joe_collector

I love that sequence in 98...kinda want to do another reread starting from GSXM now...

The early X-Men are great not only for the stories, but also because Claremont, and later Byrne, slowly parceled out tiny but integral pieces of the Wolverine origin, while developing the character into the icon that took comics by storm.

And to say that "all Wolverine did from GS X-Men 1 to X-Men 108 was to sit around doing nothing in a few panels per issue" is insane. Some of the best pages of the book involved Wolverine, and again, it being a team book required that all characters get their time in the sun.

The Juggernaut fight in X-Men 102-103 is a great action piece, and although outmatched, Wolvie is in there fighting.

PS. Your examples aren't of any significant impact.

Obviously, as you clearly weren't reading this series at the time.

When it came out, it was big news, and Banshee echoed the readers with his "Yer claws... laddie... lord above.. they're part of you... we.. I... didn't know!" comment.

It is really the first depiction of said character?

No.

Previews are not comics and that's about all that needs to be said.

Case in point: Wolverine's second full appearance is GSXM #1. The entire story could be told without him. He makes very little difference in the outcome of the story. There are a couple of panels throughout where he is the focus, but for the most part, he is a background, ancillary character. In fact...Wolverine doesn't make a significant (there's that word again) impact on ANY story until X-Men #109, where he is the central focus of Weapon Alpha.

Seriously? Have you even read the X-Men comics?

One of *the* most important revelations in the Wolverine mythos came about in X-Men 98, whereby his claws are shown to be part of his body (prior to that, it was the old "claws in the glove" character design) and it's hinted that he may not be a mutant after all (the mutated wolverine angle was later dropped), as well as some healthy sexual-undertone banter with Jean. This also might be the first time Wolvie slices and dices non-super human beings with his claws.

Wolverine having claws attached to his skeleton is SOP today, but back then it was huge news and kinda freaked me out at the time (how could his claws not rip off his arms? - answered later in X-Men 126) and I can remember showing the page to some friends and they were equally surprised.

Show me a single page in X-Men Annual 14 that gives Gambit this level of exposition and character development.

There are many others, keeping in mind this is a T-E-A-M book that needs to share the pages with other members - Wolverine is also central in the big dust-up with Juggernaut in X-Men 103-104 and against the Imperial Guard (where he gets a new costume) in X-Men 107-108.

It struck me as a "Dear Abby" sort of thread, so in that vein, I posted up a playful joke....the intended IRONY of which was apparently* lost on the boardies who read it and reported the post to a moderator.

Yeah.. okay.

Back to heating up . . .

 

FOF 28 - 1st App Slipknot

At least it's a book I don't have, and of a character that is such a blatant rip-off of Constrictor.

Shazam 1 and Shazam 28 both books has 1st bronze appearance in DC but Shazam 28 is worth more. I know 28 is more rare but hero 1st appearance usually worth more than villan. And he's getting his own movie. I guess black Adam really popular.

No, I think people understand Captain Marvel has a long history of being in GA comics, but aren't that familiar with Black Adam.

Apart from their limited run I have to assume it's also because most of them were sold overseas, reducing their survival rate.

I am pretty sure they were also sold at the local PX/BX stores on US bases.

Also, the to the left of "Super Powers" is a pretty big crease.

I'm pretty sure that's a greggy nutsac crease, i.e. production.

I think over the course of my collecting lifetime, I've only had two of these.

I think it depends on what era you concentrate on - I have been into picture frame books for a while and amassed a pile of them as a result.

I really need to go through my comic boxes and divest myself of some sweet Copper.

Maybe nobody is selling any real keys, with the NDS insert?

I have a pile of these books I bought in big lots on eBay - I was buying picture frame books from a seller over and over, and finally he offered me the rest at a similar price. When I got them, they were military books in pretty good shape, stored well with nice color/gloss (majority probably VF, some lower, some higher) and they had NDS in them. I posted on here about a run of Marvel Tales I bought from the same guy back in the day, as those were the first to arrive.

No keys, obviously, as I don't think there are many in the PF range, but they are definitely out there. He was probably selling keys too, but at that time, I was *so* zoned into PF books that I didn't worry about anything else.

If you really want to talk rare, early and tough in high grade, try finding a bronze key with an NDS insert.

 

We're talking books like HFH 1, ToD 1, MP 1, etc, right?

 

Those books are too late (actually the HFH 1 could conceivably have one). The NDS inserts only ran from about April 1971 and stopped completely in early 1973. So you'd be looking for an ASM 100 or an IM 55 for example.

I think you may be mixed up:

Marvel Premiere 1 - April, 1972

Tomb of Dracula 1 - April, 1972

Hero for Hire 1 - June, 1972

Others would include Marvel Spotlight 2 (February, 1972), Marvel Spotlight 5 (August, 1972), Marvel Feature 1 (December, 1971), Defenders 1 (August, 1972), ASM 101 (October, 1971), FF 112 (July, 1971), Amazing Adventures 11 (March, 1972), and others.

