grapeape

The art work genius. The subject matter sometimes is not my cup of tea. Now perversion I think I know when I see it displayed but some think the statue of David is perverse. The artwork of Crumb genius.

That’s one for the boardies Ricky

I wish you all the best Mitch. 🍇. 🦍

I flipped a page to an auction house two years ago. True story I was in the dentist chair getting a crown done. During breaks from this fun procedure I tracked and won an eBay auction for a Gil Kane page all Spider-Man paid $1500. On my I phone. it was a neat page and I was sure it was worth more than I paid for it. I showed it to a few reps from an auction house at a con, they begged me to list it. “We need a really strong Spider-Man example and we think you’d do well,” they told me. I began testing the waters. I wound up getting them so worked up I negotiated them buying the page outright from me. $3000 i doubled my money. Then I sweated it out. What if this page goes for $5-6k? I waited. Auction day I held my breath. I was also worried what if it sells too low? and the auction house gets ticked at me. It went down....a few dollars over what I originally paid about $1550. The auction house lost money. With all the info out there I recommend you do your research before buying. Many times you can find what a piece recently sold for. Helps you decide how bad do I want this page? Should I pay more than the last known sale price? That in general is how you guys have been identifying and reporting the FLIP OF THE DAY. Now it goes both ways. Guys like Mike Burkey are lightning quick to replace a dollar price with SOLD. That’s good for the buyer. When he goes to sell only those who paid attention will remember the last sold price value. I was hurt when I found a 80’s Carmine Infantino interior page with Batman wiping the floor with a super villain. I overpaid $1500 but I believe I had some meat on the bone if it was seen at auction. I listed it and it sold for $1556 so a net loss paying auction fee. What hurt me is the small comic hobby shop I bought the piece from refused to take the sold piece down or remove the price and show as sold. I’m positive sharp collectors searched the internet for the original art page and found the price I paid for it. So as a buyer I like guys like Romitaman that take away the price once sold. As a seller I’m at a disadvantage if the website I bought from does not remove that sale price. Ive benefited both ways but I had to learn the hard way. What works for you can also work against you. I’ve never in my life flipped to an uneducated rube. There were times where I was hounded for a piece that was clearly marked NFS on my CAF. I’ve also been hounded by dealers when they go through my portfolio. With dealers I expect they know their field. So I go to war accordingly. With someone contacting me about their grail, I gotta have it please sell it to me and so on I think about my NFS piece. Is there any reasonable price I would take? If not I politely decline and offer the obligatory olive branch. “Yes I will contact you if I ever decide to sell.” If I do decide to throw out a sales price I use the following formula to determine the price. NFS x ( LTR) x FMV = BASE $ (5) or Not for sale multiplied by Learn to Read multiplied by Fairmarket value = my base valuation multiplied by five. NFS valued at 1 LTR valued at 1 So my FF 200 page FMV $2500 1 x 1 x $2500 = $2500 x 5 = $12500 So my unsolicited base is $12500 Subject to Los Bros inquire tax = 3 x FMV or 3 x $2500 = $750O + $12500= $$20000. Now apply a 10% artist tax for the artist so Keith Pollard $2000 Joe Sinnott $2000 Now a Future gains reward tax 50% goes to Profiles in History who sold me the page twenty years ago. I paid them of course but they deserve more because the page wound up being worth so much more than I paid them. That’s $10,000 You still with grape-ape? $20,000 - $2000-$2000-$10,000=$6000 If I’ve missed any redistribution values or mark up values please post a response and I’ll reconfigure my calculations. 🍇. 🦍

SAL BUSCEMA 🦗 🦗 🦗 😂 😐 Frank Quietly 👏 👏 👏 Most of the others you all have mentioned suit me. 🍇🦍

Checkmate

Crumb almost fits in his own category of influence and genius. I can’t really explain what he’s doing but I love looking deeply into his art hand finish.

+ 1

I do I all the time Square C 😉 no worries 🍇. 🦍

Shemp did you...did you highlight the dead guys in bold black..? C o l d b l o o d e d

+ 1

I’m not giving you money. You’ll probably just “waste” it on Schulz dailies and Sundays.

