sledgehammer

On 2/1/2024 at 2:16 PM, Samlarn72 said:

1.8 said the seller on ebay 2007

She sold this in November.

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4315025006/

on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186160888680?_trksid=p2471758.m4703

@Samlarn72

On 2/1/2024 at 1:15 PM, Samlarn72 said:

Is there a list of the stolen books?

I was wondering if my missing ff5 

What grade was it?

On 1/27/2024 at 6:30 PM, comicstock said:

Many years ago they had a Skyman #4 raw graded 8.5.

I called and asked for a discount and they said they'd give free shipping but that was it.

That was fine and i bought the book.

I sent it into CGC and got it back as a 9.0.

I guess that worked out okay...

Do they just call everything VF+?

Mine came back 7.0.

On 1/30/2024 at 12:07 PM, awe4one said:

Comicwiz, this is yeoman work here. Very impressive research. If this is an inside job has anyone looked at comics being replaced upon their first submission? Again, I’ve pulled a fair amount of comics out of their slabs and there is no way I could reassemble them in their slab without anyone noticing. This is a bad look on CGC.

Jim

there has been an effort, not to name the store, because they're really is not at this point definitive evidence to link the eBay sellers that sold the books involved on eBay, and other selling venues, with that store. There is circumstantial evidence, that I would seriously consider betting my life that they are involved. 

The thing about this is that it completely appears within the realm of possibility, that there is a pressing service that could also be involved under the umbrella.

Although it is quite possible, that comicwiz is putting together a substantial body of evidence in other ways, it's completely possible that a portion of the business plan here, was pressing lower grade books, into higher grade books.

Personally, I would not be surprised to find out that the vast majority of amazing Spider-Man 300, 9.8 newstand copies, are the result of pressing work.

I can't recall seeing many in the earlier generation slabs.

On 1/30/2024 at 12:05 AM, Lightning55 said:

"CGC will retain your book as evidence"???

What if you don't want them to keep your property

If you are the owner, you should decide who gets to keep your property.

If those are the terms under which you are submitting for a Holder Review, and you agree with the terms, then I guess that's the way it is.  Might be a tough decision for some. 

But I don't know if you have much choice.  You do need to know what is in the case.

All of this language sounds like legalese to me, mainly designed to make sure that scamboy no longer profits from anything.

There is a chance that he is still holding books that he submitted. Any of them that CGC identifies by cert # of his submissions ( and that number may be much higher than "the list" at this point already) will be permanently marked until they decide to clear them.

Receipts just document that he is not trying to clear them through intermediaries. Wouldn't you guess that he is not one of their favorite people right now?

I doubt very much that someone that wants their property back, that documents a sale, will get a beef about having it returned.

On 1/29/2024 at 12:51 PM, topcat54 said:

I was also wondering why this book was not on the list? #  3786339003

 

why do you think that it should be?

On 1/29/2024 at 2:35 PM, awe4one said:

How do you get the label out of the inner slab?
 

Jim

how many of the 377 pages have you read so far?

On 1/29/2024 at 8:22 AM, awakeintheashes said:

When I pull up 3752510001, I get an ASM 194

It was a lazy sunday for me. 

I guess we'll find out what the odds are that somebody could pop that many ASM 300 9.8s, and even more if you look at this complete submission, also on the list, and sold on comiclink a few months after submission for over $6K.

3743694005

Here that one is in the ASM 300 thread.

On 1/29/2024 at 7:40 AM, Sigur Ros said:

Yea, I can't imagine it would be needed, it's just the way it was phrased was as if a receipt was required to get things moving.

It pretty clearly says that. Too bad this has been going on for at least FIVE FREAKING YEARS!

On January 12, 2021, the same store posts image on facebook showing six- 9.8 ASM 300s, with the comment "Behold!!!...."  

2 of them have custom labels.  Cert #s are not clear. None are newsstand.

On December 3, 2020, there was a submission with the following 5 cert #s (at least), 4 of them are ASM 300  9.8.

3752510001   ASM  300 no notes

3752510002   ASM  300 on the fraud list  no notes

3752510003   ASM 300  grader's note "very light spine stress lines to cover "

3752510004    "Poof"  It's gone now.

