GeeksAreMyPeeps

Did we just lose something like 18 pages of the thread?

Yes, sell them to me! Do you really need more books? Hell, even if someone took away all of your books you'd still have the best Valiant collection.

It's more the rarity. About half of these were distributed to those who cut the coupons from the first 8 issues of Magnus, and the other half were given to retailers as thank yous. So they were never solicited like normal issues.

Watch eBay get hoovered clean after the midnight movie showings. There are also screenings and previews before the official release date, so it's always possible that the news will be out before then.

How is it "disingenuous"...? Is there some sort of intent to deceive involved in using the term "flashback"? There isn't any on my part. Are you sure that's the word you mean to use? Perhaps "disingenuous" was a poor word choice, but my point stands. I think you're taking huge liberties with the definition of "flashback." By this definition, for any character that has multiple titles being published in story arcs (especially when there are cliffhangers where a subsequent issue picks up immediately after the events of the previous one), then all but one of those titles are flashback titles, since the events in all but one of those issues necessarily take place before the events of the other. I don't think anyone sees things that way. Storm's exposition takes care of explaining how they get there. The actual story doesn't do anything to add to the story in the annual, which is the purpose of a flashback. The use of the word "significant" should be discouraged as much as possible, because it is qualitative, and not quantitative, and thus subject to the personal interpretations of whomever is discussing it. What is "significant" to one is not "significant" to others. I don't think many people would agree with your definition of a "significant appearance", in any event. Why does the character have to be central to the story? There are several instances where characters have made full appearances, which weren't necessary to the story. Case in point: Wolverine's second full appearance is GSXM #1. The entire story could be told without him. He makes very little difference in the outcome of the story. There are a couple of panels throughout where he is the focus, but for the most part, he is a background, ancillary character. In fact...Wolverine doesn't make a significant (there's that word again) impact on ANY story until X-Men #109, where he is the central focus of Weapon Alpha. Up until then? Could have completely done without him, and whatever he did do could have been done by any of the other characters with no problem. I think you're quibbling with definitions here again. One of the purposes of the story in GSXM #1 was to introduce a new team of characters, of which Wolverine was a member. Generally I'd say things like that, or bits that reveal character, make an appearance more significant. There's not a hard cutoff in determining that. It's a spectrum. Considering where the annual falls on that spectrum and its proximity in publication to UXM 266, I can see why collectors value the latter book more, regardless of the publication date.

Considering what's been presented in this thread, I don't think there's any question whether the annual was actually published first or whether it was on the publishing schedule to be published first. But I think it's a little disingenuous to call UXM 266 & 267 "flashbacks" even if the events in them take place before the events in a previously published book. A flashback is a narrative device to convey to the reader information from prior events that are pertinent to understanding the events currently at hand. That's not the case with those issue. (If the events of those issues had appeared in place of Storm's summary of the events, then I could understand calling them a flashback.) What seems the most likely explanation? As I remember it, Marvel during a few years during that time period (including the summer in question) was publishing annuals throughout the summer, with 4 or so annuals crossing over in a single month to tell an extended story. My guess is that a particular month was determined to be when the mutant annuals would be published, and that month was before UXM 266 & 267 were on the publishing schedule. It's quite possible that the decision of when the books would be published wasn't even made by creative but rather by teh marketing department. (I work in a creative field and I can certainly tell you that in big companies, decisions that *should* be made by creative, if one wants to maintain a certain level or creative integrity, are instead driven by marketing.) I also have to say that I think there's an area between "cameo" and "significant" appearances where the annual falls. A significant appearance in my opinion is one in which the story can't be told without the character in question (or is a significantly different story). That's not the case with Gambit here. There's nothing requiring his appearance here. One might argue that his inclusion is necessary if Storm was to be involved, but if he and Storm had parted ways at the end of the Nanny storyline this story could have been told without him with minimal changes. At the same time, it's not exactly what one normally calls a "cameo" as he is depicted throughout the book. In short, is it his first appearance? Yes. But is it important enough to be considered the key? That's up to the individual collector, but I'd have to say no, considering the details of the appearances and the proximity of the release dates. For the record, I've got a few extra copies of the annual but only one of 266, so it would be to my advantage if the contrary were true.

Remind me what the deal with Harbinger #15 is again. I remember picking up a stack of this issue when it came out for some reason, but I don't remember why. Is this the first Livewire and Stronghold? So it is. Just double checked. While I do think that the first VEI appearance should be considered more important in this case, there will be people looking for this book that don't read the books. Time to get some of my OO copies graded, I think: I'm sure I picked up more as I tried to complete my collection.

