joe_collector

ASM #162

Mark Jewelers insert.

 

 

oceanavekid Removed from The Probation List

 

Exactly why was Oceanavekid removed?

Because enough people commented that the nomination was a bit of a crock, and that the precedent of a antagonistic buyer playing games, and forcing you on the PL, was a bad one.

P.S. I hate to agree with the naysayers, but the fact that you arbitrarily re-added him, against the forum wishes, really makes the PL an official joke.

I was not promoting a raffle. I just said I threw in the books and reorganized each box.

What about "no incentives" don't you understand?

If it's really just a reorganization, then there is no reason to mention the "higher value slabs", is there?

True Mystery Boxes are a MYSTERY, and therefore nothing but the equivalent valuation for all the boxes in the listing needs to be mentioned.

If one box is worth more than another, and you actively promote certain "high demand slabs" are in a few boxes, but not all, then that's a "chance listing" and not a Mystery Box.

If everyone that pays $100 gets at least say $200 worth of stuff, someone getting $500 worth of stuff does not make it a lottery.

If the $500 box isn't promoted, identified or otherwise noted, then I would agree. You can silently give away anything you want, if it's behind the scenes and not used as an incentive to buy.

But if you mention in the listing that one of the boxes will be a higher value than the others, then it's not allowed.

I spelled it right.

 

It comes from wedding vows:

 

"... let them speak now or forever hold their peace."

I preferred piece.

Hence the shot of the fat guy and his "piece".

I spelled it right.

It comes from wedding vows:

"... let them speak now or forever hold their peace."

In general I am not a big fan of mystery or chase sales. I think it does more harm than good.

Yep, for every one CG, there are ten scammers out there with "a Hulk 181, ASM 129 and IM 55 to be randomly inserted in the mystery boxes" rip-off raffles.

Is there any objection to me adding him to the List??

You should add:

 

Speak now, or forever hold your piece.

You are a trustworthy member of the community and you do this the right way.

 

The problem is the potential for people to do it the wrong way, which could be bad for the community. Hence, the current debate/discussion.

Exactly, these rules were never enacted to punish or impugn long-time, trustworthy members like comicalgems, but to protect users from scam artists and frauds, of which there are plenty out there.

Here's the deal guys, in order to stop Harv from having a coronary with his bizarre conjectures:

1) From the PM with Arch, it appears that secondary Mods are not properly understanding or implementing the "No Raffles" rules.

2) Arch therefore felt the need to further clarify the rules regarding "games of chance/ raffles"

3) The reason comicalgems thread was not poofed is because IT WAS OVER DAYS AGO. The boxes sold out, the draw was made, and everything shipped out the 10th, 3 days *before* Arch got personally involved. Clear? Now, if you have a time machine, please PM Arch.

I disagree. The incentive is what gets the buyers. And doesn't the lack of transparency about the other contents violate another rule?

Exactly, and this is clearly a draw:

If all ten sell I'll have a drawing where 10th name drawn receives X-Factor 6 CGC 9.8.

Branget, who else besides Jawn can remove him?

Thank you for a straightforward answer. At this point, there is so much controversy I agree that the only fair thing to do at this point is to remove him from the PL.

If so, then Ocean better realize he is on a very short leash.

This is like a mass-murderer being let off because he just happened not to kill one specific guy he was accused of. Doesn't make him innocent, just of that charge.

I thought that was something JC just made up or assumed. Was it part of an actual pm or statement?

I never said a word about that.

My theory:

He mistakenly forgot to get tracking or lost the tracking stub, and is now crossing his fingers that it get delivered so he doesn't have to go to the USPS to look it up.

Exactly! And not just on these boards but in general. A lot of people are bull headed and won't admit they are wrong

To be honest, massive spoon that he is, I don't see ocean being in the wrong in this specific instance. Lots of other occasions, sure, but not here.

If someone "pulled a jawn" on me, I would take that kind of crapola.

I don't want to speak for him, but quite honestly, if I truly felt I was right on a subject and had people adding me to a "bad guys" list for something I feel wasn't deserved I'd probably be telling people to kick rocks too.

Same here, and I cannot believe people are not only giving jawn a free ride, but supporting his bid to put someone on the PL. I can't even imagine doing something like vindictively putting a BIN after those PMs and then following it up with a PL nom?

IMO, they're both major spoons and if ocean is on the PL, then jawn should join him ASAP.

some members on the boards are in favor of teaching the seller a lesson about procedures (which he absolutely needs to learn), with the result being a PL listing.

That's pretty well it, but I just don't agree with the tactics.

IT'S LUNCHTIME!!

This discussion is no longer about what's right but about who's right.

 

There never has been a discussion.

 

Ocean got railroaded into the PL and no number of complaints will change that. So watch it, you could be next.

 

You said it therefore it's true.

 

When someone (you) not evenly remotely involved in the perceived transaction, initiated the PL disbarment process, it certainly makes you think about motive.

 

Go back and read.

I did and you were the first to initiate the process, it's all there in black and white.

Joke around all you want, but I thought it was the buyer/seller who needed to initiate the process, not 3rd parties with a potential agenda.

And it's also quite amusing that the 3rd party (Branget) is also the most vocal in confronting accusations that Ocean may have been railroaded.

This discussion is no longer about what's right but about who's right.

 

There never has been a discussion.

 

Ocean got railroaded into the PL and no number of complaints will change that. So watch it, you could be next.

 

You said it therefore it's true.

When someone (you) not evenly remotely involved in the perceived transaction, initiated the PL disbarment process, it certainly makes you think about motive.

This is probably the most even-handed of all replies, and I urge people to read it:

A couple of observations:

 

1. I'm a one-note Charlie on this, but the key problem is that there is no way short of a PL nomination to flag misbehavior by a buyer or seller. So someone who feels ill-used has no way to vent short of a PL nomination, which in some cases -- and I think this case is one -- is too stiff a penalty.

 

2. I would say when any nomination gets to the point of parsing the meaning of statements and the exact timelines involved, that nomination should be thrown out. We can't expect perfect behavior from either buyers or sellers. Imo, the PL should be reserved for clear cut cases of misbehavior.

This discussion is no longer about what's right but about who's right.

There never has been a discussion.

Ocean got railroaded into the PL and no number of complaints will change that. So watch it, you could be next.