3752510005   ASM 300  on the fraud list  no notes

3752510006    Poof??  no book for this number, or any other #s that could have potentially been in this submission.

2 books with custom labels, 2 books on the fraud list.

Here is the 005 notes, and a zoom in photo of what I am positive is that copy. It's blurry, but it ends in  005.  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/3752510005/

This is the closest I've seen to evidence that the store was touching books on the list, very close to the submission date. Each of the other books, was a yellow label, and we have no idea what the reholder/custom label date was.

Pretty damn circumstantial, but that's all it is, until CGC tells us more. They're only questions, and they at least warrant being answered.

Thanks. I was sure this was another case of him submitting ONLY 5 or 6- 300s.

He was doing that often during that period.

This book is not on the list, but apparently is supposed to be, by the note to report.    ASM 300  9.8  3786339001 

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/3786339001/  

These two are part of the same submission, and are on the list 3786339002 ASM 300 9.8  and 3786339004  ASM 300  9.8 (sold May 8, 2021 for $8,500 and then again on August 29, 2021 for $5,800).

3786339003 and 3786339005 are also both ASM 300, 9.8., but not on the list.

On 1/28/2024 at 11:25 AM, comicjel said:

I am pretty sure that is a "screened" book - being rejected for whatever grade is being screened for (prob 9.8).

It has been a while, but I remember reviewing grading notes on rejected screened books.

 

In my mind, it is one more indicator that someone at CGC was manipulating things for him.

On 1/28/2024 at 11:21 AM, comicjel said:

One aspect of this scam that might be happening is that once the scammer finds a nice book to use in the scam (either as the master 9.8 book or as the inferior swap-out book), if either of those books are "starting" in an old style inner well holder, they first need to get them into newer type inner well holders, before they can start using them in the scam - as such, there may be a lot of loose older style labels being returned to CGC by the scammer, and effectively being expunged from CGCs records.  

I don't think that it is only that. I found a quantity of 6, ASM 300 9.8 submission from late 2020, that I am positive is tied to the store, circumstantially.

A few of those cert #s are now "poof".

Does anyone know for sure, how many reasons there are that a cert # search would result in grade category "REJECT"?

How long has it been since they eliminated the minimum quantity for pre screen?  https://www.cgccomics.com/submit/services-fees/cgc-grading/

I saw a photo on a very relevant online site, of an ASM 300 9.8 ( not on the list), dated on the site as 11/19/20 of this cert #      3745003002

ASM 300  9.8   graded 11/11/20.

grader's notes, as of today, are "small light creasing center of front cover"

Another book in that submission is cert #  3745003001

11/11/20

ASM 300  grade: REJECT

grader's notes are  "spine stress lines break color"

I find that note interesting, considering how many times I'm seeing that exact note, on other 9.8 books on submissions that include books on the list.

On 1/27/2024 at 10:11 AM, shadroch said:

Unless you think the scammers started by submitting 9.8 books and didn't do any trial runs, you have no idea what slabs have been infected. 

Well, we do have an idea, and it includes a whole bunch of Incredible Hulk 181 comic books that weren't graded 9.8

A fact that makes the cavalier and nonchalant attitude from several people, about who this affects and how much, extremely hard to take as more than cheerleading.

On 1/27/2024 at 7:59 AM, Stefan_W said:

The following is a series of true statements about the scam:

 

- The vast majority of comic collectors do not own books that have been tampered with.

Do you think this language would be on their guarantee page, if there wasn't a reason for it to be?

5. CGC/CSG Holders. This Guarantee does not apply to Collectibles that have been removed from a CGC or CSG holder, or if the CGC or CSG holder containing a Collectible has been damaged, unsealed, tampered with, or altered. The determination as to whether this has occurred shall be at the sole reasonable discretion of Guarantor. Further, this Guarantee does not apply to counterfeit or tampered CGC or CSG holders.

On 1/22/2024 at 8:07 PM, wiparker824 said:

 

Kind of low for these books even if you add in CL’s 3% buyer premium. 

