Jaydogrules

As others have mentioned, the Joker is arguably (if not likely) the 3rd biggest character in the DC Universe. There is no wrong answer when it comes to personal preference. Personally, I feel Tec #33 to be a highly underrated book. The origin of Batman may be the most well known story in the history of comics. But there are a great many factors contributing to Batman #1's extensive value and perpetual growth. Hey there Wayne-Tec, you're definitely preaching to the choir about Tec 33 . While still clearly a highly sought and expensive book, Tecs 29 and 31 have surpassed it, at least in value, pretty much based on the "coolness" of their covers. I'm not so sure 35 has anymore, at least not after some of this past year's public auction results, and a seeming mini-resurgence of 33. I don't know if Tec 33 is "under rated", but it is probably under valued compared to those other pre-Robin Tecs. I think a lot of collectors have been fine with bypassing Tec 33 and going straight for the Bats 1 because it contains a reprint of that origin story, along with the first appearance of the Joker. But more importantly, I think people dig that #1 on the cover and the fact that it's Batman's first solo title. Put that together with the fact that the vast, vast majority of the collector base will never be able to afford an actual Tec 27, and you have the perfect storm for a highly sought and uber expensive book. As for me, when I break it down, I do think it would be cool to have that first appearance of the Joker, but not at the low grade price points the book currently sits at, no matter how big of a villain he is. There is no Joker without Batman, and that's just a lot of money to me for a first villain appearance. I would probably feel A LOT differently about it if Tec 33 did not contain the origin story first, and Bats 1 did. Then I would probably gun for the book and might think its current price levels were right on target. But as it stands, Tec 33 contains that first told origin, and that book is really the turning point of the Batman character....where he actually became the Batman, and not just another rip off of the Shadow. The fact that Bats 1 reprints it so soon after the Tec 33 came out only highlights the significance of that. It was also his first 12 page story if I'm not mistaken. It is by this same logic, by the way, that I don't see any reason to spend big bucks on an ASM 1, when there's already an AF 15 in my collection, and I'm not going to want to spend $15K or some crazy amount (by SA standards) for the first appearance of the Green Goblin or the Vulture. Like you said though, everybody has their preferences and priorities in their collection, and if I had unlimited funds I would gladly own both! -J.

Great pick up! What a way to start off the year. (thumbs u -J.

I think I have said why, but I can say it again. The goal of most shillers isnt the one auction, but moving an illiquid market. (which they hold assets in). The auction got people talking about it on this forum....and no book likely ever changed hands. Had a guppy bid on top and not forced out the throw away account, who knows what we'd be talking about now ....but like an earlier poster noted, that sale does not even represent a recent high. I never doubt that there are ebay shenanigans going on fro time to time, but with a book like Saga 1 where there is a bona fide demand, plenty of copies, and more than enough verifiable sales, it would be pretty difficult for that kind of scheme to work on a book like this. IMO of course. (thumbs u -J.

...and you still haven't explained why you think a "group" of people would conspire to bid up a single modern comic a measly $15 or so over GPA 90 day average.... -J. It's 20-25 over the past few ebay sales, which is a significant percentage. If you want to know more about group shilling, there are people here far better than me at explaining how and why they do it. But the one thing you should realize when a shilled up bid auction fails. 1.) Someone has to take the "winning bid" (and the consequences) 2.) The winning bid is LESS than what they were trying to get, as no fish took the bait. Judging the ending price of a failed shill bid as "not worth doing" is silly and beside the point, it was the REAL bidder coming in on top that he was looking for. The throw away account with 0 feedback are often used to "win it" when no suckers take the bait, and the price will be below what they were hoping to shill too. If someone had bought a Saga #1 for $200 again, what effect would that have on the market? Look up "Low Liquidity Markets" and "Marketing Moving" for the answers... I know all about that, I am just wondering why you think it would be worth it for a group of people to do that when the difference is only a few dollars higher than the 90 day average. There are far, far too many of Saga #1's out there and changing hands for it to make a significant impact. Even if this was an attempt at a pump and dump, the demand for Saga #1's is already real enough where I just don't see a few dollars more on an auction or two to be worth the coordinated effort it would take to accomplish this. -J.

...and you still haven't explained why you think a "group" of people would conspire to bid up a single modern comic a measly $15 or so over GPA 90 day average.... -J.

I mean that the winner is likely a fake account with 0 feedback, so book likely wont actually change hands. All the shillers know about the % bid history, it really doesnt mean much. Only covers a short period of time, and many know how to bypass it. People run multiple accounts and work in groups. I have no doubt many of the bidders on that auction are legit. I am very skeptical of an auction beating the current average price of sales as recently as a week or two ago on ebay by such a high %, when the winning bidder has 0 bids. Only two accounts bid it up over what others have sold for recently, then the winning bidder comes in and its a brand new account with no feedback. It could be legit, but odds are not in its favor. To what end would a person or a group of person do such a thing on a 180 book? -J.

INDEED. Now please pass the martini and get back on topic. -J.

Ended at $180. Two new bidders came in at the end. Not bad at all. Winning bidder has no feedback, looks like shill accounts bidding it up, ending with a throw away account as the winner. I'm not so sure about that, unless you mean it's a few people bidding up every Saga 1 cgc. In order of highest bid placed. 48 Feedback - 0% bid history with seller ($177.99) 133 Feedback - 13% bid history with seller (172.99) 32 Feedback - 62% bid history seller seller (172.00) 59 Feedback - 4% bid history with seller (155.00) Indeed. And there are a couple of other ongoing CGC 9.8 auctions now, both in the $140 and $170 shipped range with a few days left to go yet. -J.

