drotto

But, he was asking for label changes, this should trigger a full re-evaluation also.

The one thing the CGC could publically do next week, that may restore some confidence is announce changes in the reholdering process. Just make an announcement something like, Do to recent events CGC must temporarily suspend the current reholdering service. It will still be possible to get books reholdered, but we have determined due to security issues, all books in cases showing any damage must be fully re-evaluated and potentially regraded. We must also open all inner wells to i sure that the lable and the i formation on the lable are accurate. We will offer this service at a discount from initial grading, but it is necessary to insure the authenticity of books that have been entrusted to us.

In the second video, where he opens the competion's clip design, he appeared to have much more trouble, and it seemed to require more skill. Now, I 100% think that with practice you could get these open almost perfectly also, but it looked harder. So no case is ever going to be perfect. The best we can hope for is a desig that will break with any attempt to open. Then if the case is broken the rule must be the comic is now considered raw, period.

All true. I really hope it stays this way, but the books found so far are all high volume, high census, BA and CA books, with desired variants, or frequent issues resulting in qualified labels. There is a fairly clear pattern. The biggest issue with the case at this moment is not that it fails to show damage (even the crack case video did damage the case), but if that CGC can not tell if that damage is "natural" or fruadulent. CGC has to admit they can't tell the difference.

There was certainly a high degree of incompetence and arrogance. I am firmly on record in saying they should have noticed this, but can see how CGC is being run they they would never have considered it a possibility.

Same issue for me, I collect mainly SA and BA Marvel, and dabble in GA. If I am going to by any keys in those areas, the majority are graded at this point. The books on my want list now are things like GA Batman, Hulk 1, ASM 1, AF 15, and SA X-Men (some of these are easier to find raw). While raws do come up on occasion, the vast majority of these types of books are slabbed.

I agree 100%. CGC should have been far more aware of their own weaknesses, and should have been trying to correct the QC issues that have been obvious for some time. At the same time I can see how they would have been blind to the sheer audacity that it took for somebody to be submitting fraudulent books to them, containing easy to spot items (unlike the micro-trimming scandal which would have been far easier to miss). Sometimes, the easiest mistake to miss is the one staring us in the face. The are the "experts" it should have been noticed, but sorta get how it would be missed, because just who would do that.

-Agree, the cases are designed to be tamper evident, as such the reholder process needs to be changed that all cases with any visible damage need to be treated as raw if normal damage can not be reliably differentiated from tampering. Therefor, all reholders need to be reverified and regraded. - I think CGC is not completely off the hook. When you read the fine print, the only thing they truly guarantee is the book is authentic, and two people have evaluated the book. So they have a responsibility to verify any book that passes through their hands is what the book appears to be. During the reholder submission, if there is any issues with the case, they therefore have a responsibility to again verify the book is authentic. That includes making sure the MVS is present, is it a real MJI, the book is complete, etc. In addition, if they are changing the label, they must verify the changes are authentic. By missing those items, you could argue the book is not authentic. So they failed their legal statement. This does not include the grade (unfortunately). -Yes, the majority of comics are still raw. However, with grails, and big money books it seems like the majority that change hands at this point seem to be graded. Its hard to avoid, if you trade in high end books.

1. Comic collectors (and not always in a bad way) are very anal. Many, especially with high grade books, would send the book back if they noticed any case damage, or demand at least a partial refund. He would get a reputation for selling damaged cases, and that would get around. CGC seems to miss these. Even if he would get noticed, what would CGC even do? Offer to regrade and reholder the book, or just send the book back? I doubt they would call him out for tampering, because they never saw this as a weakness in their process, the were not looking for it. I doubt this would ever go beyond him and CGC, while selling possible tampered or damaged cases would spread like wildfire in the collecting community. He would have been found out faster selling bad cases to collectors then trying to get broken cases fixed by CGC. Hell this whole thing was found out because many collectors are detail oriented, very decerning, and again very anal. 2. It gave him a way to get labels changed to note high value variants, or reclassify qualified books and have CGC legitimize the label. Then if a collector checks the certificate number, which high grade collectors do regularly, the book would be listed correctly on the census. He found a way to use CGC's processes and census to give credibility to his books. Without sending them in this does not happen. 3. It gives him a level of protection if a buyer questions the book they receive. He just points at the label and puts the blame on CGC. He just says, hey CGC called it a 9.8, I am not the one that graded it, look at the census, it is listed right there. If you do not want it send it back. If they do he just sells it again. Eventually, somebody will keep it.

