VintageComics

NM 98 auction is now up to $865, although there is a one Feedback noob pushing the price up. Hopefully it's not a shill. Even without the one Feedback noob, the next highest bid was at $855 - well over the 90 day GPA average. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Mutants-98-CGC-9-8-1st-app-Deadpool-Ryan-Reynolds-X-men-Liefield-CGC-1-/131736726481?hash=item1eac1eebd1:g:kzUAAOSwnLdWs~5g

Yup. I remember thinking $450 was nuts for the book in 9.8 and sold them as fast as I could get my hands on 'em. But I knew zero about the character (I got out of collecting right before or right around the time he was introduced) and when I started going to shows again in the early 2000's I actually did not know who the red costumed character walking around shows was. I initially thought it was an l alternative Spider-man.

I'm not saying that Deadpool is going to overtake Wolverine in popularity - although anything is possible. What I'm saying is that we are having the same discussions. I'm also saying that Deadpool's popularity is uncannily high and eyebrows are raising from all camps, those for and against.

I actually did mix you up because I was fairly certain that earlier on in another discussion you discredited dealer's input completely because you felt that they were biased and therefore not trustworthy. I think it was the Hulk #1 discussions last year. So what if dealers price their books at GPA or eBay auctions. I still don't understand why you feel that is a negative thing? Fair enough. And my response to that was, I'd love to see price averages in all grades pre and post Feb 12th. Non-educated buyers have so much more information at their fingertips than I did when I stepped back in the water after a blackout in the 90's. I got back in just as CGC was starting, eBay was still relatively new and the census wasn't established. It's only in towards the end of the last decade that I realized that I could literally 'Google' anything for an answer. Youngin's were doing it but I wasn't and I always though to myself 'dayum, that was a quick response by that board member - how did he know that?' Now we are living in an age where literally every - no, any piece of information you want is searchable, and young people (in their 30's and younger - boy I'm showing my age when I consider 30 young) know this. The facade is fading fast. Sure there are going to be information or market dynamic knowledge gaps out there, but just as you have dishonest business practices, you are also going to have fair dealers who don't rip people off. I could have held out for $900 to the buyer in Singapore but I didn't. I sold for below GPA average. It's gotta be just a lack of chemistry between us. I get that with some people. I wasn't really arguing with you as much as trying to paint a side to the picture that your numbers weren't showing.

Thanks for sidestepping the question and avoiding to answer whether it's a flat market or not. I have no idea what will happen in the future. I'm not talking about the future. I'm talking about now. Deadpool is hot and the book seems to be holding his own. If you want to rehash this entire argument, just use the search function and read about Hulk #181 circa 2003-2007. Does anyone here remember that? There was a discussion nearly every week about how Hulk #181 and 'this can't go on', 'it has to be a bubble' , 'how much higher can it go', etc, etc. In fact, you can actually just cut and paste most of those threads and just substitute 'NM #98' for 'Hulk #181' and it would for all practical purposes be the same discussion all over again. Here's the new boss, same as the old boss.

I can't comment on this as I have no idea. You were the one picking outliers when you are trying to form a position that the book is 'flat' or 'just increasing by 1-2%'. If you're talking about using CGC 9.8 as an example, it's the only market I know closely. But I would suggest that the CGC market as a whole is also not a good example of representing the entire market as most copies changing hands are unslabbed. The only way to understand that market is to experience it and see it either over the counter at a store or at shows, where volume can be translated into buying patterns. Of course, you discredit that because it's obviously biased by dealers who are trying to pump the book. Sorry, gotta do it ---> Again, I don't put any value in any of those comments and I don't think many serious buyers do. I roll my eyes when I see stuff like 'rare', 'HTF!', 'LQQK!' etc, but it's a free market - well, relatively free anyway. Are you saying that all of these labels are market manipulation? I don't think many people take them seriously. I think your statement might hold water in 2001 when slabbing started. I don't think it holds water in the internet age any longer. You are the one making laughable assumptions and mixing and overlapping discussion points in an effort to make your point stronger. While most dealers don't travel outside of the US, Canada or England Harley Yee does and he has customers in China, SIngapore, Denmark, Germany, Australia, New Zealand. My last sale of a NM 98 was to someone in Singapore. You tell me if it's a cultural phenomenon all over the world.

