grapeape

1983......

Everything you say is true. I don’t know what the answer is. I know we were dealing with “Experts” and a large segment of the collecting public that simply could not grade at all. No ability to detect restoration. Or sold restored books without disclosure Or claimed that higher grade restored books were worth infinitely more then lower grade unrestored.... So when I say cleaned up, (pardon me) a better word was “saved” the comic collecting hobby. Awful to say that I know. Now as you point out our trust is only as good as the third party we hand our books off to. As a comic man raw is all I ever wanted. I predicted CGC would ruin comics as collectors wanted to inspect, inside and out their comics. To smell the pages. In 2020 raw books are only as good as when they are turned to slabbed books. I cringe with all of the soul slavery, let someone else grade for me traps that slabbing poses. It is today’s reality. To me clean up means raw books vs. slabbed books met up for a gun fight. Raw books showed up with knives. They never had a chance. Tons more restored books were detected there’s no doubt about that. But crooks be crooks. No one is infallible. There was too long a period in collecting where the Dupcaks and other slugs manipulated and defrauded the market. Are their creeps out there in the comic world today? Art? Baseball Cards? Yes Yes Yes

Alter Ego Magazine Vol 2, No. 4 Spring 1999 Bob “Keith” Greene the interviewer Steve Ditko and Richard “Grass” Green Illustrations

From Overstreet Magazine 1994

Also from 1999

This one is from 1999.....

I’m sorry for that happening to you. Cards, comics and art. Targets for greedy monsters to prey on collectors. Slabbing definitely cleaned up comics overall. Still your Batman 11 CGC—-that sends chills down the spine. Like you I am tempted to dip in on a few comics. I sold a Werewolf By Night 7.0 at Comic Link this past summer for $1289. I literally bought it for a quarter when I was six. I had no idea it was worth anything like that. I got excited to try and find some comics like that. The big ones in the silver age though have soared into the stratosphere. Action 1 and Detective 27 probably was never gonna happen for me either haha so goodbye Golden Age. It’s nice to have a collection that has value financially. But the money corrupts and the temptation to get cute and clever inspires the wicked to get busy.

Happy Birthday John. You are a superb human being. Simply the nicest man I’ve ever met: I hope you and the family really enjoy this special day. Love from Mike and all my brothers

If Mike answers me I’ll ask him that too.

Presumably (that Mike T is speaking of your pinup) from Jacks contribution the character pin up of Kublak was done by Kirby. I can’t put the pinup and Mike’s words together yet.

Still waiting for a response from the fellas at Genesis West. 🦗 🦗 🦗 I did find these exerts from an article from a Jack Kirby Collector when John Morrow interviewed Mike Thibodeaux. Kublak was eventually going to have a 3 story comic but it never came about. while reading this a little help as “excited about inking over Jack” gets cut off.

It might have helped me that I included a few blank sheets of paper and a self addressed stamped envelope when I wrote to Steve.

I think what Theakston did was deplorable and I defended Kirby’s honor when the S hit the fan. Deplorable because he claimed to know who did what but refused to name names. After the initial anger I began to consider the possibly of shenanigans. My conclusion is that Jack would never deliberately pull a hoax on anyone. It’s not who he was. But....was the perfect storm of circumstances present between 1983-1993 that made shenanigans plausible? I think Mark Evanier is a top notch guy. However objectivity from a writer may be expected if not required, is it possible that it was not necessarily applied? A lot of people were friends with Jack and wanted to help him. So, like Greg there are some who’ve been around long enough to connect a lot of dots. Who had access to Jack? Who worked with Jack? What was the physical observations concerning his ability to draw 1983-1993 ? Who would be motivated to help Jack? There’s enough wonky there to give pause. Greg’s motivations are what I questioned ultimately. As much as I dislike what he did and said many some items out there are presented as all Kirby have little or no Kirby art.

Multiple times I had to intervene to have auctions taken down based on a pic of artwork I owned in my possession. Some were bad copies and some were my real owner image passed off as theirs. The crooks are everywhere. It can be unnerving. That seller may have bought a copy/fake. Or he may have been selling a copy/fake that he made and you busted him. Awful.

I understand that. My comfortability is based on seeing an artists work over a long period of time. For the most part buying or receiving a sketch from the artist is the best way to avoid getting burned.

