grapeape

It’s a touchy subject for artists. John Romita has handled this with the most grace. I admire him greatly. I love to support artists in any way I can. I prefer buying directly from them if and when possible.Ive kept every sketch or drawing obtained by artists for the personal memory and out of respect. if artists today can keep the rights to their work, the art, that’s great. Anyone who listens to minute 42-44 of that clip should be able to understand where this is going. We don’t need adversarial relationships via a vi collector and artist. Save the bile for the companies that hired you and help make changes. Don’t let them take advantage. Sort it out in contract before your artistic journey.

Exciting times for HA and the Batman 251 Cover. There’s a thread on the subject and a video with Neal Adams discussing the “authenticity” of said cover. On the thread video see minute 42-44.

Many artists did get some of their art back. Then they sold those pieces at FMV. By today’s standards pennies on the dollar. That’s life. My first house I bought in Las Vegas in 1993 for $90k. I sold it in 2000 for $125k. Today the house is worth half a million. As much as I’d like to revisit the new owner to “authenticate” that half million dollar valuation and collect more money that’s not how life should work. imagine listing your home for sale with your agent today. The real estate market is at a place where you’ve decided to cash in on your investment. The signs are up and the property is listed. Original owner, builder whatever shows up and says; Your house could go for a million. Or.....not. Also he wants a commission for today’s value. ??????? But this is my house, I paid for it. Why would I pay you? Because...... I drafted the architecture design, which I was paid for. But now I’d like to get paid again. For my design drawings which was meant for the bin once the house was built. Or yes I owned it. But when I sold it I didn’t know it would sky rocket in value. So I’d like more. Tell me something. if I grapeape win that BM cover 251 at HA and five years from now at resale it goes 200k less which one of you kind folks will cover my losses?

I know sentimental feelings are there for the artists. I have them. I want a balance though. Ask John Romita and all these other artists. No one thought these pieces of art board were going to be worth 2 cents. The value for the artists is what they are able to do now. I don’t know what Neal makes a year. I do know this. He’s working Cons, has a website. Fans do support his talent and legacy and want to buy from him directly. I wish Neal the best:

Lucky if this art was up in mums attic and she invited the buyer in to make her a fair offer on an item she wasn’t sure of.....and he smiled and said I’ll give you $800 that would be dubious. Paying a dealer his asking price is all that’s required. Absolute zero moral ethical breach here. if you go out tomorrow to buy a home for $80,000 and your research tells you it’s worth $800,000 are you going to tell the seller to take more money from you? I feel bad for the seller because he didn’t do his job. Know your business. He by no means was robbed. i feel great for the buyer. You can’t even with certainty talk about money on this piece until the new owner sells it. Fear and greed dictate many of the valuations given to art. If you’re selling you pray you’re not giving it away for a song. When you’re buying you pray you’re not over paying. If you don’t want to be a slave to fear and greed know your art and.buy what you love.That seller went home happy he got full asking price for something that’s been likely laying around his store or office for twenty years. If he ever finds out he’ll be devastated. .

That’s true. My thing with Neal is he has a chip on his shoulder. I met him with my brother over 2O years ago. My brother asked how much a commission of Batman would be and Neal said $600. my brother took a second to digest the asking price and Neal lost it. “Hey, you wanna go online and see what people are selling my stuff for?” It took us both back. We’ve been advocates for artists. I personally would always prefer buying from an artist or their family directly so they get the best benefit. But Bronty you know the reality of this “thing of ours” ha ha. It doesn’t always work that way. Not just us but other collectors have mentioned how Neal can come off defensive sometimes. I said as much as you in that Neal’s bread and butter is the commission work. The conventions. At the Con in Hollywood photos $30. Hey more power to Neal. I really want him to do well. Neal please remember your fans. We are not your enemy. Neal can be a real sweet guy but I have felt that sting in the way he talks sometimes where he feels ripped off. That “no one gets it.” Listen to the auction from minute 42-44 its revealing. No matter what I’m a huge fan but adversarial feelings between fans and artists is bad for everyone. I am paraphrasing from that video but Neal says he likes to work on today’s projects and stay in the present. Some of these COA moves seem to undercut that sentiment. I wish him well. To the consignor I wish you well. I can’t tell you what to do but I know what I would do. Come on November get here already.

