Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 8:39 AM, drotto said:

But the creep engine idea was predicted on the fact that the old new slabs applied pressure mainly on the edges of the book to hold the book in place.  This edge pressure with a lack of center pressure, in addition to the lose mylar sheets was causing the waves. The idea was 100% built around the idea of pressure.  The new new case does not apply any pressure to the books so the theory does not apply here.

 

I could see an inner well that was too small, or sealed incorrectly causing a wave, but that is a different issue, not the creep engine effect. It has been said that the new inner well are smaller, and that may be an issue.

I accept what you're saying about the newest slab not having the construction that is associated with the creep engine.  In my particular example, here's what I'm working with...a newest generation of slab (having a well) containing a book that is exhibiting the characteristic waviness associated with the creep engine AND the grader's notes NOT mentioning any waviness whatsoever.  This would lead one to at least consider that the waviness was not present when the book was graded and slabbed, and therefore occurred afterward while the book remained incased.  Could a too-small well be the cause?  Certainly, but that situation has never come up before as far as I know.  You'd think a too-small well would be patently obvious right when the book was put into it.  My next move is obviously to contact CGC and see if this is something that has come up before and if they will re-slab with a larger-welled case.

I appreciate the input that everyone has provided, I'm glad we have a forum like this to hash these things out.

12 hours ago, mschmidt said:

The "creep engine" only applies to the 1st generation of CGC's newest slabs - the ones that did not have an inner well, but rather had the books floating in-between 2 mylar sheets. Those are the books that CGC have been re-holdering for free over the last year or so.

In the current version of CGC's slab (the one with an inner well), there's no more pressure on the book than there was in the previous generation holder - there's no creep engine at work in those slabs.

 

 

Actually, the final determiner of whether a creep-engine effect has occurred is not technically what generation of holder the book has resided in but whether the book, at the time of slabbing, was wave-free, and after some measure of time later was found to have developed the waviness in question.  Again, no older CGC slabs, no CBCS slabs and no PGX slabs have been associated with this anomaly as far as I know.

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:24 PM, Paddy_McShillihan said:

These weren't here when slabbed ...

 

Exactly, this is the same anomaly mine is exhibiting, although nowhere near as severe as yours.  There are lots of other examples if one takes some time and does some research, and the most incriminating indication that there's something going on is that, AFAIK, this problem has ONLY been associated with this particular type of slab.

It is called the "creep engine" and is explained here...https://comicsheatingup.net/2016/06/17/cgc-new-case-debate-explained/

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 8:32 AM, drotto said:

Explain to me why this design would cause any waves though?  With the pressure case it seemed like we had a good explanation. With the current case I know that outer case is much stiffer, and sealed more tightly, but the basic shell and inner well setup is not different then generation two cases. On the surface there is no reason it should be causing waves.  I have at least 25 books in the new case with no issues.

Because if the book is sealed too tightly in the Mylar because it has to be squeezed into a smaller well (and the wells are smaller in these newest cases, I measured it, 6 13/16th in. width by 10 1/4 height in the new case versus 6 15/16th in. width by 10 5/16th height in the previous case, pic included for example), there would be added pressure on the book.  I know the difference is slight, but it is certainly enough to as least be a possible cause.

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 1:40 AM, Tony S said:

Or it COULD BE that the book had waves when sent to sent to CGC. That the slab HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.....

here are the grading notes....
 

 

Grader Notes:multiple bend spine breaks color
small, multiple tear left bottom of front cover
 

So, if anything the grader's notes would tend to discount your hypothesis, as they make no mention of the waviness.  But I do appreciate your forking over the 5 bucks, that was pretty cool of you.  Maybe you could have said, "Hey Dr. Fate, you cheapy , why don't you spend the 5 bucks and check the grader's notes?"  ;o)

17 hours ago, Mio said:

Sealing the edges was a bad idea. Any keeper books of mine come out of the new holder, as hard as it is to do.

Newton rings continue to be an unsightly problem.

They sure are; at this point I think CGC should just throw in the towel and go back to the old design.  They could simply expand the size of the well to what it was two designs ago and use materials in the sleeve and slab that don't interact and cause visible effects.

I appreciate the input, sad to see I'm not the only one having this problem with this particular type of slab.  Can't understand why they just don't go back to two designs ago and leave it at that.  I like how sturdy the new holders are, but the same material could simply be used in constructing innocuous slabs.

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 7:10 AM, entalmighty1 said:

I'd just go ahead and call CGC and tell them you're sending it back.  Why risk doing permanent damage to the book when they'll reslab it for free?

