Get Marwood & I

And well done on hitting 500 posts by the way Harry. I like reading your ramblings and love that you clearly cherish your books. When others are bragging over multiple copies of high grade keys, it's great to see you love your mid-grade ASM 6. I like my graded 9.4 ASM 129. Because one day I'll make a buck on it. Yippee. But I love my lower grade, well read, hard to find old pence westerns so much more. Comics are about love and romance, not pressing to get a point one grade increase in a plastic tomb. Up the romantics!

This was always one of my favourite issues as a kid. I just love how Ditko portrays the Lizard and for some reason I always felt a bit sorry for him. The story is quite simple and basic by today's standards but it had a real sense of mystery and adventure to me. I liked the old cartoon of it too. I sometimes wish I could feel now the way I did back then about things. Wide eyed, innocent, excited. Who'd choose to grow up if they didn't have to.....

A question / answer from my 'other pence publishers' thread which might interest the regular pence enthusiasts here:

I found this one from kav: Over here, chips are your fries. Your chips are our crisps. Either way, the boards search engine sucks like a hoover

Still no sign of DiceX Roy. Should we be worried? I found this article from Chuck at Mile High, who often champions pence books: http://www.milehighcomics.com/newsletter/120908.html One extract from it: In case you're wondering, I concentrated my purchasing efforts at the London convention at seeking out 1970's and 1980's Marvel and DC comics with British Pence cover prices. There has long been a lot of controversy about British editions of US comics, with the traditional school of thought arguing that they are reprints, and as such should be priced significantly less than American editions. I quite beg to differ with that line of reasoning. I know for a fact that UK editions were actually printed at exactly the same time as American editions. This process was explained to me during the late-1970's when I actually went to Sparta, Illinois, home of the gigantic printing plant that was producing almost all American comics. Robert Craig, who was in charge of the presses, explained to me that the interiors of comics for US and UK distribution were printed at exactly the same time. The covers were then printed sequentially, with the US editions run first. Then the presses printing the covers were stopped for just a few minutes after the US run was finished, and an UK black plate (with the current Pence price) was substituted for the black plate that had US price. In my professional opinion, this changing of the black plate for British editions was the first concerted effort on the part of Marvel and DC to create variant editions. Print runs varied, but UK editions were clearly printed in far smaller numbers than US editions. My best guess is that UK editions may have constituted as few as 10% of the total print runs during the 1970's and 1980's. If true, that scuppers our theory regarding pence books having deeper colours etc. I searched Robert Craig on the Web in the hope I could find a contact point to maybe try and email him. Alas, all I found was this: http://mcdanielfh.com/tribute/details/150/Robert-Craig/obituary.html Looks like it's him, as it says "Robert began working at Spartan Printing in January 1959 and continued there until he retired on May 21, 1994" I wonder if we'll ever find someone who knows what went on. I tried Chuck a while back. He was very encouraging about my pence spreadsheet and said he'd like to do something with it (get your jokes in now) but I never heard back and didn't follow it up. Maybe I should try again.

Who's thread was it?

Yippee, a bite! Thanks for diving in FlyingDonut. Thing is, some of the titles produced during these months had very low print runs and, therefore, extremely low or potentially no newsstand copies. I'm in the UK, so only have eBay to work from, but you can't find standard $1.99 newsstands for a lot of the in frame titles, never mind price variants of them. So I'm not convinced that we'll find $2.29 / $2.49 variants for all of the titles - possibly just the 'main' ones - I've only found Spidey, Hulk, X-Men etc, but that may because they are in more plentiful supply, being more popular / prevalent / likely to be listed on eBay. We need someone to hit the back issues in US shops and start seeking them out.

It says on the box

766.67 "One! One terrible guess plucked from the thin air, ahh-ha-ha-ha-hah!"

All the current / sold eBay searches I've done down the years seem to back that position up. Not knowing what exists as a newsstand in the first instance is quite a big investigative hurdle.

Ah, I see. That would keep him busy, yes. I'm sure he'll be back when she picks up a puncture though.

What, he found a mirror then?