90 day GPA is $2688 for direct (8 sales), with the last sale being on HA 1/16 for $2760

90 day GPA is $2524 (only 2 sales) for newsstand with the last sale being on HA on 1/16 for $2640

Even so 4287881001 was the newsstand cert that isn’t on the list but is on the same submission as 4287881003 which is on the list and that’s the book that went for $200 more than the direct tonight. So I don’t know. 

You might want to take a look at what a horror show the cover of the book that sold on January 16th before you judge. It's a HORRIBLE miscut.

This WHITE page newsstand sale was a big collapse from what the vast majority of sales on GPA were last year.

How can we value any data, when a 9.8 reported $1,860 newsstand sale last July 29th, was this book, graded last year, with no mention of it being a newsstand in the notes?

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4235257002/ 

This is what I see as the problem with not knowing a timeline on when we will hear "who" CGC believes is behind this:

It seems to me to be an extreme example of a coincidence, that @mycomicshop would list 3-  9.8 ASM Newsstands right now, all from the same submission

I brought it up earlier that I would now be viewing submissions on books listed with a lot more scrutiny. The listing prices are quite high for the current market, but offers are being accepted

Here is what I see.

This cert, of a 9.6 newsstand, sold for the highest price (by quite a bit) of a 9.6 in 2023.  4144955001 sold on June 19th, 2023

I think that's intriguing ( and please, somebody check the sale if possible ) , considering the speculation on shill bidding in many of "scamboy's" auctions, when you consider this:

Here are the other books in that submission of 12/12/22:

4144955002  9.8  ASM  300 newsstand   https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_ii/originalimage/7181147.jpg

4144955003  9.8  ASM  300 newsstand  https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_ii/originalimage/7181145.jpg

4144955004  9.8  ASM  300 newsstand  

4144955005  9.6  ASM  300 newsstand

My opinion is, cert #s 002 and 003 seem to have some funky things going on to be considered 9.8.

They could also be post slabbing issues, I'm sure.

The 3- 9.8s were just listed. and I'm not saying @mycomicshop is doing anything wrong, make me curious if the consignor is from NY?

On your website, the consignor is Ironside Comics, of Texas. Are they possibly consigning for someone else?

I'm assuming the answer is MOST PROBABLY NOT, but do you guys have clarity, on who "scamboy" is, from CGC?

Until we get clarity, on exactly why this is limited to reholders/custom labels, it seems like it wouldn't be advisable to do business with "scamboy", if there's any doubt about the legitimacy of comic books that he owns??

Until we get clarity, and an understanding on how books were delivered to CGC in a way that this got past them?

Oh yea, curious what the second highest price was on a 9.6 newsstand in 2023??  It was this one, on January 1st 2023.  4140765015

That submission was on  11/11/2022, and included the following 3-ASM 300, 9.8s.

 4140765016, 4140765017 and 4140765018.

All 3 have the "very light spine stress lines to cover" grading notes.

There is going to be a big fog over this, until light is shown.

On 1/22/2024 at 8:48 AM, jas1vans said:

If CGC didn't catch the problem, and are playing catch-up to those who have, how can they confidently say how many books have been affected?

Annnnnd, we've hit one month since the last reported sale of a non-newsstand 9.8 ASM 300 on GPA.

You think you're dying to know when this will gain further clarity?

imagine how the two ebay sellers (one consigned) with newsstand 9.8 300s with asking prices over $20K feel.

5.5- 6.0

On 1/17/2024 at 11:49 AM, 360flip said:

yeah. That isn't following what their protocol is. That book should have a new cert. Also would have expected that book to have an image.

It sounds like the same thing that Comiclink reported about that he said that he looked at scans, and determined no swap had happened, and Avengers 57 was cleared.

Maybe heritage got the same clearance based on sales history and looking at scans.

On 1/17/2024 at 7:12 AM, GDN said:

Prices were certainly down on most 181 and 194s yesterday at HA.  Although a 194 had sold a bit lower in November.  Hard to separate out the continued general decline in prices from any effect the scandal may be having on them.

The number of reported sales of 9.8 ASM 238s and 300s on GPA in the last 30 days are microscopic. Not literally, but close.