VintageComics

Depends on the amount of resto. A massive overhaul might cost you $2500 or so, most resto will be under that. PS, that Action #10 sounds like it's right up my alley. Put me in line when you decide you don't love it anymore!

Yep. Going along with this, I think many have felt that the market has long overreacted to certain slight levels of resto. But market data is what it is. IF we see significant price movement in converting purple slight to blue conserved, I think there's little doubt people will start investing in that process. But, the market is what it is, and we shall soon see. As far as I know, people have been removing resto for as long as I've been familiar with CGC. The greater the price gaps the more incentive there is to do so. I think once people become educated with the new scale, it should help close those price gaps as people feel more comfortable with restored books.

It's possible but the book would look like it was used for target practice.

14 years ago the difference between Slight, Moderate and Extensive (with 2 designations for each - pro or amateur, giving 6 possible designations) didn't matter as much. CGC has since adopted a new scale that is better at describing in detail what was done to the book. Whether someone decides this is worth resubbing the book for is an entirely different issue. I'm sure a number cruncher somewhere figured in resub value as part of the model but over all, it's a much more effective system at conveying information and one that should have been in place from the start. I've been a proponent for a more detailed resto scale since I joined the GA forum.

There are going to be 'troll groups' wherever there is a community. It's human nature to group up with like minds. Their intentions may not even be dishonorable and they might have the best intentions in mind but they continue to 'troll'. It can be perceptions, jealousy, personality conflicts or they simply refuse to 'agree to disagree' but those small conflicts that people call trolling can and do continue to grow larger unless people put active efforts into trying to prevent them. It's an unfortunate side effect of having large groups gathered. I think you just defined democracy. Good point. I do have a long way of saying things, don't I? IMO trolling is just different personalities negatively interacting, kind of like a bad romance but there are some that do it with malice. Those are hard to prove, though.

There are several variables at play (change of standards, subjective grading standards, more/different work done to the book) and it's difficult to know which ones caused the new result. For example, if the new resto work makes the book look better than the old book that alone could have changed the way the book was perceived by graders.

People who are not familiar with CGC grading think CGC grading is too tight. You hear it all the time: "Thought this would grade higher" "They were tight on this one" "6.5 looks like a 7.5"

Because you want to be fair to both buyer and seller, and when I first joined the CGC chat forum I thought that they were grading nazis. That's how many people who aren't fluent with CGC graded books still think. They think that they are too tight. For me it was a transition period and I learned not only to grade 'better' (meaning more like CGC) but I also learned that people will pay higher percentages for a tightly graded, so it all balanced out. But that only comes with experience. Agreed, and that is why I said some people's ranges are closer than others. I'll probably agree with most collectors and dealers who either collect or deal (or both) with CGC graded books.

Fair enough. Although just to be fair, when I joined this forum I was always selling comics cause I was tight on cash. Anybody who was here 10 years ago will remember that. I'd also add that $100K on consignment is not a whole lot of dough to raise a family on.

The words in my post mean exactly what they were chosen to mean. I believe that the only thing you don't understand is the grin, which is meaningless by definition. That is ridiculous. You have seen what I have asked, and your post is not intelligible as you think it is. If you want to reply, good, otherwise I think I will pretty much skip your "smart" posts from now on. Personally, I don't think the 'swipe' at Chip's financial situation is very nice. (thumbs u Personally, I don't care for sellers who use it as a selling tool There are probably a hundred posts a month in the selling forums about "oops, money is tight" or "I've overspent" or "I need to take my pet to the vet". Is that any different? I agree that playing people's emotions for profit is not the way to go, but I'm not sure he did that. He did offer to work for his money by selling on consignment for boardies (and he even advertised it in the appropriate forums ) but it's just human nature to look for some commiseration or empathy. Did he actually abuse that? I don't know - I haven't followed many of his posts.