Thanks friend. I appreciate that.

Precisely. It’s absurd I know. we’re clearly working in circles where in many cases we collectors know more than the auction houses. The “Kirby” recreations and on and on. Skepticism is prudent and knowing that money drives so much of the shady parts of what we love about art collecting is crucial.

yes sir! It's not always obvious. It's a casual throwaway line or two. "There are people....." "authenticity" "question" ESeffinga I'm sure you recognize some of the arguments in this thread and in the Purchase of the Year SWAMP THING 37 thread. Many hands in the pockets of the buyer of the ST 37 cover. In this BM 251 thread to some it seems obvious and "moral" to collect a tax or dictate a percentage to be given to the artist. This thinking is exploding beyond these threads but we'll leave it there. No warnings needed for things we're not allowed to say here. Under the circumstances I believe some of us made a rational defense of the ownership of our art. Yourself included.

You say that if you were bidding on Neal’s art it would be good to have him approve so that he or his estate would not later claim ownership. At first glance that would seem prudent. However should art collectors use due diligence with every piece of art out there on the market concerning the dateline and provenance of ownership? Should we seek out the living relatives of all the great artists who’ve passed away? Do they have a claim or issue on the art I want to buy. Will they pursue me legally after I buy. Did Romitaman do his due diligence on the page he’s selling me? if I try to sell do I do the same? To avoid some artist or relative showing up a month before my presumably owned and paid for art goes to auction. Im arguing for Neal to privately speak to consignors and auction houses if he must to avoid interference. I’m asking Neal or other artists to reveal which pieces were stolen? List ALL individual stolen art pieces. Not blanket lists suggesting all your pages could be in question when you know that simply isn’t true. Don’t hit me again with statute of limitations boardies please. Don’t insist this is Neal’s only course of action please boardies. The only way collecting-buying-selling- trading comic art works is if the parties involved have trust. If this BS continues along with other nonsense ( fake art, criminal behavior like forged signatures on art) we will lose our way. The seas are rough and I’m looking for calm. I do empathize with Neal. I’m almost always on the artists side. I would however betray common sense by not calling Neal out. i will give you that the question Neal was asked maybe put him on the spot. Never the less his response was telling and mirrors an attitude of belligerence and cuteness when it comes to negotiating. Mitch noted a rage about stolen art. Mitch notes a more reasonableness when Neal was reminded of just how much art was sold on his behalf. This argument never was about what Neal may or may not be due. Its calling out Neal for interference. Neal is a smiling, jovial sometimes grumpy beloved man. A genius artist. I am a fan and a collector. I’m standing up to Neal because he is thinking only of himself and what he deserves. He’s doing what he has to do. Im pushing back because I don’t want to traffic in Neal’s work if there’s the slightest chance I’ll be accused of thievery. No one will come to me after I pay for a piece of art and “ask” for a percent and get it. I won’t be bullied. No one will come to me when I want to sell something I own and paid for and “ask” for a consulting-authentication fee and get paid. I won’t handover the “protection” money. I love Neal but if any artist, or estate is going to approach me for a bite you better ( 1 ) Show me proof of ownership ( 2 ) Show me the police report with my art listed as your stolen art You can see where this is going. Auction houses are going to have to help establish a data base with legal status of everything bought or sold in their auctions. Every page splash and cover. How would we possibly establish such a thing? All art held privately or circulating on dealer web sites at this point should be clear of any cloud or suspicion. Any living artist or estate for deceased artists should publicly present a list of any disputed art. Maybe the auction houses as well as CAF fan based web sites publish that list for the good of all. Even if the statute of limitations has passed. Then at least we can have a civil discourse on all the different solutions offered up here. The resolution of any disputed past statute of limitations would take place between artist- estate and seller-rep. 99% of these situations would rely on a resolution recognizing that it’s the owner not the artist- estate that will decide if they will act out of generosity. Generosity. If I were to give Neal anything, it would be based on generosity. Not obligation. Whether artist, collector, buyer or seller we must represent the collecting of original comic art with passion, integrity and positivity. Neal the passion collectors feel for your work or any other artists work fuels the demand for what you are doing everyday. I truly believe that interfering with the presumed integrity of buying and selling in this hobby will be damaging using the current approach. In turn it can effect what your doing everyday selling art to fans. Your COAs mean nothing to me honestly. What if the OA market collapses? I can study the lines on your work and determine a real or fake. It’s what I do. Please chill out and enjoy what you’re doing. Your fans like me are not your enemy. I’m asking for everyone to play nice. It’s not fair for me to buy something or sell something and have the Ghost of Opportunity visit my wallet. Like Mitch suggested list individually what is stolen or.......