Thanks everyone. The two main problems with the book are some staining on the bottom left corner and if you look closely by Thor's thigh, there are ring marks from a cup. Kind of makes you wish you could go back in time and smack the schmuck upside the back of his head before he decides to use the first appearance of Thor as a coaster. -J.

This subject has come up before. I have a few thoughts on it. While rarity no doubt can play a factor in driving up the prices of certain GA books, a book does not need to be incredibly rare by GA standards to maintain an extremely high value, with the potential to trend upwards. Lets compare Batman #1 to Action #7 for instance. Both are incredibly desirable, but Action #7 is considerably more rare. Content for content, there is no competition: Batman #1 1st app. of the Joker. 1st app. of Catwoman. 2nd app. of the Joker. 2nd app. of Hugo Strange. 3rd app. of Robin. Last Pre-Robin Tec story. Action Comics #7 7th app. of Superman. Circus story. One book's content was used as reference material by Christopher Nolan for one of the most successful films in the history of modern cinema, the latter sports a really cool cover. The first appearance of the Joker is the only thing that turns me on about the book, and for me, the price of it at its current levels just does not warrant that kind of investment, especially with a Tec 33 already in hand. I would rather just keep playing the lotto and wait for a Tec 27 . But that's just me and my little opinion. I give props to anyone that has a copy in any condition, as it is, without a doubt, a very highly sought after comic book. (thumbs u -J.

Nuff said. -J.

Let's see a scan I think GAtor means he turned down an offer of $55K because he had already sold it for that, and it would take $60K to buy it back (or another one of similar eye appeal in grade). -J. I understood that. My post was to solicit a scan from him in case I am willing to pay his price Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding? Didn't GAtor state that he no longer has that book/already sold? -J. I sold book this summer for 55K on time payments...I still "own" book till it is paid off (will be next year ) owner says he would sell for a 10% profit, hence it would take 60K (or so) to purchase it (thumbs u Gotcha. So it is technically available, via the new owner who is trying to flip it even though he is not actually the owner nor in possession of it. Man I love this business. -J.

Let's see a scan I think GAtor means he turned down an offer of $55K because he had already sold it for that, and it would take $60K to buy it back (or another one of similar eye appeal in grade). -J. I understood that. My post was to solicit a scan from him in case I am willing to pay his price Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding? Didn't GAtor state that he no longer has that book/already sold? -J.

Let's see a scan I think GAtor means he turned down an offer of $55K because he had already sold it for that, and it would take $60K to buy it back (or another one of similar eye appeal in grade). -J.

60K for a lowgrade funny book (which isnt even the 1st app.) = A tough market to enter. It takes deep pockets to play in the deep end of the pool these days ... With a little luck they'll come down ... ....and for not a particularly rare one. At least not by GA standards. -J. AF 15 is even less rare (by a wide margin) but still commands big dollars. Demand always outstrips supply with those two books To be sure. But my brain can wrap itself around the AF 15 prices a little bit more easily given that it's the first appearance of Marvel's all time biggest superhero. Bats 1 is definitely a pricey book considering that it's basically only the first appearance of a couple of villains. Even if one of them is the Joker. -J.

60K for a lowgrade funny book (which isnt even the 1st app.) = A tough market to enter. It takes deep pockets to play in the deep end of the pool these days ... With a little luck they'll come down ... ....and for not a particularly rare one. At least not by GA standards. -J.

Get it graded. Mine has a pretty deep, color breaking spine tick near the bottom staple, and it got a 9.8. A 9.8 is not a 10, certain minor defects are allowable. Seems a lot of folks forget that and view a 9.8 as a de facto mint grade that only visually "perfect" books should or do get. It isn't. It's only a NM/M grade. -J.

A very important book to be sure, but I believe the sheer number of surviving copies is what holds the value down. I think it is under valued as well. -J.

Spidey78 you make a great point. I think that's why you see so few graded ones for sale and NEVER any 9.8s. You would think that if people thought they had a 9.6/9.8 raw that most would have been sent in to get graded by now so they could sell at a premium. But the vast majority of the ones that sell are selling raw. Spidey sales weren't great when this issue came out, like you said it was a fairly nothing storyline at the time, so it's also rarer than a typical 1:50. To give a little perspective....right now there are only 18, 9.8 678, VenoMJ's on the census after nearly two years. In barely two months there are already 33, SSM #20 Campbell variants on there. -J.

And out of curiosity, did you also score a 667 Del'Otto from your same LCS? That one is over five times rarer than the 678 VenoMJ. -J. Sadly I didn't, and that was because of my own stupidity, I didn't place the order for it . What's great about the Newbury Comics stores is that they (in my case at least) always get my variants and never miss them. They charge a standard price for all variants. The highest price for any variant is a 1:200 for $99.00 and they always grade 9.8. I haven't missed a single SSM variant yet. Those that are con exclusives I need to get elsewhere though. I feel your pain on the 667, I didn't reserve/order either. Was still worn out from the 666 event. Blech! My LCS did get one, and I had to hustle/bribe/threaten and ultimately pay pretty big and include a trade for the one copy he got. Glad I did, as it seems to now be virtually non-existent on the secondary market, with 678 rapidly following in its footsteps. 678 and 667, the pride and joy of any Spidey variant run. -J.

Nice looking 2.5 there, congrats! -J.

And out of curiosity, did you also score a 667 Del'Otto from your same LCS? That one is over five times rarer than the 678 VenoMJ. -J.

Still chugging along even at lower grades. A raw, that even the seller said was "at best" an 8.0 just sold for $425. Madness. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251365151705?redirect=mobile -J.

That. Again. But don't lose too much sleep over it trying to figure it out. -J.

My LCS held it for me for $75. That is the most he has ever charged me for a variant new. But it was his only one and he was convinced it would grade 9.8. He was right. Love that SS 20 too by the way. Just sent that one off to CGC as well. -J.