The words in my post mean exactly what they were chosen to mean. I believe that the only thing you don't understand is the grin, which is meaningless by definition. That is ridiculous. You have seen what I have asked, and your post is not intelligible as you think it is. If you want to reply, good, otherwise I think I will pretty much skip your "smart" posts from now on. Personally, I don't think the 'swipe' at Chip's financial situation is very nice. (thumbs u

I used to sell raw books on eBay and finally stopped when I went to becoming a full time dealer. Even though I rarely had returns, I decided to slab everything to avoid disagreeing with anyone because it's less hassle. I'm of the school of thought of paying a little more to save a headache later. Back in the day though, when I was new to selling on eBay I was a different grader than I am today (even though I had few complaints). CGC was an unknown entity and I just graded the way I thought books were supposed to be graded. As I joined this place and also continued to submit books to CGC, I began to tighten up (or for a better way of saying it, started to adapt CGC standards) but I still kept my own raw grading for eBay. I'm quite sure there was a time when I graded raw books tighter here than on eBay for a while. Why? Because this place was full of 'educated collectors' (insert here). I was actually embarrassed about being called 'too loose' on this chat forum so I graded differently here than I did on eBay. Yup. I did. And it wasn't to deceive, rather it was to cater to different markets and give them what I thought they wanted. There is a bit of unspoken posturing around here, especially in the PGM forum, the way you'd have it in a 'country club' or some place where image is important. Very different than just hanging at the local dive bar where nobody cares. That is why (as others have already mentioned) I've also found the PGM forum to be on the tight side at times relative to my standards (and how I believe CGC grades) and I have personally and publicly disagreed with some posted grade opinions...even relatively recently. Anyhow, as time evolved I realized that everyone was looking for CGC grading both on eBay and here and as my understanding increased, so did my ability to grade the way CGC did. Fast forward a few years and I still regularly sell raw books on this forum. I don't think I've ever started a "PGM" thread on this forum (if I did, it must have been long ago and I don't remember it) but many of my raw books get slabbed (I see them coming back to market, even on the same forum a few months later). From what I can see most come back in a reasonable grade range - majority in the advertised grade, some a little under, some a little over. Let's face it, even CGC changes their own grades from time to time. I've resubmitted books, disagreeing with the grade only to see it change either up or down. There are different schools of thought on grading, even today, and I find that unless you are a CGC dealer, or an avid CGC fan/collector, most of the time people don't know how to CGC grade. But ultimately, there is an 'us and them' grading standard - or better put, a CGC and non-CGC grading standard. There really is no black and white, "this is the right grade", be all and end all grading perfection that is 100% right all of the time. Most of the time we are just in a close range. Some people are just closer in range than others. And so that begs the question, which grading standard is correct? The one in the CGC holder last week? This week? This dealer who is tighter than CGC or that dealer who isn't? I personally don't remember the last time I looked at a seller's grade and decided whether I was going to buy a book or not based on their assigned grade. I assign my own grades and my own price points on all of my purchases. I'll talk with my dollars and cents and take the plunge based on my own opinion and live or die by that decision. I'd only expect a refund if there was a hidden defect that would prevent me from accurately grading a book. Finally, as a person who spent over 2 decades in customer service (and am now in my 3rd), if a customer gets what they expected to receive, meaning they looked at the big pictures, read the description, asked questions, and then bid and won and got the book as described, then you have met those expectations and your job as a seller is done. If they are looking for a book with CGC grading, they should buy CGC graded books because that is the only way to guarantee CGC grading.

There are going to be 'troll groups' wherever there is a community. It's human nature to group up with like minds. Their intentions may not even be dishonorable and they might have the best intentions in mind but they continue to 'troll'. It can be perceptions, jealousy, personality conflicts or they simply refuse to 'agree to disagree' but those small conflicts that people call trolling can and do continue to grow larger unless people put active efforts into trying to prevent them. It's an unfortunate side effect of having large groups gathered.

Did anybody actually contact or email Chip or were all questions simply posted in this discussion thread?

It's just marketing. In the same way that Apple forces you to go with mostly Apple stuff, Marvel is forcing people to invest into all of their franchises. It's brilliant marketing. Yup. My kids don't get it but to anyone that was a collector in the 1990's and earlier, they 'get it'. Been waiting for this stuff since before the special effects could support the films.

They say they're not doing the MU thing but they are bringing out multiple movies and starting to unite characters. Superman / Batman, JLA are both movies where characters are uniting. I'm more inclined to think that they realize they missed the boat and are saving face. Having said that, it's just personal preference. I didn't think GL sucked. It just wasn't awesome like Nolan's Batman but I guess the same can be said for the Marvel movies, although over all they seem to be of better quality (and casting). I do feel though, that the cohesion between the Marvel movies really adds an air of maturity to the over all story telling that can't be duplicated with anything else.

