PovertyRow

I cannot agree with this statement, it's too general. Putting a book in a mylar is a "process that improves the appearance of the book." No, putting a book in mylar PRESERVES the apearance of the book. You seem to ignore, Timely, the basic premise that restoration UNDOES something. Putting a book in mylar may PREVENT something, but it does not UNDO anything. I really do not get this. And my ideas are not general, they are quite specific. As i have said about the Church collection - and been corrected by you but you did not answer my questions - the Church books put in stacks did not have the chance to accumulate many of the handling defects. The stacks PREVENTED the handling defects. They did not UNDO already accumulated handling defects. And it is that quality that makes the Church collection so special. These are books that due to their storage and handling conditions were, at least when first seen by Chuck, quite special. But what happened to them? They were moved and lifted and crated and driven and removed form the driven vehicle and uncratted and sorted and listed etc. That handling is gonna do SOME damage - so no wonder, as you said, many of your Church books were in need of pressing or were pressed etc. Did you see them at Chruich's place? Do you know how they looked before they were moved? Your question about having two 9.4 books in front of you, one pressed and one not pressed, is a loaded question. First of all, if I was told which one was pressed and which was not I'd pick the unpressed one, and so would everyone else on the planet...all other things being equal. Why? Because for all I know the unpressed 9.4 could turn into a pressed 9.8! To this I honestly have to say WTF? Are you serious? So you would take a true, untouched 9.4 and have it pressed in the hopes of a 9.8? I really do not understand that logic. Actually it pisses me off. The books would no longer be a 9.4 nor a 9.8. It would be a "Pressed 9.8". Now CGC may not think so but *I* (or YOU) would KNOW so - and that doesn't bother you? That you know you have books in your collection that took a pressing to get an even higher CGC blue label? So let me ask this: 2 books - both CGC 9.8. One pressed from a 9.4 to 9.8 (using your scenario). The other 9.8 needing NO PRESSING. Which would you choose and why? Like many others here you seem to be missing the question - IS PRESSING RESTO? I say yes. I have read absolutely nothing to dissuade me from that except for potential scams where we can get an untouched HG book and make it even higher in CGC's eye by pressing. So what if it does make it higher in CGC's eyes? Does that somehow NOT make it restoration because they cannot detect it? Or do you prefer to have a fantasy collection made up of books modified in ways that CGC cannot detect, knowing that changes have been made to the books, but feeling warm and fuzzy because - well - right now - in 2004 - CGC says they are blue label?

The correlation is that writing on a book is not considered a defect anymore than a date stamp is? Writing on a book (disregarding retail writing where the "date stamp" or arrival info can also be writing as oppsoed to a stamp) - any writing on a book from a buyer/owner whatever IS a defect. Where did you pick up tghat writing on a book is not a defect??????? Regarding picking the unpressed book instead of an identical pressed book, that just makes sense as the right answer. But I wouldn't feel any different owning the pressed book in my collection. Again - you are trying to create a definition of restoration. WHAT makes sense as the right answer? The unpressed book does. So WHY unpressed vs pressed with all else being equal? It is important you answer this piece of the puzzle.

But the fact that one book is pressed and one isn't, is so far down on my priority list of things to factor into purchasing a comic that it is ALMOST irrelavent to me OK - it is far down your list - but WHY would you take the unpressed book? Regarding the date stamp issue, what about someones name on a book? That definitely occured AFTER manufacturing and distribution. Obviously, CGC doesn't deem this restoration. A name written on a book happens after-retail. A date stamp happens before retail. The name is a defect. The date stamp, especially in older books when the date stamps were much more common, is part of the pre-retail process. Not sure what you are getting at here. I see no correlation at all between a date stamp and a name written on the book. And what about erasing pencil writing from a book? I still don't see how that ISN'T restoration? But CGC doesn't deem it restoration. Heck. I have ALWAYS said any erasure is restoration. I really do not care what CGC says is or is not restoration. The fact they allow amateur scotch tape on a blue label kind of says it all. CGC tends to look not at the reality of restoration processes but at the history of comic books. Only problem with that is that the history of paper restoration goes back a lot further than the history of comic book restoration. I have overall confidence for CGC to report on the label most restorative processes. But the ability for CGC to report on the label restoration has absolutely NO bearing on their credibility as to what actually comprises restration. They are very different subjects.