Never mind, thanks for looking Mr H Yes please @BishopT - you never know what's hiding in there.... I told him Craig and he said "Shove it". Honestly, he's so rude Ah, cheers @Lucky Baru - comments like that make the effort worthwhile

I see.... yes. How marvellous!

Not with my hairline Craig. It's receded so far now I comb my asss

4,000 holes in Blackburn Lancashire say not!

"Oh my.......can I play.....?"

Hello. Some posts back our good cat loving friend @Lazyboy cited a “complete lack of information and general lack of interest” as a probable cause for this thread’s subject matter failing to set the boards on fire I think he’s probably right. Information about these variants remains stubbornly elusive and, if my experience is anything to go by, anyone diving into the hunt is likely to baulk at the size of the task and then dive just as quickly out! To recap, $2.29 / $2.49 newsstand price variants exist for some $1.99 priced 1999/2000 cover dated Marvels. We don’t know why they exist however, and we don’t know specifically what exists. But I like a challenge me, so have been continuing to gather evidence since first coming across them back in the noughties. As readers of my Pence and Miller dreads will know, I rarely say ‘definitely’ when it comes to the documentation / presentation of obscure variants. Things are only 'definite' when I have proof of them that I can share. But I do like to speculate and make assumptions based on research and patterns (e.g. there are probably no ASM pence copies of issue 42 & 43 because no pence copies have been found for any Marvel title which crosses the applicable months). So, here are my latest musings on these Marvel $2.29 / $2.49 newsstand price variants. We’ll start with a ground-breaking fact. The keen eyed will notice that I’ve changed the tread title from this: …to this: This is as a result of finding this: For me, the discovery of a February 2000 cover dated variant is very significant as I have always believed the dates to end at January. When I was a Spidey Completist back in the day I managed to collect all the ASM variants (scans below and in the first post if you scroll back) and I can’t tell you how long and hard I looked for issues 9 and 14. After years of searching, often liaising with fellow completists, I finally ‘admitted defeat’ and decided the four months of October to January inclusive were probably it. But now we have a Fantastic Four #26, cover dated February. So we can start to assume that the variants crossed 5 months, not the four I’ve always believed. Five months incidentally fits with the 30 / 35 cent variant time frame, and strengthens my own belief that these variants are indeed simple market testers, as their predecessors were. It’s a big coincidence isn’t it – a five month run of higher priced newsstand books existing in tiny quantities alongside their regular priced cousins. More on that later. Some more facts. Here are the 18 confirmed variants that I have manged to find pictures of – I’ve placed them in a chart which shows each issue by month (October to February): So, six titles have variants so far as follows: Amazing Spider-Man Cable Fantastic Four Hulk Thor X-Men When you plot things on charts you start to see the patterns from which you can start to make reasonable assumptions. As I’ve worked through, I’ve pondered the following: Whenever an issue is double sized, and has a higher cover price (e.g. ASM 12, Cable 75, X-Men 94) I have found no newsstand variants. This makes sense in a way, as all the other regular sized books are $1.99 so ‘qualify’ for $2.29 / $2.49 variants. If the double size issues were involved in the price increases they would have had to have bespoke prices set for them and may have skewed any sales data if anyone was indeed vetting the % returns take up. So perhaps it’s reasonable to assume that only $1.99 priced issues will have variants. I have found no annuals with price variants (some were issued during these months) and assume these escaped the process for the same reason as above. I have only found variants for fairly established titles and not for those which would have had comparatively small print runs. Lots of speculation here though, as the lower the print run the less copies exist for you to find. But it may be that very low print run books did not get the treatment. Is it a coincidence that I haven’t found a single $2.29 FF but have found 3 $2.49 issues? Similarly, 2 x $2.29 Hulks and no $2.49 copies? The existence of the Fantastic Four #26 indicates that ASM #14 could exist. But if it does, it must be so rare as I have been looking for years. And I mean, years. Maybe the FF 26 is the only one? But why would you extend just that one title and not the others? If we consider what should exist in theory, to get a feel of overall numbers, we can view the titles from here…. http://www.dcindexes.com/features/newsstand.php?publisher=marvel&type=cover&month=10&year=1999&sort=alpha ….and add up those which should exist as a newsstand comic. If we deduct the variant covers, annuals and TPBs from October 1999 we have around 47 comics. If each has a $2.29 and $2.49 variant that’s 94 potential variants for October alone. Add another four months and we’re looking at c450 possible variants. So far, I’ve found 18. I have to say, I’ve spent a lot of time looking online for examples on and off over many years. If all that has generated a mere 18 copies, of a potential 400+ copies, it’s easy to see why these variants have not taken off. The task of identifying and collect them is a mammoth one which will likely grow harder as each year passes. I’m based in the UK so don’t have the luxury of visiting the local US shops in which you might find these books. I don’t think I’ve done too badly as it goes, as I don’t see