I like that word for this situation. INTERFERENCE

Spot on Gene. The assumption that every collector bought art for a song and now stands to make MASSIVE profits is rubbish. Neal if BM 251 is stolen file the police report and demand HA stop the auction. Approaching HA or publicly asserting that the bidding could be less than stellar without your blessing, not cool. Neal, IS THIS YOUR COVER ? Was it stolen? Should it be returned to you? if so take the proper legal steps or go radio silent. It’s not ok to manipulate an auction. If you can negotiate privately and someone feels compelled to pay you off....I can’t do anything about that. Collectors think about this. If artists or estates can strong arm consignors and auction houses for percentages of sales or percentages of auction fees on a regular basis, it’s not good for this “thing of ours.” A one off is one thing but this sounds like the standard MO lately.

Thank you for posting this video. Turned out to spark some interesting thoughts.

You asked him for a copy of the police report? That’s champion balls my friend! brilliant

You could ask Neal to write you a short letter saying something about “when” he actually made your recreation. He might do it and maybe for a charge. Is that the one and only recreation of the 251 ?

There seems to be a question...in some people’s...... There seems to be a question, of the authenticity of that cover. There’s some question....I’m hoping to settle that question, but I cannot at this time so. I think it could go for a million dollars.But the authenticity in question I don’t see how it can do anything like that. But..we’ll see what happens.———Neal Adams (see the video above 42-44) I’ve spoken today with a high level HA rep. The cover is 100% without a doubt the real original art cover. Neal has raised the issue of authenticity with HA recently...same as he did with the GL GA cover. So......Neal if I win the cover I’ll let you take a picture with me and the art, for 10%

It’s a touchy subject for artists. John Romita has handled this with the most grace. I admire him greatly. I love to support artists in any way I can. I prefer buying directly from them if and when possible.Ive kept every sketch or drawing obtained by artists for the personal memory and out of respect. if artists today can keep the rights to their work, the art, that’s great. Anyone who listens to minute 42-44 of that clip should be able to understand where this is going. We don’t need adversarial relationships via a vi collector and artist. Save the bile for the companies that hired you and help make changes. Don’t let them take advantage. Sort it out in contract before your artistic journey.

Exciting times for HA and the Batman 251 Cover. There’s a thread on the subject and a video with Neal Adams discussing the “authenticity” of said cover. On the thread video see minute 42-44.

Many artists did get some of their art back. Then they sold those pieces at FMV. By today’s standards pennies on the dollar. That’s life. My first house I bought in Las Vegas in 1993 for $90k. I sold it in 2000 for $125k. Today the house is worth half a million. As much as I’d like to revisit the new owner to “authenticate” that half million dollar valuation and collect more money that’s not how life should work. imagine listing your home for sale with your agent today. The real estate market is at a place where you’ve decided to cash in on your investment. The signs are up and the property is listed. Original owner, builder whatever shows up and says; Your house could go for a million. Or.....not. Also he wants a commission for today’s value. ??????? But this is my house, I paid for it. Why would I pay you? Because...... I drafted the architecture design, which I was paid for. But now I’d like to get paid again. For my design drawings which was meant for the bin once the house was built. Or yes I owned it. But when I sold it I didn’t know it would sky rocket in value. So I’d like more. Tell me something. if I grapeape win that BM cover 251 at HA and five years from now at resale it goes 200k less which one of you kind folks will cover my losses?