Some of us have been around this thing of ours a long time. Sometimes knowing something for certain and proving it (we are not in a courtroom) are two different things. its easy to dismiss the advice on here. Just know that for the most part it is left here to make people think. It can seem snarky, know it all and darn right!! I get it. Still if I was anywhere near heartbreak(owning, buying, selling fake, stolen counterfeit or forged material) I’ll take that sobering message anyway I can get it. Sometimes there’s a tendency to circle the wagons not facing the fact that we might be circling the drain. And before I get blown up I’m not talking about Y O U. Unless what I’m saying feels like I’m talking to you. Here to learn and to help. The Grape of Ape

Hang tight I reached out to Genesis West to get more info on this piece. I’m waiting to hear back. Then I’ll share what I find out. grape ape 🍇 + 🦍

This is why I respect Vodou. Please read this cautionary tale carefully. It speaks to what we are debating here. Salvador Dali was a nut job. His eccentric personality aside, his pursuit of money (nothing wrong with that) contributed to what a I believe was an “accidental chaos.” The writer tries to romanticize Dalis negligence as perhaps deliberate mischief. Either way you have the classic ingredients for fraud. 1) Artist doesn’t protect his work, he doesn’t protect his signature 2) Hungry middle men cut corners ( dishonestly many flat out contributed to fraud) 3) An art starved collectors field throws money at these prints, overlooking red flags, trusting others without educating themselves Now try cleaning this mess up. Dalí is gone R I P. Those invested must insist on protecting questionable art. They will defend the indefensible. Read Vodou’s link about Dalí and think of some of the illogical reasoning presented not only here but in other threads. Honestly I hope our look at “Shuster originals” is a wake up call. Nice job Vodou

Oh yeah. Grand Master Press and Trim. Awful stuff yes. I think what bothered me more was how many people came to his defense. I argued with some collectors when we first started hearing about this. There was a thread where (maybe his friends?) were indignant. •What proof do you have •Even so what is the crime? Awful. Greed winning out over reason and good ethics. In comics. In our art world. I cringe every time there is a defense of bad behavior. This stuff is worth too much money. Those poor cursed souls that bought heavily from J E are screwed. Some I suspect may have passed on their misfortune to others. There are a few comics I would like to buy before I die. I gave up comics collecting 25 years ago. But I’ve thought of a short list I’d like to pursue. Here’s the rub: Even with slabbing which I believe saved comic collecting from implosion, I worry about some of the “restoration” tricks that got past graders awhile back. What if I buy one of those books? Will I ever know? Will I find out ten years from now and there’s no recourse? Yeah DD and JE if only it was just you two. Again I don’t like to rip anybody on here. With that said if you support bad behavior, or try to manipulate the boards to support propping up questionable art or fraudulent practices you will get called out.

Much of the art from that catalog is still available and with pics !!!!! But today pics but no prices. But you can send them an email. In the subject header type INQUIRE. You will eventually get a price quote at a “slight tick up” from release date of San Mateo 5.

Speaking of Dupcak whatever happened to Jan??? Who could ever forget the • I’m Dating Dan Dupcak thread?• Absolute comedy gold....

Don’t give up on us buddy uh nah.....I take it back. You did all you could..... Give up !!!

Things mothers should teach their children 1)Wipe the Dupcak off your shoes before coming in the house 2) Wash your hands after making a Dupcak 3) Never buy a Mickey Mantle rookie card from Dupcack 4) Private Auctions on eBay are the devils work

I think many of the expert opinions here are meant to eliminate delusions of grandeur. Sometimes we want something to be authentic so badly that we don’t see the truth. That being said RICKYBOBBY you have a point that expert opinions are not always delivered with empathy. They can feel like attacks. I like to temper what I say when it comes to calling something a fake unless I’m 100% sure. In this situation with the Action 1 it’s incumbent upon the experienced collectors to point out huge red flags. I stop short of calling it a fake. I will pass when it is auctioned again because it doesn’t pass the smell test for me.

I appreciate a different opinion. Again the thing I stress, the most important action is to study the art. Where is our Shuster expert? There were numerous “Kirby” pieces sold by collectors, dealers and auction houses with “impeccable pedigrees.” Later those pieces came in to question or were roundly dismissed by very knowledgeable people. Also I’m not calling anyone out but if folks out there own a “Shuster” recreation or drawing and are chiming in one way or the other disclosure is important. I know there are legit recreations out there done by many artists living and dead. I stay away from them like the plague. It’s profound that you said “I wish Joe was around so we could ask him.” There’s not a piece in my collection that I own where I wish I could ask the artist, ”Did you do this?” I know for sure. I studied the artists for 30 years—-nothing compared to some of my hero’s on the board (you know who you are.) If there’s any doubt I pass. Always Things like signatures on art absolutely do not in and of themselves validate the art. It can only be one piece of an incomplete story. If it’s not published you need provenance. Chain of ownership. Witnesses to the creation of the art. On and on. Its the Wild West our there. Fakes everyday on eBay. Creeping into auction houses. This auction was a disaster.