Understand my position on PRESSING. I believe if a book has been pressed and the defects (i.e. non-color breaking creases) have been removed permanently (not covered up like with a color touch), then I DON'T CARE. OK - I cna accept that - but you are applying your personal opinion on what is a definition of restoration. I am too but I agree with mine more than yours! Now as far as eye appeal goes - I was going to add a bit about that but figured it would be too much - so now I will add it. You have two CGC 9.4 books. Both have identical eye appeal. Centering is perfect on both (yes, it happens). Staples pristine. Colors rich. No writing etc. Just two plain old books that are 9.4 with nothing to seperate one from the other excpet you know one is pressed and one is not. Which would you choose (for the same money) and why? Also - as far as date stamps go - Yes they ADD something to the book but they add something pre-retail. They are part of the distribution/retail process. A date stamp happens before the book is put on the shelf for sale. I can't see them as a defect because they were a part of the process that got them to the retail market. As far as too large or poorly placed ones - well- that is a QP matter up to the buyer. But I do not fee they should be considered a defect as they are part of the book's journey to a reader's hands. They also can provide good information on exactly when a book was printed/distributed. I like them if they are not too big or improperly placed. But that is simply a value judgement.

To counter that argument, I have always deemed Restoration to be adding or subtracting material from a book to improve the appearance. Pressing doesn't add or subtract material To bring the thread back to reality . I disagree that restoration has to add or subtract material to improve the appearance. For two reasons: 1) Sometimes restoration is done not to improve the appearance but to improve the structural integrity or longevity of a book. A piece of archival tape or japan paper used to seal a tear doesn't improve the appearnce. It brings its own "look" to the book. But it does improve the structural integrity of the book. And a tear seal is restoration, I think we all (or most) agree. 2) I agree with your definition if you remove "adding or subtracting material". The proper definition of restoration, in my opinion, is any process that improves the appearance or structural integrity of the book. This includes pressing. Why do high grade books command so much more money? The answer is so blatant but so often ignored. It is because the odds of a book, and especially SA and GA, surviving intact in a raw, untouched high grade are quite slim. (Barring warehouse finds). These books, untouched by any process, deserve a special place simple because they have survived. Now I am not talking about how detectable a restoration is. I find the idea that "if you cannot detect the restoration it isn't" - an idea so often used with pressing - to be abhorrent. The book's history is ignored in this instance. The fact that a book has actually survived 40 or 50 years intact, with no reversal, is ignored. But it is what makes a truly HG untouched book so special. However, since restoration brings with it such overwhelming negative connotations, folks are starting to seperate certain restorative processes (such as pressing) from the definition of restoration. Suppose you were presented with two identical books. Both are in CGC 9.4 blue labels. Both are the same price. But you happen to know that one had been pressed and the other hadn't. You can choose either one. Which one would you choose and why?

Excellent! Most excellent!

I recommend practising on your expensive copies. That way, when your ready to do the moderns, you'll know what your doing OK - that was

3) You take the book back out of the mylar and FLIP the CORNER PIECE back down. This probably leaves a small crease line at the corner but of course the appearance of the book looks a lot better than when the corner was folded back. IS THIS RESTORATION? Nope. The reason is that the position of the fold is not the issue. The issue is the CREASE. And you know what? Folding that crease back to center actually increases (pardon the pun) the damage. In paper there is (or at least used to be) a gauge for brittleness where the number of times a piece of paper can be folded back and forth (your corner example is great for this) until the corner "breaks off". Each successive fold and refold further impacts the structure of the ppaer (negatively). So your gently unfolding the corner actually does so a tad more damage. But it is not restoration, because it is the crease itself that would need to be restored.