any other data about these books anywhere else on the web. My suspicion though is that there are US collectors hunting them down as we speak, and they’re probably staying quiet as they want to gather everything they can before going public (and probably grimace whenever I post!). My final summary is as follows: There are definitely $2.29 and $2.49 priced newsstand variants of some Marvel books cover dated October 1999 to February 2000 inclusive. There may be as many as 450 of them, but it’s likely that some of the lesser titles were not produced so the actual figure may be a lot lower. In the absence of a more obvious explanation, I believe they are market testers in the same vein as the 30 / 35 cent variants from the seventies. But I can’t be sure, and would love to hear an alternative theory, if not actual proof. I won’t be looking for any more copies myself now, as it’s too time consuming and being in the UK makes it trebly difficult. But I would like to hear the thoughts of others. To that end, allow me to invite a few of what I hope are the interested / informed crowd to comment; @Lazyboy – to your knowledge, did all titles Marvel put out in these months have newsstand copies? In some cases, I can’t find an example of a regular newsstand copy never mind a price variant. Were some titles print runs so low that they would only have had direct editions produced? @mr_highgrade did you ever find any copies in your box diving? @awakeintheashes – did you ever find anything out from your enquiries elsewhere? @RockMyAmadeus – Rock, I saw you put some thoughts on the DF boards. Would you share / expand on them here? You clearly know a lot about this stuff and I’d value your input I hope you enjoyed my addition to the enigma that is the October 1999 to February 2000 Marvel newsstand price variant hunt. I enjoyed making it. If no one replies to this, the thread ends here! P.S. Two variants hiding here if anyone wants to snag them: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CABLE-73-Vol-1-Rob-Liefeld-Newsstand-UPC-Price-Variant-RARE-1999-NM/152803965516?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INCREDIBLE-HULK-5-7-9-Marvel-Comic-Books-Mixed-Lot-of-3-Issues-NM-NM-1999/131878646730?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Evening. The discerning among you will no doubt have Marvelled at our perfectly presented pence priced Pearl and Patsy pictures posted at the beginning of this thread. Note the profligate use of ‘p’s in that sentence reader - enough for a nice pea soup I posted them for a reason. They’re not really the kind of titles that set the world alight, and though they will have their suitors, many collectors pass them by in favour of the more ‘exciting’ genres. From a pence perspective (there I go again) they are significant. If we isolate the early ‘Teen Humour / Funny Girl’ titles from the pence spreadsheet (above) it makes sobering viewing. As you can see, My Girl Pearl and Patsy & Hedy are the only two titles for which a pence printed copy has been found. I bang on a lot about making assumptions about what may or may not exist, based usually on spreadsheet patterns and years of constant searching. If our three comics here did not feature (Pearl #7, Patsy & Hedy #70 & 71) you would be forgiven for making the assumption that Thorpe & Porter made a conscious decision not to import this genre of comic. Maybe they thought the humour would not resonate with the denizens of Planet 9d? When I found the My Girl Pearl #7 I was fairly dumbfounded. It’s the only copy I’ve seen in 10 years of pence investigating. The title is so obscure, that you can barely find US copies either – eBay USA (for my search engine at least) throws up a single US priced copy – here it is, alongside my pence copy: Interesting that the 10c price font is the thin one, and not the usual fat one... It’s the same story with Patsy & Hedy #71. Only two copies have been found, my #71 and a 70 which exists on the UK Comic Price Guide website. Here is my copy again, and a US example taken from eBay US. Again, the US copies are in very short supply: The existence of these pence copies opens the door for copies to exist for the other titles too. If Patsy & Hedy #70 and 71 exist, why not Patsy Walker #89 & 90? Remember, if I had not found that one solitary MGP #7 I would be saying here now that my assumption, based on patterns and research, is that it doesn’t exist as a pence title. But it does, so I cannot say the others don’t. As we move down the years, it’s easier to say with near certainty that a book doesn’t exist as a pence copy. To illustrate, the title ‘Weird Wonder Tales’ ran for 22 issues from December 1973 and pence issues have been found for only issues 5 to 11 inclusive. I can be fairly certain that the other issues don’t exist however as, being a later title, copies are comparatively plentiful and I think I would have found examples by now if they did exist. But titles such as Patsy Walker and Love Romances are very hard to find in any instance. Coupled with them crossing the first months of UK imports it’s easy to see why it would be so hard to verify their existence. So, in summary, we’re stuck on 3,007 pence copies and have been for a while. I’m 99% certain that Weird Wonder Tales won’t be adding any more issues to that number. But I cannot say the same for our Teen Humour / Funny Girl titles. It keeps the fun alive, knowing that one day a copy may surface as the My Girl Pearl did. As I always say, if only to myself, all good fun! P.S. I’m as confident as I can be that some of our early Western titles will add to the number at some point. They come along at an alarming slow rate, but they do come along… In the meantime, while we wait, here are some non-Marvel / DC pence related ramblings to tide you over:

