@therealsilvermane

Here is the first trailer for Civil War. It certainly looks like a Captain America movie to me from this trailer.

Obviously we're never going to see eye to eye on this debate. I'll give one last post though explaining why Civil War is distinctly a Captain America movie and not an Avengers movie, even though it's officially part of the Captain America sub-franchise. I advise you to watch Civil War like I did recently. First the obvious, it has Captain America in the freaking title. Also, nowhere in Civil War do we hear the familiar Avengers theme as in actual Avengers movies. It's Captain America music in Civil War. @Gatsby77 Civil War begins with Bucky, a Captain America character, being brainwashed to prepare for an assassination. We then get the Lagos Avengers mission with Cap in charge. The Avengers are in this movie because he is the leader of the Avengers. That's his life and there's not much else. Yes, we do segue to a long scene with Tony Stark (which accounts for most of the Stark minutes that theCapraAg references), but this scene serves mostly to introduce his mother(who gets killed, adding to Stark's thirst for revenge) and to establish Stark's position on oversight which will conflict with Cap's position. After these scenes with Stark, the primary times we see Stark are when he is an antagonist to Steve Rogers. Twice when Stark tries to get Steve to sign the Accords and another two times when Stark is physically fighting Steve over apprehending Bucky at the airport or trying to kill Bucky in Siberia. We don't even see Stark in his Iron Man suit until one and a half hours into the movie at the airport battle. Stark has a solo scene with Peter Parker, but the purpose of this scene to the story is so that Stark can obtain another obstacle (Spider-Man) to Steve's mission. The battle at the airport is totally about Team Iron Man, under orders from General Ross, to apprehend Bucky. So for the majority of the hour and a half of Civil War before the airport scene, the movie's bulk is composed of scenes that: A. Involve Steve Rogers personal life (the death of Peggy Carter and romancing Sharon Carter ew) B. Involve Zemo, a CA villain attempting to frame and manipulate Bucky, Captain Rogers' best friend. C. Involve Bucky, Cap's best friend, running from the law and being chased/saved by Cap (a scene that mirrors the end of WInter Soldier when Bucky saves Steve). Throughout Civil War, Steve Rogers and Tony Stark are not equals story-wise. The bulk of the film involves either Steve's personal life or characters like Zemo or Bucky who are tied to Captain America's world. Cap's mission in Civil War, to find out who is behind framing Bucky is the main goal of the movie. Tony Stark, General Ross, and Zemo are the obstacles to that mission. Yes, the ideological differences of oversight are there, but Tony and Steve would still have been at odds over Bucky with or without the Sokovia Accords. That Natasha helps Steve and Bucky escape and Tony briefly aids Steve and Bucky in Siberia shows you how much they really care about the Accords and government oversight. Stark is ready to aid them 100% until he learns that Bucky killed his parents. The movie ends with Steve Rogers freeing the arrested Avengers and post credit scene is Steve and Bucky in Wakanda. Captain America Civil War is 100% a Captain America movie. If you are still in denial, watch the movie again with my above points in mind and you will see that I'm right.

Aw, who's going to constantly accuse me of stoking the Marvel vs DC debate when I hardly mention DC at all because they're not worth mentioning? I hope someone steps up. Meanwhile, getting back to my argument...

Gosh, what am I gonna do without all the sarcastic laugh and confused emojis in my life? Meanwhile, let "us" get back to real constructive talk about Black Widow which soon circles back to how this movie's gonna suck, Disney is greedy, and "I" don't care about this movie. What. Ever.

A Frighful Four led by evil genius Bentley Witman as a kind of anti-Reed Richards in the MCU is a very distinct possibility. If Marvel could make Batroc the Leaper work on film, I bet they could do the same for Paste Pot Pete, the perfect extinguishing antidote for the Human Torch.

Ha ha...okay, let me go drop a couple grand on a psychiatrist and tell him/her "Before it starts to endanger the friends and family around me, it's been suggested I get professional help because I act like the Marvel Cinematic Universe is the #1 movie franchise in the world and the most entertaining on this comic book collectors forum I visit online. Wait, you agree with me?"

Am I going on the Suicide Squad Redux thread and making unwarranted negative comments against it before anybody's seen it just to spread negativity? No. I'm doing it on the Black Widow thread. Not trolling.

Looking at the 2021 summer slate after July 4th, I think Black Widow is the only "required viewing" movie. I mean it's the only franchise movie with a devoted following that millions of people are eagerly awaiting and who have to watch it. Not to say there aren't good movies coming out, but Black Widow is guaranteed to bring the biggest audience that theaters have seen since the pandemic began. Us Marvel fans(casual and hardcore) want our lives back, and part of that means watching a MCU movie debut in a movie theater (not on Disney+). A big part of my prediction is consecutive weeks of large audience turnout for Black Widow that creates a pattern. When that happens and happens safely and everybody figures out that maybe it is safe to go back to the movies, that will most likely keep a large enough segment of moviegoers coming back through the summer to watch all these less "required viewing" movies (like Suicide Squad Redux...eye roll) and that saves the movie theater industry.

