Get Marwood & I

Assuming it all stacks up, and the 8 stamp was the first, this is what your local newsagent might have received, in part or in full, sometime in early 1960....

So, here it is. Some sections I've had to compress somewhat to be able to fit them on a page but if you save them to your PC you can enlarge them. Initial commentary under each page: The review purposes have been served I feel - we have a summary of the earliest known stamped DC issues by cover date for each of the titles in existence during the first four stamping cycles (I'll update this as new / earlier examples appear) and we have proven the sequential nature of the stamping cycles, broadly in line with cover dates. We are also able to determine the make up of the first ever arrivals from the first cycle page - our 8s and 9s, assuming we all agree that the 6s are late second cycle books: Whilst the majority of the books in the 8 slot have December 59 cover dates there is a mix of around 3 months and this is consistent throughout the early subsequent stamp numbers. So we can see from this exercise that the mix of each delivery comprised a spread of books cover dated within two to three months of each other (excluding outliers). We can also see from the 8 and 9 slots on the first cycle that it was not uncommon for multiple issues to arrive in the same delivery, e.g. Strange Adventures #110,111 & 112 in the 9 stamp slot and My Greatest Adventure #38 & 39 in the 8 slot. This all rings true if you think about the mechanics and scale of the operation. There are no real outliers in these first two slots - everything looks broadly consistent and the fact that there are more books in the 9 than 8 slot also feels consistent with the process bedding in. It will be interesting to see how the addition of Charlton, Archie and ACG changes the mix. A post for another day! Next slide (I feel like the bloke on the Coronavirus briefing - and you can't read their charts either): The second cycle starts off in a similar vein, but what strikes me as how the numbers seem to drop in the middle phases. Note here too that for the first time, the cover date 'majority' months fall out of calendar sequence with two March majorities in stamp 2 and 3, and two Mays in 5 and 6. In respect of 5 and 6, it looks like the titles cover dated May 1960 are spread over two deliveries rather than than having the same title in each stamp slot. The 6 slot, you'll see, has the least books but - don't forget - we are proposing to add the 6 books from the first cycle to them which would then bolster the delivery numbers. In a small way, that kind of validates the notion that those books are indeed late second cycle books. No real surprises other than that - just the first examples of obviously late books, e.g. the few March books in the otherwise August focussed 8 stamp slot. Next slide! Here you can see that the virus is particularly virulent, oh, sorry, wrong subject. A fairly consistent pattern in the third cycle. Note how the numbers drop off in the 9 slot though with the books effectively being an extension of the 8 slots May cover dated titles. This and the other examples indicate a sort of hiccup in the flow if you like. I know this is a limited exercise, but it does seem that the 3rd cycle 9 stamp delivery was a scant one. The fourth slide picks up where the third left off with a low number of books in the 1 slot: And then some nice consistency sets in with most slots having a cover date mix of only two months not the three of the earlier cycles. Things were settling in by this point it seems. So that's just a high level review but it's been a handy little exercise and one which can only grow our understanding of what likely arrived and when. I may take a break for a bit from this as it's quite punishing on the eyes and I haven't long been over a bout of double vision. But at some point I will try to position the many 1958-1960 stamped books that I have for Charlton, Archie and ACG - in more detail than the earlier attempts in this thread - to see if everything fits. All good fun. Thanks for the help so far guys

Thanking you - I'll add them in and then I'm ready to post the final doc...

Be honest Albert. You used to be a newsagent didn't you.

Spooky, they just did. It's been that kind of week.

I've been watching this lot myself Petronella, and made an offer. I have all the issues already, so it's just that Cheyenne that is of interest. My guess is it's a 9d sticker applied over the printed 6d price - here's my UK copy: I've see that a lot, 9d stickers over 6d prices. We'll soon see if the seller accepts.

I resemble that remark I thought about it some more last night Albert, and I'm moving into the camp that the numbers may well have been there to guide the newsagents through a returns process as you believe. I think the 'X' stamp that Mr T posted, which I'd never seen before, supports the idea that the top / numbered half of the stamp could act as a returns process indicator ('don't', in that case) and that made it more likely that the T&P numbers could play a similar role. I've had a lot of experience of operational processes in my various jobs down the years and it wouldn't be the first time that a process was in place with so many obvious flaws as the T&P one, if indeed that is what it was. I do on reflection think it more likely now that a newsagent would look to stamps rather than study cover dates or issue numbers. They'd just take them all off wouldn't they, with little attention to the titles themselves and whether what they were doing made sense from a readers chronological perspective. So you've convinced me, I think, Albert. It's quite nice to have these debates, and I enjoy the challenges and alternative viewpoints. It's easy to get tunnel vision sometimes once an notion sits in your mind and no one comments. I would love to know exactly how the process unfolded and how the 9 different stamp numbers triggered returns throughout the year. If the comics were delivered monthly, perhaps the chap that delivered them collected the returns at the same time. That would make it a monthly returns process so the nine numbers would not be tied to months and would have to roll over with two cycles crossing one year. I've mentioned before how I love the early 1960's period of comics and all the little nuances and quirks. Maybe this stamping process was just another one of them - a broad pattern, rife with comic chronological error, with faint / unreadable stamps making the process that much less robust (for the avid collector). Bet it was fun though. Thanks again Albert, for the conversion.