You're only citing possible supply and not taking into account demand. And you're using sarcasm to try to make your point. The percentage increase/decrease isn't really relevant because this is a discussion about whether the book is appreciating or depreciating but if you want parse hairs, you are using a small, selective window and it shows how little you know about this book. The book has been rising for years as Deadpool's popularity grew. When I started going to cons regularly in 2003 you didn't see many Deadpool cosplay costumes. That's probably because the kids who grew up reading Deadpool either didn't know about cosplay or weren't old enough to do it yet. But as the years went on, I started seeing more and more Deadpool costumes and by the time you hit the late 2000's it seemed like there was a Deadpool costume in every aisle of a show. I also remember when you could get a copy in 9.8 for $50-100 in the early 2000's and nobody was slabbing this book. Then it became a $200 book, then a $300 book, then a $400 book, then a $450 book. That's when I personally started seeking out raw 9.8 to copies to slab. Then it became a $500-600 book before it went to an average of $800 (and still climbing by the way). Sure the book plateaued for a year, but isn't that true for every market even when it's on it's way up? AF #15, Hulk #1, Marvel #1, Superman #1 have all behaved the same way. Is this what you would describe a flat market?

Theatrics? It's a chat forum and I'm showing how confused I am with your leaps of logic. Are you trying to discredit me by accusing me of something not germane to the discussion? How about this one? People hoarding books when they were new (25 years ago - that's over 2 decades ago) and accusing people selling using price manipulation now are two completely different things. Do you think hoarders bought these books nearly 3 decades ago keeping their fingers crossed that the book would explode only to slowly release them in the wild today? Or are you saying that people are hoarding them now and releasing them slowly into the wild? You'd be wrong on both accounts - the book sells and it sells quickly. There's no need to release them slowly as they get gobbled up. I have zero experience in price manipulation because I don't do it unless you call waiting to get my price on a product price manipulation. If that is the case you may have come up with a new name for capitalism. I can understand how someone might be able to price manipulate a market where the product is truly rare and desirable but in the case of a book with literally 1000's of unrelated sellers with 10,000's of sale I have no idea how that would be accomplished. Technically, you're right. But there was a $988 sale and a $960 sale within the last two weeks...that's $112 and $140 from the $11000 price you cited. I still don't understand your point. The entire concept of capitalism is for a seller to get as much as they can for a product and it has always been the buyer that controls the market price, not the seller. People are free to ask what the want for a product. Buyers are free to pay what they want for a product. Does the new math mean capitalism = price fixing? Another tangent. The majority of people spending money on comics know these books are not rare. I don't understand your point. We're talking about New Mutants #98 not variants, Sig Series or individualized copies with something unique about them. You're fixed on a position and trying to prove it rather than just take the data for what it is.

It's $300 higher than some recent sales, $200 higher than some recent sales and $100 higher than some recent sales. There are also Make An Offer options. I fail to see how that is an issue. How do 1000's of different sellers price control one issue? How is the rareness being misrepresented?

No idea. 9.8 auction is now up to $811 with 3 days to go. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Mutants-98-CGC-9-8-1st-app-Deadpool-Ryan-Reynolds-X-men-Liefield-CGC-1-/131736726481?hash=item1eac1eebd1:g:kzUAAOSwnLdWs~5g

It's called "style" Malvin You can call it style, but if FM's name wasn't attached to that art you would think it was a joke. That right hand and joker chin/smile are inexcusable, even for a legend. Sorry, just my honest opinion. If FM's name wasn't attached you'd still know it was FM. That's what style is. Some artists work their entire lives and are not as recognizable as Miller was after just a couple of years.

It happened with Bat books in 1989, but that's the last time it happened. Excellent point. I forgot about Batmania.

I would agree that I don't think the book is going to drop in price significantly soon. My main point is that I do not believe NM 98 to be a good investment versus other comics long-term (>10 years). I had no idea what you position was as I haven't really followed the thread in a while. I just know it's extremely strong. Like I said a long time ago in this thread: one store owner told me Deadpool carries his whole store. Another guy who is not even a comic book collector any longer has wanted one his whole life. He's not very well off and likely doesn't shop on the internet, he just never had a chance to own one. I gave him one for Christmas a couple of years ago. The dude almost cried. I would venture to say that Deadpool is more popular than most average people (or vintage comic collectors) realize.