I have a feeling, just a feeling, that neither Doom, Namor, Galactus, nor Silver Surfer will make their debut in a Fantastic Four film. Skrulls, so connected to the FF, already made their debut in Captain Marvel. Blastaar, on the other hand, I could totally see that guy in a FF movie. But maybe the sequel. I'm calling Annihilus as the villain in the FF's MCU debut.

Fast and the Furious is a popular franchise but really owes a lot to China where it's really really popular, and where F9 is getting bad word of mouth. Apparently it's not that good a movie? And nobody in America really cares about F9 getting delayed since last year and nobody here cares that it's already opened in China. Black Widow, on the other hand, could you imagine the uproar here in the states if Disney opened BW in China a week before opening here after this delay? Could you imagine the internet uproar if Chinese moviegoers gave BW the thumbs down and that it was bad? Hordes of moviegoers have marked Black Widow's release date as the weekend they return to the movies. Not so much Fast and the Furioso Part 36.

Again, even though this was part of Disney's official marketing written by the marketing team, it doesn't give away the actual plot of the movie as written by the film's writers. It doesn't give away that the actual reason Tony Stark and Steve Rogers are physically fighting and cause the break-up of the Avengers in the end is over Steve protecting Bucky after he got framed by Zemo, not because of disagreements over government oversight.

On the other hand, Chad, the Iron Man cosplayer, is the protagonist of this little movie, because Angus won't stop being a jerk.

Just because Disney or whoever wrote this blurb for Civil War to try to get people to watch the movie doesn't mean this is the logline the writers used when writing the movie or what the directors always referenced when directing the story for camera. This VUDU movie description could describe the argument the Avengers are having when they're first introduced to the Accords at the group meeting with General Ross at the start of the movie. After that, it's all about Captain America sticking up for his friend Bucky when all the other super-heroes and police are trying to apprehend Bucky. And while the Avengers breaking up was an important reason for the existence of this movie (so that Thanos could more easily defeat them), the break-up was more an end of movie consequence of Stark feeling betrayed by Steve Rogers because of, you guessed it, Bucky. Not the Segovia Accords.

Yeah, and this description isn't what the movie is really about. The Avengers are pitted in physical combat against each other because Captain America is protecting Bucky who got framed for something he didn't do. Team Iron Man and Team Cap aren't fighting on the streets of Bucharest or at the airport or at the abandoned HYDRA base because of an ideological difference about government oversight and accountability. They're fighting over Bucky. And in this fight, Steve Rogers is right and Tony Stark is wrong. Stark even admits he was wrong until they start fighting over Bucky again after Stark sees the security video of his parents getting killed.

Here's a Verge interview with the Civil War writers who discuss the importance of the Steve Rogers-Bucky relationship to the movie... "The relationship between Steve Rogers and his best friend, Bucky, drives this movie. It’s largely based on emotion, and it feels personal. As writers, was there anything personal you two were pulling from when writing that relationship, beyond what’s already in the comics? CM: I mean, there’s always been [the fact that] I am a bad team player. SM: Get the quotes right! "Chris Markus says…" CM: I don’t mean that I can’t work with others. I just mean that growing up, I never liked sports. I never liked pep rallies. I found school spirit hard to deal with. I am much more oriented towards the individual. And so there is something resonant with me about someone trying desperately to keep the team together. Maybe I’d want to question, "Why is the team so important to you?" But you know, it feels personal every time we’re writing about Captain America because he has so little, in a weird way. I don’t mean he has so little to give, I mean just the makeup of his personality. He’s not the kind of guy who allows himself the indulgence of personal needs. So with the death of Peggy Carter — one thing that relates back to who he originally was — I have this incredible empathy [for him because] he doesn’t want to let Bucky go. Because Bucky’s it. Bucky’s the last part of the real Steve Rogers, in a way. He’s not just fighting because "This is my best friend." He’s fighting because, "I will be fully adrift from everything." The writers don't necessarily say that Civil War is or isn't an Avengers movie, but this answer shows how important Steve Rogers' inner world was to the main story of Civil War. This is Steve sticking up for his best friend the way Bucky stuck up for him in First Avenger. Only this time, instead of a back-alley bully or a bunch of disillusioned Army soldiers (when Bucky says "let's hear it for Captain America"), Steve is protecting his best friend against the might of Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

In 25 words or less, the main plot of Civil War the movie wasn't "Iron Man must stop Captain America who is acting against the law and protecting a possible murderer." It wasn't "T'Challa must track down the man who killed his father." It wasn't "Peter Parker disobeys his Aunt and follows a super-hero around the Earth in a heart-stopping adventure." The main plot, in 25 words or less, is "Steve Rogers must find out who framed his best friend Bucky while both are being hunted by Cap's former team, the Avengers." Yes, there are still scenes where other characters like Stark recruit Peter Parker or where Wanda and Vision have a lover's quarrel, but the reason they do these things is in reaction to Steve Rogers boldy taking the initiative to believe that Bucky didn't do this horrendous act that all the world thinks he did. I'm not the one being delusional or out of touch with reality here. I get why y'all think Civil War is an Avengers movie, but I'm also clearly stating here how and why Civil War is Captain America's movie. You could have stuffed the X-Men and the Fantastic Four into that movie, but if the story was still Steve Rogers correctly trying to find out who framed Bucky while everyone else is either trying to stop him or help him, than it's still Steve Rogers' story no matter how many super-heroes are in it.