It just feels like he’s leaning on the consignor.In fairness he didn’t publicly ask for a percentage on this one. I am also of the opinion that the collector that would buy this would see through the authenticity nonsense. However I am taking a stand the same way I would if two neighborhood fellas walked in to my store and told me “Don’t worry, we are here now so no need for anything to go wrong. You’ll be safe so long as you give Bobby the envelope every two weeks.”

Bronty I’ve taken 2 hot showers in the last hour to wash away how I feel about this grotesquely off putting shakedown.

Between minute 42-44 Neal clearly calls into question the authenticity of the cover. He infers that there are people calling into question if it’s authentic. He throws it out there that if authenticated (by Neal) it could sell for one million dollars. But he doesn’t see it happening if the authenticity of the piece isn’t resolved. Very bad form Neal. Your expertise 100% not needed here. Read between the lines the artist implies that he can be the key to drive a $1,000,000 final hammer. Or....he can make enough noise to cause doubt and wreck the auction. Neal you are one of the best artists in comics history. Let it go man. These old pages and covers are only worth this much, (and I take the liberty to speak for a good portion of CGC boardies) BECAUSE WE COLLECTORS ARE INSANE !! Bonkers !! Neal I sat through 50 minutes of that auction to hear your own words. Time to start thinking about your legacy. You had 3 drawings in that auction. $500 each and the auctioneer and camera man have no idea if they come with your “COA.” When do the bidders find out? After they buy? Associated with rubbish. And have to love the auctioneer describing one of the books as “almost near mint.” When the caller asks Neal “what do you think the final bid will be on your cover?” The camera man talks over the first part of Neal’s response. Shut up “money” the most intriguing thing to come out of this 55 minute torture fest is Neal’s response. SHUT UP !!! Absolute rubbish Neal. You are playing a foolish game with the HA auction as an influencer. I want to enjoy this auction remembering that this was IMHO the best cover you ever made. I want your name to be in a positive light when BM 251 lights up the HA scoreboard. i have no stomach for this public gamesmanship. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’re reaping huge rewards selling to thirsty fans like us. Stop inferring that every older piece coming up for sale might be stolen from you or not authentic. Stop. Now knowing a bit more about what’s going on any thoughts on the over under $1,000,000?

I guess not certifying it could place doubts on authenticity and hurt bidding on the art. However the stunning art work speaks for itself. Neal knows that's 100% his piece. I can't blame him for trying but I can't help feeling a bit put off by it if that's his move. Were he to continue later publicly casting aspersions say if unable to meet/make a deal with the consignor that could negatively interfere with the legitimacy (bidding)on the cover. With or without Neal's approval I do believe we're going to see a moon shot final bid.

It’s like when u hit submit on a CAF COMMENT AND IT POSTS FOUR TIMES.

Amen

There is no moral ambiguity here. Unless there are details to the story we’re not privy too this was a legit transaction. Here’s what I would love to see from a car wreck busy body observer perspective. To the lucky buyer. Please Please Please 1) Flip this quickly in 2020 HA auction or 2) list it for buy it now $100k on eBay and off all the saints on the chat board. The quicker you flip it the sooner we know 1) What a great deal you made 2) What a greedy you are Then we can move this thread to FLIP OF THE DAY and eat popcorn while the haves and the have nots squabble over what’s acceptable. Look I can think of a few instances where the seller might be a cad. This ain’t one of them. I don’t know the buyers intentions either. Did he just land a I’ll never sell this it goes in the permanent collection grail? Would the puritans like to let us know what the proper amount of mourning time the buyer has to observe before he can sell this find? Heres a proposition I am offering the buyer $16000 cash right now for the cover. The offer stands until Sunday at midnight. It’s not 50 k but it’s cash and I’ll relieve you of any guilt you might feel for paying the seller the price he asked for. Oh and two more conditions: You have to split the16k I give you with the convention seller. And donate a thank you fee $1600 to the comic artist.

