss in an extra 100 each, etc. And what if these specials are just for this month, or this season, like a Christmas bonus or Stan Lee's birthday or whatever, or in promo of a movie. 7. #6 is just Diamond telling Marvel how much they want, what about similar things for international dealers. 8. #6 and #7 are just about how much the distributors are ordering from Marvel. Similar specials, reserves, making full unit orders, freebies, etc. can happen when Marvel orders from the printer, and that doesn't even account for: 9. Marvel ordering more on top of what distributors ordered for: a. Extras for artists, creators, staff (don't underestimate this, this can get into the hundreds pretty easily) b. Special promotions - give out an extra freebie to stores, advertising c. Special events - company picnics, board meetings, charity, etc. d. Extra anticipated re-orders due to expected high sales or popularity, or an estimated low quality of print run (but what if the print run turned out ok?) e. Any other reason they want. E.G. The printers gave us a deal, so we just ordered 1,000 of everything that month that was 1:50 or higher. 10. The printer themselves prints extra reserves based on the Marvel orders, most likely a percentage of total orders. If you had a situation wear the print run turned out exceptionally well, but EVERYONE ordered reserves along the way AND the printer printed EXTRA reserves, that's could already easily be 30-60% higher than the original number ordered by LCS's. Any one of these things may not seem like very much individually as factors, but on a variant where someone THINKS there's between 400-600 or even 1000-2000 out there, when the number printed could quite reasonably possibly be 500-1000+ more than you originally thought, the difference could be huge. And even before considering all these reasonable special factors, we DON'T know numbers about how many were ordered on a 'normal' month. And we don't know how often even those 'normal' months occur, whether 2/3 months are normal, or half, or a third of months. Try this one. On Feb 24, 2008 the Lakers beat the Sonics in Seattle. The Sonics scored 91 points. How many free throws did Kobe take? With that info, how valid is your guess. Yes, you could be right. But...you couldn't know unless you looked it up, or even guess in good faith, unless you wanted to say something useless like between 4 and 30 free throws. With just the date, the opponent, the winner, and the opponents score total, how close would you get if on guessing Kobe's free throw attempts for the next ten games (without ANY additional info)? Note that this is still way easier to guess than variant print run This is what I like to see! This is very eloquently said and states common sense in systematic and step by step way that even a insufficiently_thoughtful_person should be able to get it. Uh, not really. There are at least a dozen more assumptions being made in that convoluted analysis than there are when someone simply estimates based on Comichron's distribution reports (which is also, incidentally, the closest thing to concrete, industry accepted information that we actually have). -J.

Here's the things we know about what goes into the print run of an incentive variant: 1. Distribution ratio. 2. Diamond Sales numbers for the regular issue. Here's a list of things we DON'T know that go into the print number of an incentive variant. 1. How many international issues were ordered. 2. How many orders qualified for how many variants. 3. How many of the qualified orders actually bought the incentive variants. 4. How many reserves are ordered by Diamond (and internationally). 5. What is the rounding to the nearest full case or palette (or other unit) in terms of ordering by Diamond 6. If there are any additional discounts or thresholds to be met either for ordering in general or for this specific issue (if Marvel or DC wants to push it harder). E.G. We're at 900 issues ordered so far, but at 1000 we get a discount or if we order five sets of 1000 comics each they'll toss in an extra 100 each, etc. And what if these specials are just for this month, or this season, like a Christmas bonus or Stan Lee's birthday or whatever, or in promo of a movie. 7. #6 is just Diamond telling Marvel how much they want, what about similar things for international dealers. 8. #6 and #7 are just about how much the distributors are ordering from Marvel. Similar specials, reserves, making full unit orders, freebies, etc. can happen when Marvel orders from the printer, and that doesn't even account for: 9. Marvel ordering more on top of what distributors ordered for: a. Extras for artists, creators, staff (don't underestimate this, this can get into the hundreds pretty easily) b. Special promotions - give out an extra freebie to stores, advertising c. Special events - company picnics, board meetings, charity, etc. d. Extra anticipated re-orders due to expected high sales or popularity, or an estimated low quality of print run (but what if the print run turned out ok?) e. Any other reason they want. E.G. The printers gave us a deal, so we just ordered 1,000 of everything that month that was 1:50 or higher. 10. The printer themselves prints extra reserves based on the Marvel orders, most likely a percentage of total orders. If you had a situation wear the print run turned out exceptionally well, but EVERYONE ordered reserves along the way AND the printer printed EXTRA reserves, that's could already easily be 30-60% higher than the original number ordered by LCS's. Any one of these things may not seem like very much individually as factors, but on a variant where someone THINKS there's between 400-600 or even 1000-2000 out there, when the number printed could quite reasonably possibly be 500-1000+ more than you originally thought, the difference could be huge. And even before considering all these reasonable special factors, we DON'T know numbers about how many were ordered on a 'normal' month. And we don't know how often even those 'normal' months occur, whether 2/3 months are normal, or half, or a third of months. Try this one. On Feb 24, 2008 the Lakers beat the Sonics in Seattle. The Sonics scored 91 points. How many free throws did Kobe take? With just the date, the opponent, the winner, and the opponents score total, how close would you get if on guessing Kobe's free throw attempts for the next ten games (without ANY additional info)? Note that this is still way easier to guess than variant print run The international market is narrow and an entirely different market and should not even be discussed in the context of estimating a ratio variant's print run, since they are not even the same books in many instances. -J.