Hello everyone First up, I feel I must apologise for Marwood’s outrageous behaviour last week. I only took my eye off of him for 5 minutes and the next thing I know he’s creating havoc everywhere, getting everybody all mock riled up and enjoying themselves in direct contravention of board policy. What a silly sausage! Suffice to say I had very strong words with him, and I can promise that he won’t be making any more satirical threads for the time being, or at least until after his well deserved 853 penalty points expire anyway. As a further penance, I forced him to write “I must not create spoof sales threads with poo in the title” 100 times with a quill pen dipped in the finest Indian ink across the cover of his Amazing Fantasy 15 (well, it works for Stan Lee!) If his rather mournful face was anything to go by, I think this may have done the trick and well and truly learned him his lesson. See, I can do proper English you know. Having said all that, a subsequent Christmas card from the unruly scapegrace today made me wonder if the pence penny actually dropped after all. “Put it up your pipe at Christmas Withnail” is not exactly indicative of the kind of ongoing repentant cheer I was looking for or indeed counting on. But look, I can’t be mad at the old dog (like sparky) for too long. He may be the quintessential cretin yes, but he does have a good heart and I couldn’t bring myself to deny him his plea to go and play out in the snow. We don’t tend to get much snow anymore in Englandville, not like in the old days anyway, so it was a rare treat indeed to go out and muck about in several inches of the old sky powder with himself and our mutual friend Mr Friendly Crow, who popped by to say his customary hello Can you see him? Now, there’s a vicious rumour doing the rounds that this thread is supposed to be about the exploration of the hitherto under the radar L Miller of Hackney variants and not about a pair of role reversed fictional halfwits. Well, as this little beauty confirms, that rumour is in fact not a rumour at all but a cast iron bloomin flippin fact: Finally we have a Two-Gun Kid with a 10c cover price and a Windy Miller interior Its existence makes the Miller chart look like this… …and brings us ever closer to the ’full picture’ that we’ve been boring threatening you with for the last 800 years (new Jedi film out by the way if you haven’t noticed. We trained them all of course, but all of our friends are in trouble, and there’s no need to go into that now). On first inspection, our TGK 57’s cover looks to be free of the usual Miller 6d price stamp. But look a little more closely and…. ….there it is! And our customary Miller interior filler is in splendid evidence inside: Well, the post would just be silly if it wasn’t, wouldn’t it. I love you, Two-Gun Kid #57 So much in fact, that I made you a pretty picture for your triple backing boarded double Mylite2'd tomb: Now those in the know of the knowing know all knowledge will know that we point blank refuse in our threads to acknowledge the existence of a variation unless we ourselves have definitive, unquestionable, concrete, iron clad proof of that said variant. Quite right too, as that way madness and confusion lies. That said, we have it on ‘good authority’ that TGK 59 has a Miller filler too. But until that ‘good authority’, exceedingly good though it is, materialises in our grubby undeserving mitts, it will remain cast out as a mere ‘possibility’ and sit in a suitable state of blankness on the Miller chart. Under normal circumstances the presentation of the latest find would conclude the post but we’re feeling particularly magnanimous today and have decided