Nuh-uh. Captain America Civil War (the movie) only partly took from its comic book counterpart, just like Infinity War/Endgame only partly took from its comic counterpart. Yes, the comic book Civil War was a true crossover event with two heroes on two different sides and each with a legitimate stake in that side. The Civil War movie was not that at all. The only way it compared like the comic, it started with an international disaster for the world to see and had Tony and Steve with two different idealogical stances to government oversight. The rest of the 75% of the movie is a big misunderstanding by everyone not on Cap's team about who bombed the UN building and killed T'Chaka. Civil War the comic book wasn't a big frame-up concocted by Zemo to pit every superhero in the world against each other. Civil War the movie was. There was one main protagonist in Civil War the movie, Steve Rogers. He's the one trying to figure out who's really behind the UN bombing. Everyone else not on Team Cap has their mind made up that Bucky is the villain. The comic book and the movie were two very different stories. And the movie was still mainly Steve Rogers' story.

Civil War was not an Avengers movie. It was a Captain America movie. Yeah, the Avengers were in it, but it was still Steve Rogers' movie and story. Mr. Rogers doesn't have much of a life outside SHIELD and the Avengers. His life is the mission. He's a soldier. So it makes sense that First Avenger is all US Army, that Winter Soldier is all SHIELD, and that Civil War is all Avengers. That's his life. But the basic story is still Steve Rogers as the protagonist who is trying to find out who actually framed his best friend Bucky when the whole world including Stark and T'Challa are just trying to kill Bucky. Barton, Natasha, and Sam are there as a supporting cast to help Steve while everyone else is wrongly against him, including Peter Parker. Avengers movies, besides being an official part of the Avengers franchise (within the larger MCU franchise) are true ensemble movies with no main protagonist. The Avengers are the protagonist. In Civil War, there is one main protagonist, Steve Rogers. The Avengers and others like Spider-Man and Black Panther are just supporting cast members. Most likely that will be the case in The Marvels. Carol will be the emotional lead and it will be her story and Kamala and Monica will be supporting cast members along with any other Avengers who are appearing of which I'm sure there'll be some as this will probably be the movie that establishes Carol Danvers as the head of the Avengers' space division (Sam Wilson will take the land).

But...but...it had Captain America in the title. I thought that was so important to you guys whether it's that character's movie or not (see: The Marvels). Yes, Civil War was a mini-Avengers movie, but Captain America was still the lead and the story revolved around everybody trying to catch Bucky, Cap's best friend. Cap was in the right and his is the last face we see before the credits roll. It's still Cap's movie. You know what was also a mini-Avengers movie btw? Winter Soldier (two regular Avengers, the Avengers founder, and two future Avengers if you count Bucky), Ragnarok (two regular Avengers and if you count Valkyrie, a future Avenger), and Captain Marvel (the guy who founded the Avengers and the her-o who inspired their name).

Uh...thanks...?

Thor was the emotional lead and the main character in Ragnarok, but it was still a team-up movie of Thor, Hulk, Loki, and Val. Steve Rogers was the emotional lead and the main character in Civil War (Tony Stark and Zemo were the antagonists) even though it was obviously a team-up movie of every Avenger except Thor and Hulk.

July 9th for movie theaters across America is going to be like the prom scene in Back to the Future where Marty McFly suddenly perks back to life after George gives Lorraine the first kiss on the dance floor. Kong and Quiet Places Part Deux helped a little but half of Marty's torso is still missing. Black Widow's kiss is going to bring the movie theater industry roaring back to life.

How was Ragnarok not a team-up of Thor, Hulk, Loki, and Valkyrie? It even had Dr Strange. It was a Silver Surfer debut short of being a Defenders movie.

Yes, Iron Man was better received than First Avenger, obviously. But Cap had a chance to make up for his lackluster first movie in The Avengers. He did somewhat, but Joss still wrote Steve to be a sourpuss and gave the better lines and role to Tony Stark. After Winter Soldier, folks(not all but many) started preferring Captain America over Iron Man, especially after Civil War. Cap ended up having better movies. The audiences go with what the filmmakers give us.

People preferred Tony over Steve in The Avengers because Joss Whedon obviously had a favorite and wrote the movie that way. Tony Stark was the charming hero against the system while Steve Rogers was the unfunny old-fashioned jerk who tries to boss Tony around and who doesn't think God dresses like Thor. The Russo Bros and the Captain America writers fixed that.