In theory CGC knows the originally submitter for every book ever graded. Granted, that garentees nothing once that book has left that original persons hands, if it was sold through non tracked channels.

I know it has been touched on here and elsewhere, would there be support for two levels of slabs? People need to be honest, most of the floods of stabbed 9.8 modern or even recent spec books, are worth less then the stabbing and grading processes itself. If that is you thing, fine, but I think it has lead to millions of books encased that really did not need to be done. One the other hand grading, verifying, and protecting grails of high value definitely serves a purpose. So for those wanting to grade and slab spec books, minor keys, moderns etc, there is a cheaper less secure slab option. For those big books, and rare high value books, there is a more expensive, much more secure case, with multiple levels of security. That would be reserved for book of at least $1000 in value at time of submission (just a start point). This would be it own thing, with dedicated staff and graders. The best analog I can think of is guitars where you have say regular USA Gibsons off the regular production line, then you have the costum shop within that, with its own dedicated, much more experienced work force. Yes it costs more. Yes, it is only for certain people willing to pay. But, it isn't a higher level.

CGC has no recourse at this point other than reporting it to the proper authorities. Unfortunately, as a corporation, they are going to cover their backside, and want to fully understand what their liability and exposure is first, before getting everyone else involved. Not saying it is right, but it is what any company is going to do.

All it needed to show is it was possible with minimal damage, nothing more. He did that. We can reasonably expect a person with more practice, and ill iintentions would be much better at it. Plus, it only had to get past the proven lose inspections being done through the reholdering service. It did not need perfection.

We already have 4th party!! Does not some company put that extra sticker on slabs saying it is a good copy for the grade?

Total speculation territory!!!!!! If this leads to a new case and/or new anti-tampering measures and CGC offeres a "low cost" reverification to insure authenticity. Would you do it?

But his method is reasonable, and is likely enough to get past a cursory check done during a reholder submission, especially ifthey arw claiming damage to the case as the reason foe the submission. That is all that matters. Plus, this person has only done this to a few slabs. The scammer may have a completely different method, but has also has done this many times and refined their methods with practice.

You do realize everyone in this forum has multiple RFID cards in their pocket right now. Every credit card has one. Cell phones are also a wonderful tracking devices. RFID needs to be scanned in order to be trackable, it has not power source of its own, and only puts our a short range signal when hit with a reader at the correct frequency. So yes they can track you, but it needs to be scanned in oder to do so.

I have stated it before, and it is just my suggestions. Every inner well has the certification number and possible the book and issue etched or stamped on it. Possibly include an RFID chip on the label as well as inside the inner well to help identify the book. Increase the overall strength of the welding of the case insuring it will break if opening is attempted. Make all reholders subject to regrading. High grade publically availible images of all submitted books, and full records every time CGC handles the book, or makes changes to the label and case.

I re-read the statement and it says the individual will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, not the authorities have been contacted and are involved. To me that means they are still investigating with their people, and the authorities have not been brought in yet. CGC wants all their ducks in a row, and wants to understand their liability before law inforcement is brought in. I trust the individuals will be prosecuted, but stand by my initial statement.

The announcement is about what I expected, and I am glad that CGC has finally acknowledged the problem, has started to take action, and most importantly is going to compensate those affected. At least to me a few things seem clear now. 1. The delay was needed to conduct the initial investigation, get private investigators involved, and get council. 2. CGC has a strong suspicion who the individual or individuals are. 3.CGC is tacitly acknowledging they have some liability or exposure here. They are making people whole (which is the moral and correct move), and are already changing processes and continuing the internal review. This means they have found deficiencies in QC or the case itself have left them with some exposure. 4. More changes are coming, either in the services themselves, more anti-tampering measures, or possible more extensive changes in the submission process or case itself. 5. It is enough money and a serious enough matter that law enforcement is involved.

Plus, it more or less confirms how many people suspected it was being done, but now verifies it can be done.

I sense a large does of copium has been taken.

I would likely melt the inner well.

One of my favorite shows of 2023, and definitely the biggest positive surprise.

I agree CGC will come back. They will make some changes to policies, and may add some tampering protections. The current slab is also 6 or 7 years old, and is already Gen 3, so it could push a redesign. That will not be fast, so do not count on it.