to treat you all to death with some further pontifications on the exasperational scenario that is the 9d printed price that turns into a 10c printed price with a 6d stamp and Miller indicia which turns into a 9d T&P book. Yes, that one. Those in the know of the knowing know all knowledge will know that Miller solicits his first two Marvel original books with 9d printed prices, a Miller indicia and then inexplicably proceeds to stick a 6d stamp on the cover. He then solicits a 10c printed cover for 12 months, still with a Miller indicia and then the 6d stamp again. And then Thorpe & Porter come barging in all indignant, kick the Millers into touch and take over like the fat corporate bullies they are (or were). Those in the know of the knowing know all knowledge know this. But those in the complete knowledge of the full knowing overall knowledge know further. They know that Miller also solicited the comics of Bobby Charlton. Yes, you heard us correctly – Bobby Bloomin Charlton! If we look at our misunderstood friend GORGO here, we can see an LM 6d printed price on issue number 2 dated August 1961: This price ties in with our 12 month Marvel Miller phase of Sep 60 to Aug 61 where the 10c Miller Marvels took 6d cover stamps. Hop on to issue 7 of GORGO and Miller is showing a printed 9d price on the cover as well as a nicely portrayed rock fight between GORGO and his Mum: So we can see that Miller thought 6d was a reasonable price for a comic book pre Aug 61, and 9d after. T&P of course were greedy corporate blood suckers and took the full 9d from the off. Trust them. But this all begs question that even those in the knowing know all knowledge don’t know the answer to. Namely, why start with Marvel 9d printed prices, then change to 10c prices when you could have just asked for 6d printed prices a la Charltons GORGO? Was it T&Ps greed which set the Millers first books at 9d? Did the printers only have a 9d plate when the Englandville deals were struck? (“What’s that Barry, you want me to run a ton of 10c copies, then stop the press and run a few 9d copies, then stop the press again and run a 6d lot? Barry, are you out of your tiny Bod fearing mind?”) Meanwhile, why is GORGO being shot at by the military? He seems quite a friendly chap to us and looks like he’s just saying hello really. OK, he’s levelled the building, I can see that, but no one is perfect, least of all Marwood who can’t even run a spoof sales thread without needlessly including things which he knows will get it pulled! And, I suppose, GORGO should know better too. A few magic tricks would have sufficed. Building smashing rarely goes down well during an introduction of the third kind. Just ask ET, and that was just a garden shed. Well that’s it for now I’m afraid dear reader. But please, don’t be too down hearted as we’ll be back soon once the respective medications have kicked in / worn off. In the meantime, if you’re a fan of the minutiae of comic variations cloaked to the point of near unreadability in a sea of general unmitigated nonsense, do pop by our other threads for further such ‘entertainment’. I’m going to punish Marwood further I’ve decided by getting him to clear up all the snow with a tea spoon and a tooth brush. That’ll teach the cretin. And woe betide if I catch him on the phone to Mr Plow… What was his name again? Chin-chin! P.S. Can anybody tell us how to get rid of that damn dog Sparky. Look at him, lurking in the back ground there thinking we can’t see him. Can another FDQE be far off? What a cretin!

Where's me pen...just...note that....down......Chip.....Ca-tal-do......no...sense of....humour. Right. OK, where was I?

OK, it happened!