Few things.... 1. Who is saying they print "far more than they need"? That's the point: we don't know, but trying to estimate on an unrelated number is misleading at best.That's the reason why the numbers shouldn't be compared, above and beyond any other concerns. For every X amount of copies of this regular book you order, you get/can purchase 1 copy of this incentive. That's the only concrete information we have about the incentive, and the publisher doesn't owe anybody anything beyond fulfilling those orders. That does not therefore mean that the two print runs are tied together by that distribution number. They're not. The publishers print what they want, and always have, for whatever reasons they have, whether it's precisely what they need down to the copy, or 10 times what they need to fulfill the incentive. We don't know. Yes, the estimated sales of the regular version establishes an estimated BASELINE of possible incentive copies printed, true, but it's only a baseline. That is, "there were at least X copies printed." But the other side is open ended. 2. Who determines what Marvel "needs"? Doesn't Marvel determine what Marvel needs, for their own purposes? 3. Are you aware that Marvel warehoused around 3,000 Spiderman #1 Platinums for 15 years, until they were purchased by Todd McDevitt's New Dimension Comics around 2005? Why did Marvel print "far more than they needed", and then pay to store them for a decade and a half? Because they thought they needed them, and when they no longer thought that, they sold them. And I guarantee you, McDevitt didn't pay anywhere near what they were worth on the market at the time. 4. Marvel prints millions of comic books every year. They aren't going to have much problem paying Diamond to store whatever amount they print above and beyond what they need. 5. It doesn't cost Marvel much more to print an extra X amount of copies than it does the regular book, since everything but the cover is the same. It costs Marvel about 50 cents a copy...and that's probably a high estimate for the big boys (vs. around $1.00/copy for 5-6k indy books.) So, if they are "blowing out" incentives for $1.25, $1.50, $2 each...they're not losing money. They're just selling books that they had about the same amount into as any other book, for about the same amount as they would get for any other book. And you're right, they're not selling anything at a markup later on. Marvel doesn't care about that. They're not a back issue dealer. To Marvel and DC and others, however, these books are no different at all from every other book. It didn't cost them much more, if anything, to print them, it didn't cost them much more, if anything, to store them, and if they sell them for the same price they get for other books, they're not "selling them for pennies." You're thinking like a collector, or a dealer....not a publisher. 6. Nobody unintentionally prints much of anything. No. If anything, it is closer to a MAXIMUM CEILING of potential copies printed, since not every store will order enough quantities of a book to qualify for the incentive. But in reality, once you factor back in printing overages for damages (placed at 10-15% tops by boardies knowledgeable of the printing industry) and courtesy copies, rounded up to the nearest case pack, it is VERY reasonable to use Comichron's N.A. distribution numbers to ESTIMATE a ratio variant's print run (which is all that I have seen anyone do on here, and they should be able to do so without being harassed, barked at or condescended to every single time). -J.

A single sale in a 9.8 (the only currently graded 9.8, which obviously influenced the price ) is not enough data to get it on the list. But I'm sure we'll all be keeping an eye on this one going forward. -J.

What you're saying makes perfect sense to anyone who's reading and doesn't have an axe to grind. Even boardies with independent backgrounds in publishing have come on and validated on more than one occasion exactly what you and Larry are saying. But it will never stop until you either stop responding or agree with the preposterous conceit that no one has any business even estimating the print run of a ratio variant, ever. There's no changing his (and a couple others') opinion on the matter so there's no point in allowing yourself to come to aggravation over it. -J. PS: I owe you an edible arrangement for that deal you gave me on that 9.8 Nyx 3 a couple months back.

Some of you guys are crazy !! 450/675 is a good guess... key word used above is GUESS ! its not a stretch ! And chuck can I ask what kind of relationship you have with your diamond rep? its a fact they will not give you the exact print run but they will tell you in detail how things work. In my 14 years of dealing with them I have gotten some very valuable information from people that have advanced to higher positions in that company ! I believe it to be reliable... Larry has some communication issues but most of what he says about diamond is spot on. To say that the retail program is a fraud is crazy.... the variants print runs are in case packs and estimated... when the incentive numbers come in lower than estimations there are surplus. The surplus then is usually liquidated in one form or another to at least cover some costs. I bet some of the variant ordering is done with common sense and common sense on the book in question including the London boys would be 450/675 and because of the low print numbers that would explain the surplus. JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 VENOM VAR MARVEL COMICS (W) Kieron Gillen (A) Richard Elson (CA) TBD THE SON OF SATAN GUEST-STARS! Case Pack 225 estimated North America run 23,869 lets guess 10,000 everywhere else GUESS... 34,000 printed.. 150-160 cases... including damage or overrun. that would be 680 1:50 books... so to cover that number if every retailer ordered 50 copies they would need 4 cases... that's 1000 books. so depending on rest of the world print numbers and retailers order I dont think its anywhere near 1000... Where is the print run info for overseas? that's a key number that would tighten up this argument... its been said over and over there are no hard numbers but there is common sense and information on how certain company's operate... The ratios are distribution numbers...that is, how the books are distributed to retailers...not print numbers. As said before, Comichron only records sales to North American shops via Diamond. Therefore, those numbers are not the print run of the books. The distribution ratios are not tied to the print runs of the incentives, and never have been. Therefore, every attempt to tie those numbers together is in error from the start. Indeed, there is common sense....but it's not common sense to make assumptions based on incomplete information, is it? Hey RMA those numbers are used to create the print runs... then there is a certain damage or overprint percentage... the numbers most certainly are tied together please show me any info that SAYS DIFFERENT??? Why should he when it's easier to simply declare someone "wrong" whilst simultaneously mistaking (and representing) his own (uninformed) opinions as "facts"? -J.

Yep. Vomit. You just can't help yourselves. Thanks again guys ! -J.

yes, the thing that happened in your spoiler was super stupid, but I liked the rest. I too will check later this week for someone to do some screencap ID's, I actually didn't recognize anyone. -J.

That sounds on the pricey side. -J.