But something happened in the mean time that was well discussed on here: CGC's restoration grading standards changed. That might be enough to explain everything.

Samuel Jackson - not young Robert Downey - not young Scarlett Johansson - young but not a very good actress but pretty to look at Chris Evans - young but ok actor Chris Hemsworth - better actor than Chris Evans Don Cheadle - old but very good actor Mark Ruffalo - good actor, not young Dave Bautista - not an actor Chris Pratt - is there a Chris theme going? funny guy and young! I wouldn't necessarily say Marvel is doing things better, just maybe DC is doing things differently. As for the catch up comment, last time I checked DC set the standard with Batman Begins and the Nolan trilogy. I really think that has had the domino effect of the movies we are enjoying today. Iron Man took the baton and ran with it. Why must there be a need to compare etc, let's just enjoy what we have in the glorious age of comic movies. Better is relative but while Nolan puts out amazing movies, Marvel is capitalizing on cross marketing like no other company in the history of movies. What other franchise can you name with so many spin-off successes? I can't think of one.

The edge of the envelope has always been there to push for people looking for a way to improve a book, whether ethically or unethically. It was done decades ago and nothing changes to this present day. The dollar amount certainly increases incentive, but for people who have been doing it all along nothing really changes. Except for the dollar amount.

I can barely make out what you're saying. Me neither, and I speak 6 languages. I'm fluent in 2, can get by in a 3rd and can scratch on cave walls in possibly several others.

The story of the year is the grade bumping of major keys....both in terms of actual grade and amount of restoration. The rise in price from 155K to 595K on the restored DT 27 is greed fueled. What can stop this....what has ever stopped making a profit. It is very important that this record breaking comic book not be a "grade bump" book.... Mitch, grades can change simply because CGC sees a book differently. Nothing necessarily needs to be done to a book. What is happening is these books are all vying for position (best, 2nd best, 3rd best, etc). Eventually they will settle into their respective positions. Interesting business model....change the standards every 5 years and regrade and regrade . Right now its grade bumping 1 grade and possible 1.2 grades higher. What happens when it it two grades higher....buying at the top is dangerous to say the least. But VC when know what is done to comics today to restore or unrepair to grade bump. Vying for a position does not mean what is occurring is a good and healthy thing. Mitch where have you been the last 10 years? Maybe if you participated in a few threads outside of Action #1's you would have noticed that people have been talking about this since day one. At no time has anybody made 2million on a grade bump/ press or whatever. So the book bumped 100 bucks ten years ago... But this trend is deeper, more profitable... And it is just beginning with ga mega keys....the new saying ..."crack and press"...and make 2+ million profit on a single book....it is coming big time. I think we saw a near unique opportunity with the action 1. It was a beautiful book initially graded with a couple of removable flaws. Flaws that these days most remove before submitting for grading, thus eliminating the potential for upgrades. Will folks continue to try to manipulate books into higher slabs, of course. It's human nature. Folks have been trying to improve books for profit as long as even you have been collecting Mitch (restoration was once widely positively accepted as increasing a books value) However I'm pretty reluctant to think we will ever hear of a 2mil bump on a comic again, it is just not statistically probable. Mitch was part of the 'problem', by paying record prices for comics and driving the market up into a stratosphere where even removing a wave from a book would make it worth while. The comic market is no different than any other market. There is the good and the bad, and people looking to make a dollar through whatever legal (and illegal) means they can. We're just more emotional about it because it's tied to our childhood.

I can barely make out what you're saying.

The story of the year is the grade bumping of major keys....both in terms of actual grade and amount of restoration. The rise in price from 155K to 595K on the restored DT 27 is greed fueled. What can stop this....what has ever stopped making a profit. It is very important that this record breaking comic book not be a "grade bump" book.... Mitch, grades can change simply because CGC sees a book differently. Nothing necessarily needs to be done to a book. What is happening is these books are all vying for position (best, 2nd best, 3rd best, etc). Eventually they will settle into their respective positions.

The story of the year is the grade bumping of major keys....both in terms of actual grade and amount of restoration. The rise in price from 155K to 595K on the restored DT 27 is greed fueled. What can stop this....what has ever stopped making a profit. It is very important that this record breaking comic book not be a "grade bump" book.... At this stage only asking price has changed. The Market price is as yet undetermined. That doesn't matter to Mitch.