Yeah maybe I could get three easy installment payments.....

I agree. I actually believe if it was offered up now it would do very well at auction. Or in a private sale. Either way I hope the buyer just enjoys it. He obviously valued it more than the seller. I don't know how long the seller owned this piece. It would have taken one phone call by that seller to HA for example to learn he had a very valuable piece of art.

"F--- the G-Ride, I want the machines that are making them."----- R A M

I would love a Real Basquiat. Guessing 888 is not the place to go for a real one.

There is no moral ambiguity here. Unless there are details to the story we’re not privy too this was a legit transaction. Here’s what I would love to see from a car wreck, busy body observer perspective. To the lucky buyer. Please Please Please 1) Flip this quickly in 2020 HA auction or 2) list it today for buy it now $100k on eBay and trigger all the saints on the chat board. The quicker you flip it the sooner we know 1) What a great deal you made or 2) What a greedy Bum you are Then we can move this thread to FLIP OF THE DAY and eat popcorn while the haves and the have nots squabble over what’s acceptable. Look I can think of a few instances where the buyer might be a cad. This ain’t one of them. I don’t know the buyers intentions either. Did he just land a Grail he intends to keep? Would the puritans like to let us know what the proper amount of mourning time the buyer has to observe before he can sell this find? Heres a proposition I am offering the buyer $16000 cash right now for the cover. The offer stands until Sunday at midnight. It’s not 50 k but it’s cash and I’ll relieve you of any guilt you might feel for paying the seller the price he asked for. Oh and two more conditions: You have to split the16k I give you with the convention seller. And donate a thank you fee $1600 to the comic artist. To the seller I’m not heartless. I truly wish you knew what you were doing before you sold this. I honestly pray no one tells you and you can go about life clueless and happy. For the buyer cheers man! This is what many of us dream of. For what it’s worth the prudent thing probably was to keep this one buried for a bit before revealing. That being said it’s yours and you do what the heck you like. This could have been worse gang. Los Bros de Nor Cal could’ve have crossed the border and found the Swamp Thing. Instead this goes down as one of the great stories of recent times in our hobby. Cheers

https://images.app.goo.gl/xZz3RqDftPQGnbFp6

This is what collectors dream about. Paying $800 for an item that I agree probably would hammer for at least $50k is a phenomenal financial gain. It’s the finding of such an item and the successful acquiring of said item that thrills the collector: what a story to share over and over again for the rest of their life. Good guys? Bad guys? A Winner definitely. A Loser? Well......... Five minutes of that sellers time to call HA and say “What have a I got?” would have served him well. Many years ago two collectors found a painting in a used book store: recognized it from a sixties-seventies horror show. How much? $500 oh and I have another in the back.$500 The collectors paid up and drove the items over to Profiles in History selling them for $16500. Comics in the attic. baseball cards in coffee cans. It’s the heartbeat of collectors. The buyer found the item, assessed its genuineness and paid the asking price. To the victor the spoils.

Ha Ha Ha ..... So help me I knew when I scrawled through these four "masterpieces" I would see you and the face palm.

Fantastic Cosmic KIRBY

I printed the image of it and pasted it onto a college journal I had to submit at the end of semester. The professor said my work was fairly standard but the unsolicited cover added to my notebook put me over the top. Again thank you Jack Kirby.

Buying raw books is a nightmare. I believe you and hope they don't go against you on this one. I would stay away from non slabbed books on the internet and only buy them in person after inspection. Good luck.