I'm warming to the idea Albert. Maybe I'm concentrating too much on cover date sequencing and the logical desire to protect that for the buyers. Yes, unlikely. But as I noted above, the illogicality of sending all 3 back was probably a feature of what was likely a fairly loose, haphazard design. Hence you guys lamenting the absence of issues etc back in the day. Maybe you're right again Albert. Another pint at Rovers might be brewing....

Actually, I've gone boss-eyed. Time to retire to the society lounge I think. See you all tomorrow chaps, for chapter 895 of 'Adventures in Penceville' P.S. @Albert Tatlock, I spotted it, even with me dodgy mince pies: Only one day out in the US of A. Or 3 months in Blighty!

Guys, with all these interruptions I'm never gonna finish these f tables! I kid, I kid.... Love it really

Colour-blind newsagents of the world, unite and take over!

Good points - how would a newsagent have dealt with these three cover date consecutive issues I wonder, had he received them all as 9s? When I post up the tables tomorrow (hopefully) I'll try to highlight where the issues are out of sequence, bunched etc to illustrate how erratic that process would have been. I'm not saying you and Albert are wrong at all - I just find it so 'onerous' for want of a better word. How would you document a returns schedule which had 9 numbers, 12 months, and (it appears) 12 annual deliveries? You'd make a stamp withy 12 numbers, surely? All good fun

Sorry if that 'pshaw' impression came from me Albert - I'm always open to considering new ways of looking at things, especially from those like yourself who actually collected during the period in question. That would never be my intention as hopefully anyone who follows my threads will recognise. But I still remain unconvinced on the shelf life theory as it makes no operational sense to me. I've forgotten what I already posted on this, but for me the cover date and issue numbers are the more salient, obvious indictors of shelf life. Being limited to 9 numbers, and not therefore aligned to calendar months, I feel the system you propose would be unnecessarily complicated for newsagents to keep up with, especially given the many, many examples of books being out of stamp sequence (as my snapshot tables will show). I can't imagine a newsagent picking up a freshly received 1 and saying "Ah, this latest delivery is stamped a 1, I better take off the 8s and 9s" and start taking those books off the shelf. Surely, he'd just take the books off the shelf that had the same title as the new delivery. Or, if he wanted the last two issues or more to stay up for sale, he'd just look at the issue numbers - wouldn't he? I'm 100% on board with the stamp numbering matching the shipping deliveries and the data sequencing supports that concept completely. I also believe the stamp numbers had some internal relevance to T&P. They chose 1-9 stamps for a reason and we may never know what that reason was. But I still don't buy the idea that the stamp numbers were an indicator to the newsagents. As Garystar said, rightly, you can't read half the damn things anyway. If there is an angle I'm missing, I'm open to it Albert. If you can find a smoking gun - say, an old sheet of T&P headed paper, that was delivered to newsagents in the day with a 'take off and send back 2 when you receive 3' etc etc set of instructions, I'll think again

Found another '10' by the way:

The X almost certainly means unreturnable; the IW/Super books didn't use normal distribution channels and were not, as far as I know, returnable in the US. Makes sense, X indicating non-returnable. Only 3 examples though.... If T&P were the culprits I'd have expected to see more of them maybe? And given Millers stamp proliferation....

Snap!

Cor! I've never seen one of those before Mr T. Very cool I haven't posted much about IW as they are impossible to date / plot. I don't have any T&P examples saved in the files, but I do have a multitude of L Miller stamped copies who, I thought until now, were the only ones who distributed them in the UK. Here are the Miller stamp examples: As for them being T&P stamps, well, lets see: I don't see it. 'X' could be the numerical equivalent of ten I suppose, or it could signify a brand of some sort - shop or local distributor. Completely different font but the familiar T&P split circle with shaded upper half. Hmmm. How many examples have you got Mr T? And any other info about them (e.g. all purchased 'oop North', stuff like that)? Cool.

Hey Carlito, remember me?

Cheers Albert I've nearly finished repopulating the tables - should be able to complete it tomorrow and post all four cycle pages. I've added in the remaining titles within the first four stamp cycles so we're up to 55 now. The six titles for which I don't have a single stamped example are in pale orange: I'm surprised by how many of the titles I've managed to find a full run of issue images really - there are 1,124 images saved in here: At some point I'll put a list together of the issues for which no stamped copy is held - it would be great if we could gather complete sets for all the stamped titles. Here's all 27 Flashes: A job for another day, along with the long overdue, much promised, top end thread summary!

One last quick one before I log off - I've added these two in, thanks - have you got a B&TB #27 or #32 Albert? The only two missing mate:

Here's two stamped JLA#1's though: Night gents

Indeed - another benefit of this exercise - an indication of how scarce some titles / issues are (accepting that we're now looking at surviving examples some 60 years later). I find that with some of my early Charlton UKPVs - some copies are plentiful and turn up frequently, others, you'll be lucky to find one copy in ten years.

Here's an example, Superboy: Three copies of 77, three of 78, three of 79 then only one 80 and no 81's. Six 92's, one 91. Erratic!