You guys gave me a great idea! I'm going to hit the hay early tonight, and read a couple Weird Science EC reprints before I fall asleep. Well I gotta say that sounds pretty good! I think I will pull out a couple of my pre-codes and have a nice read tonight!

How is that possible if you joined these boards on 3/23/2004? Hammer was banned on 5/23/2003? You got some explainin' to do! Er... that is... um... ah... This was Pre-Crisis continuity! Yes! That was Golden Age Clark Khaos! He was lost at the edge of time before the beginning of time with KhaosBoy, Golden Age Lois Khaos, and Khaos Mutt, Chimp, and Khat. But you cannot possibly remember that as only very select members of the press were allowed to journey back there to witness the event. And Hammer. Yes, select members of the press and one or two comic book trimmers. Wait, no. Hammer wasn't there. This happened before Hammer existed, but it brought about the exchange in which he did NOT tell me that because I did not exist on the board before when he had told me that the day after yesterday. See? Now, let us never speak of this again. My lord you ARE a shill account!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kudos to Shiverbones for the excellent Phantom Witch Doctor (Avon 1-shot)!!! Very smooth transaction.

First one to answer correctly wins a no-prize. Verification of the winner by Joanna. Hmmm - let's put it to a vote!

There are a lot of great lines in Crisis but there's always one line that REALLY gets me: "Man, I hate dealing with fleshies," he mumbles to the raccoon.

Kudos to PrecodeKeith. Sent him a check last week for an extra back issue of 1 & 2 and a couple of the new #3 of his foolishly fun fanatical fanzine Horror Comics Review. The books arrived so fast and in perfecto condition! Also Kudos to Keith for dedicating himself to the cause and also for, as he did in #3, praising other fanzines. Keith is doing a tremendous job!

Sometimes freelancing SUCKS! I have to tell you Joanna - I lived the freelance life for a couple of years and it finally beat me down. I am sorry to hear of the setback - such things are always discouraging and are also so indicative of the freelance life. I can depend on my bi-monthly paycheck. I can make spare cash selling etc but even if I sell nothing this month, my paycheks cover all expenses and more. I have so much respect for those that do freelance and can continue. Maybe not in style, maybe eating cereal at times instead of lobster, but on their own terms. More power to you! And I wish you much success! It is deserved.

Shiv, that Spellbound 17 is one of my all time favorite Atals covers too.

Pah! Sprots!

Because none of the men feel capable of ambulation And there are those that say the written word is dead!

Done... Now if only I could request a pic of the one that Metro has. As I understand it they only send scans for items over $500 Ask them anyway - and they have been adding live scans of their books so if you haven;t looked in a while peek back to their web site!

Seems impossible to assess from the scan. The bottom of the book is completely cut off so no way to assess the rest of the condition. Luckily 3 days left so shoot them an email and request a larger, full scan of the whole thang!

Hard for me to say - except for refusing to pay too much for even a "classic" pre-code horror cover, I tend to think in terms of why I got the book and what I like about it. (not a value judgement at all). So I really can't say one way or the other - but I bet others here can. To me, if you want to sell them and replace with maybe slabbed Bluw labels, I would check the "unrestorers" and see how much an unrestore would cost, maybe get a feel for what garde it may get in Blue label, then either decide to keep or sell and get a blanket blue label (but you never know if the next blue label you get will be unrestored). Man am I gald I don;t have a slabed collection. I swear I would go more nuts than I am!

My gawd that is one amazing cover! A mix of pre-code horror, crime and romance. It is now on my want list! Won't fill a slot in my pr-code horror type set but man - gotta have that one!

So yea, I called the guy and he guarantees me 100% that he did not touch up the books. I still believe him, as I have dealt with him many times before. Any idea if the books were obtained by the dealer from the same collector? That may be one answer.

I confess the idea of Joanna and FF never ever crossed my mind! JLA? Yeah. JSA? Sure! FF? Nah!

Joanna! You know I love to quote especially nice bits form your CRISIS but I cannot - if I did I would have to quote about half of it! And thank you for the effort! We know you are working on other things that are life-sustaining.