If you really want to talk rare, early and tough in high grade, try finding a bronze key with an NDS insert.

We're talking books like HFH 1, ToD 1, MP 1, etc, right?

November 18, 1992 at noon. That's when Superman 75 was on sale, the end of the Copper Age and the beginning of the Modern Age and rampant speculation.

Where were you when the multi-cover Spider-man #1, X-Men #1 and X-Force #1 (which include 2 of the top-selling comics of all time) specu-books were released? And before Unity, you can't be mis-remembering that there was no speculation or hype on Valiant? And Spawn 1 + the birth of Image were not important, or are those forgotten too?

When those three madhouse Marvel #1's were released, the comics market and hobby changed totally. It was like night and day, and the specu-sales confirm it. Sure, they're not as sexy to the ADHD crowd as The Death of Supes, but they started it all, along with Valiant and Image.

When Spider-man 1 came out, I literally walked into a guy coming out of the LCS with a few cases of the book in a trolley - I had never seen that before. And there was almost a fist-fight between nerds arguing over which cover would be worth more. And it just got worse with X-Men 1 and X-Force 1, not to mention that people were mass-speculating on Valiant and there was a run-up on back issue prices prior to Unity - look it up. You seem to infer that Valiant was dead sales-wise pre-Unity, languishing in the bargain bins, and suddenly post-Unity, they exploded -simply not true.

All this other stuff is just hindsight, poor memory and trying to artificially shoehorn the end of the CA around a well-known culmination event like the Death of Superman. It's similar to the bizarre assertion that ASM 121 started the BA, or Secret Wars started the CA, rather than these being the culmination of an era.

I still consider this one a CA book:

 

You would.

 

To me, Valiant, Image, Marvel #1's Trio, etc. exemplified the Modern/Speculator/Chromium era, and to leave them in Copper is patently insane. Pick up a book from the early-80's and one from 1992 and they are from two different worlds.

 

I don't disagree But, until they "officially" make a new era, it's def not a "Modern"

I'm just saying that Valiant is definitely not Copper... which leaves...

This is pretty nice for a VG/F copy.

Wow, I wonder how much my "greggy copies" (CGC and raw) are worth?

I've really got to do some collection cleaning/dupe culling this Summer, as some of these prices are insane. I can remember giving my kids piles of She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Nova, etc. issues (that drifted in with eBay lots) to read/rip-up and they'd probably put them through University now.

Still got quite a few still though. Probably more than a few.

Isn't 50 the first team up? I thought they fought each other in 48?

They did both - fought at the start, then agreed to team up at the end.

It's the best cover as far as the worst representation of fog, ever.

I thought it was fog down by the feet, but water in the top background.

I still consider this one a CA book:

You would.

To me, Valiant, Image, Marvel #1's Trio, etc. exemplified the Modern/Speculator/Chromium era, and to leave them in Copper is patently insane. Pick up a book from the early-80's and one from 1992 and they are from two different worlds.

One of those Luke Cage books should break out but I'm not sure if it will be 48, 50 or 54

It'll be 48 for sure - first Iron Fist team-up, Byrne art, low-selling point of the series (I missed that one growing up, and only caught the Byrne art by 49), Daughters of the Dragon appearance, IF vs. PM fight cover, etc.

50 is a possibility, as it's the first official title and it's got Byrne art, but I doubt it.

And as for 54, huh? The first time they pluralized Hero for Hire? That's sucker bait for the feebs and dweebs to waste money on. Buy PM 48 if you really think the team-up is going to heat up in back issues. But 54?

No one is shoehorning a "first appearance" onto a label, the people arguing for cameos as legitimate "firsts" are trying to rewrite history for whatever reason.

Exactly, and what's weird about this whole deal, is that these anti-establishment people should be ecstatic that what they think is a first appearance is so vastly undervalued compared to what the hobby believes is a first full appearance. They're saving money hand over foot buying their most attractive issues compared to what a cameo would cost if someone owned a time machine and brainwashed Bob Overstreet.

I see many of you don't actually read comics:

I had a Spider-Man 300 shipped to me in a box of raisin bran, I got a refund.

I had a lot of McFarlane ASM's I got for a song (including multiple ASM 300's) on eBay, mailed covered only in thin, brown packing paper and a bit of tape. The books looked to be in super shape when she mailed them, but weren't so good when I got them in.

Thank God they were supah cheap or I would have been very angry.

100% agree. Ist Appearances became valuable because fans wanted to read a popular characters first story, which usually also contained their origin, their first costume, their first battle.

Especially if it's a brawl with the Incredible Hulk.

People tend to forget *why* first appearances are valuable historically in the hobby and instead search for some character peeking up from behind a couch or something.