It would be interesting to average out all prices after Feb 12 and compare them to prices before Feb 12. I'm of the opinion that this character is still picking up steam. And that is saying something considering it's probably the most commonly asked about and cosplayed character of the last year or two after maybe Wolverine.

I didn't say the book was on fire. This is what I said. You said it was false and I proved that it wasn't. Now you're not a different tangent trying to discredit what I said by saying 2% is not a lot. My entire point was that the book seems to have not only stayed popular rather than decreased after the movie buzz was over, but actually increased in popularity after the movie, which is extremely rare. And the reason I said it is to display how popular Deadpool is. Second, I don't need proof. I can see the market. Feel free to dig it up. Yawn. How about the fact that the 90 day average is down in almost every grade? 19 red arrows versus 9 green? I don't care either way, I just thought it was odd that demand was so strong in 9.8. I usually only look at 9.8 prices on this book. Like I said, I guess we'll see where we are in a year.

I didn't say the book was on fire. This is what I said. You said it was false and I proved that it wasn't. Now you're not a different tangent trying to discredit what I said by saying 2% is not a lot. My entire point was that the book seems to have not only stayed popular rather than decreased after the movie buzz was over, but actually increased in popularity after the movie, which is extremely rare. And the reason I said it is to display how popular Deadpool is. Second, I don't need proof. I can see the market. Feel free to dig it up.

God, you noobs are so annoying. I was just going by my experience in the market place based on prices I see and demand that I am experiencing which is enough for me to make business decisions on, but here you go: I just calculated the average for all 48 sales from Feb 12th (movie release) to today. The average is $838.83 which is well over the 90 day average of $823 and the 12 month average of $812. So it's not factually false, it's factually accurate. Second, it's well established that most if not all (I haven't done a study - feel free to do so) drop off after the movie hits the theaters.

Looks pretty flat to me (for almost 2 years). It does? Look at the 9.8 averages. They are rising. The last sale was $900, there is an auction running for another 3 days that is at $750 and I just sold one for $800 pretty quick (something that was tougher to do a few months ago) and there were 3 other people interested in the book when it sold. I personally think there is another surge on the book. Look at the control charts on the right (24 Months and 12 Months boxes), the book is not surging, maybe ever so slightly up. Statistically flat. :shrug: You mean as opposed to a significant drop for most movie books? I guess time will tell.

Looks pretty flat to me (for almost 2 years). It does? Look at the 9.8 averages. They are rising. The last sale was $900, there is an auction running for another 3 days that is at $750 and I just sold one for $800 pretty quick (something that was tougher to do a few months ago) and there were 3 other people interested in the book when it sold. I personally think there is another surge on the book.

New Mutants #98 is the 1st book that I've seen rise in price after the movie was released. Just sayin'

Yeah but you've also owned a Batmobile. We're talking about mere humans here.

GoCollect.com follows both.

Thanks. The book looked and felt brand new and pages were snow white before I slabbed it.

I know who owns the book and I offered it to a few prospective buyers and there were no nibbles at anywhere close to half of the asking price. Showcase #4 was a slow book for a long time, regardless of it's value in OSPG. For whatever reason, DC buyers in the past just have not spent as much on SA keys as Marvel buyers have. I did sell several Showcase #4's during the run up including a 9.2, 9.0, 8.0 and several lower grade copies but haven't sold one in over a year but I have followed the market. That's why I disagree with blanket statements like 'Hulk #1 is #3 now'. In lower grades SC #4 may be trumping it because of relative availability but in higher grades Hulk #1 still a more expensive book in my opinion. Also, I've learned that peculating what a book would sell for is futile. Only the people shelling out the money know what they'll pay for it. The AF #15 thread is a perfect example of that. Many people thought the book would hit $500K easy and it came about 10% short. I do have a customer who wants a VF or higher copy of SC #4 if someone want to part with one.

More Jaydogrules speak. A Hulk #1 in 9.2 sold for $300K twice. There is still a 9.4 copy that sits in a collection and is not for sale. Meanwhile a single highest graded Showcase #4 CGC 9.6 had no takers last year, even at $300K.