Remind me what the deal with Harbinger #15 is again. I remember picking up a stack of this issue when it came out for some reason, but I don't remember why. Is this the first Livewire and Stronghold?

These scans initially came from me, and I have a bunch more issues scanned (pages about Valiant, the Top 100 and Top 10 back issues lists), and a bunch more to do. I have issues through 109, missing only 2-9, 25, 28, 29, 32, 46, 52, 54, 91, 98, 105 & 106. I'm putting them on eBay soon, so I'll scan those pages before selling them. So, are you someone from the Valiantfans board...? Yep. My understanding is that you're a former member? I joined back in 2008 but only became active on the boards in late 2012.

I missed the earlier discussion, and while I personally prefer continuous numbering, it might make sense in this case to start over with a new #1, but I'd make it #1 of a new ongoing series. The print numbers are so low of the first 6 issues that I can see potential readers picking up the trade but then buying monthly if they can jump on with a #1 issue, whereas if they continue with the existing numbering people may trade-wait if they're the types not to collect a run unless they can get the whole run

I see what you did there.

So? Did Superman die? Archie? Wolverine? Thats just another gimmick, I get it Flamingo?

Donatello's been dead since 1466.

These scans initially came from me, and I have a bunch more issues scanned (pages about Valiant, the Top 100 and Top 10 back issues lists), and a bunch more to do. I have issues through 109, missing only 2-9, 25, 28, 29, 32, 46, 52, 54, 91, 98, 105 & 106. I'm putting them on eBay soon, so I'll scan those pages before selling them.

This is where things get fun. Speculation in full force:

These scans look familiar… Did they ever get posted on the Valiant Fans board? Also, I should have more to send soon

If that does happen, and I believe it's very possible, don't you think these book settle in at a value higher than they were pre-hype? Its possible if they bring in a new fan base to support the books longer. Its currently not a dead universe so they are gather some new fans with the new books too. Early high grade keys have always held a decent value as some boardies on here will tell you as well. Don't forget that this book is a FRACTION in print-run size compared to other Marvel/DC keys. The important question, in regards to this, os whether a similar volume of people will be looking for Valiant books over time. I'd like to think yes, because I think the quality of the books stands up to Marvel and DC, and surpasses them when considering the lines on average, but time will tell

I can't speak to the intent of the other post, but, while a key book, the print run on Rai #0 was large (well over 100K) for a non-big 2 book, as the heavy Valiant speculation was underway when the book was published. There are plenty of copies out there, although many may not be readily available. That is because someone pointed out a Glossy/Not as Glossy variation in the print run. Everyone is scrambling to see if they get an early glossy to try and cut down on the print run number being so big. The only issues I see, is that many of these books will be banged up from the Valiant crash dollar box syndrome that plagued many of these Valiant books. Original numbers were high, how many are left intact? I have 0 slabs, and I am scared to admit my first may be a Harbinger #1 or a Solar #3. Rai #0 was hot from the moment of release. Granted the Valiant books didn't stay that way, but I would think that it would have been better-than-average care from the average collector.

I can't speak to the intent of the other post, but, while a key book, the print run on Rai #0 was large (well over 100K) for a non-big 2 book, as the heavy Valiant speculation was underway when the book was published. There are plenty of copies out there, although many may not be readily available.

If books that appear earlier in continuity but released shortly after the first published appearance of an event warrant a label notation, Batman & the Outsiders #1 should probably be noted as the formation of the team (at the very least) and the first appearance in continuity of Katana, Geo-force, and Halo, as the preview story in Brave & Bold #200 from the previous month falls between issues 3 & 4 in continuity.

Magnus 1–8 and Harbinger 1–6 have cards/coupons which had to be removed and sent in for the 0 issues. There were trading cards bound into books for a month a few years later but you're not going to want to bother slabbing any of those books.

Doesn't it actually make more sense to collect the current Valiant stuff. The current publisher will want to make tv shows/movies/video games based on the stuff they are publishing, rather than the original books. Why bother with those 90s books other than the characters' first appearances? First appearances are pretty much the driving factor of the back issue market. That's why

The print runs on the 2012 Valiant run are lower for a lot of titles than they were for some of the "low print" pre-unity books. In February the top selling non-#1 issue was The Valiant #3 at 9800 copies. The best of the longer running titles, X-O #33, was only just above 7000. Some of these books will be harder to find if the movies are produced and hit than the pre-unity books......... That goes for almost all VEI books. I think X-O #1 (2012) was in mid 40s, and Unity #1 was in the 70s or 80s. Everything else is below pre-Unity numbers.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120722013521/http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/guide.asp

You can generally get *very* good deals on TPBs at conventions where Valiant is appearing as well. They want to get their books into the hands of fans