Well, of course I'd be concerned that they would simply put it in the same type of holder that may be causing the anomaly.

The waviness refuses to show up on any pic I can take.  The book has to be held at a certain angle to see it, which if you have experience with waviness in a slab you'll understand what I mean.  Anyway, I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone.  I'm interested in getting input from others who may have had a similar experience with the newest GCG holders.  I included a pic to show the type of slab I'm referring to.

I just received a lovely Journey Into Mystery #90 CGC 8.0 certified on 11/07/2016 and since it was slabbed after June 2016 it has the revamped holder with the well.  It exhibits the telltale waviness on the back (horizontal and a few vertical) that has been characteristically seen in books encased in the previous type slab (April-June 2016), not severe at all, but noticeable.

Has anyone else experienced this with current (newest) CGC holders?  I'm wondering what the devil could be causing it--are the wells too constricting, or the Mylar sleeves too tight?  Of course I would rather not have to crack it out, but it's a relatively scarce book in higher grades so of course I'd like it keep it as undisturbed as possible.

Ebay is absolutely wonderful for buyers and not so great for sellers, what with the listing fees, final value fees (hey, I know they gotta bring in the moolah), but worst is the fact that sellers cannot provide negative feedback as I recall.  I think that's crazy.  I guess the thinking is, the buyer can't really screw the seller very badly because the seller won't ship out the item until the buyer pays for it, whereas the seller could really screw the buyer by not shipping the item after it's been paid for.  But there are more than a few a-hole buyers.

But Ebay really is the perfect business model--if you're a seller, you want to sell where the most people possible will see your listings, and if you're a buyer, you want to go where there are the most sellers so that you can find whatever you're looking for, and also in many cases there'll be several sellers selling the same thing (gold and silver bullion, for example) so you'll get the best price as they compete with each other.

A few suggestions...

If you know how to grade comic books, pick up a copy of the Overstreet Price Guide, and that will give you some idea of what your comics are worth in the grade you have them.  If you don't know how to grade, take your comics to a reputable comic shop and they will give you an idea of their grade, and will also recommend whether to have them certified.

The two most important benefits of certification are an expert(s)-assigned grade that just about everyone will accept and an assurance that the book has not had restoration work done to it.  I feel that it is absolutely essential to have any major key book certified primarily for the latter reason...major keys are very valuable and important and therefore are that much more likely to have had restoration work done to them.  Books that are not so valuable or important can still merit certification if they are in particularly high grade...it seems that even Booster Gold in 9.9 would command a decent price.

Ultimately you have to consider whether the cost of certification and shipping will be worth it.  Sending in a mid-grade $50 book is a waste of money.  Generally the more valuable a book is the greater the benefit of having it certified.  Personally I will not consider purchasing a very expensive book that is uncertified, no matter how good the deal may seem.

18 hours ago, tv horror said:

Thanks for posting those covers I love them and it's about time instead of the standard few of Marvel classic Silver age titles. There's just something more innocent about the monsters and those clearly made up names, maybe Stan's typewriter had a sticky key?.

Yes, there seemed to be almost a requirement that the silly monster's name had to include multiple r's and g's...I think if the silly monster era had not ended when it did, we would have seen "Let the world beware!  GGGGGGGG is on the loose!"  And the puny human is saying, "We must flee!  If we stand around trying to figure out how to pronounce his name we'll most assuredly end up trying to outdo each other with planet-obliterating hyperbole!"  And of course GGGGGGGG looks like a pile of...

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 2:49 PM, Straw-Man said:

ff 12 should be one of everybody's faves!

Magnificent, and pretty nicely centered for an issue that almost never seems to be.

2 hours ago, trmoore54 said:

VERY NICE!!   I've been jonesing for some time now for a 9.0...

I know how you feel, what a pleasure it would be to own one that really could be right off the newsstand.

9 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

That's a lot of fun  thanks for the chuckles...

@Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet

My pleasure!

Those are hilarious Unca, thank you!  Only a few of those are mine, I hope to have a great silly monster collection one day.

No, he does want us to escape, that's why he's chasing us you dipstick.

"Heaven help me, it's true!  There's an upside down large green carrot at my window!"

"Mom, Moomba is here!"

"Ok, tell him I'll be right out!"

Look at that guy's face...well, look at both their faces.

Previously he had been hunted by "G" the thing that did not live, but "G" wasn't much of a threat.

"His very name made mankind giggle"

Well, technically, he who made a Dutch creature.

Your recriminations are not helping...

Hey Blip, I think the radar screen's calling ya'...